The Swagger is almost back!!!

[Justice]

I'm counting the days! November is just around the corner. If the Bills continue to lose I'd like to see JP in be week 11. That leaves him with 6 games to play.

[Simon]

Why do y'all want this kid on the field.

Not only is he likely to get hurt again, but he's also probably going to be awful like every other rookie QB has ever been.

If Week 12 rolls around and we're out of the p'off picture the Bills should protect JP while he continues to learn and leave Drew in there in an attempt to improve their draft position ;-)

Cya

[Justice]

He needs experience. Let him make rookie mistakes in a year that doesn't matter and then next year he will be ready. You can't sit a guy because your afraid he might get hurt. Football doesn't work that way. You can't learn how to swim without getting in the water.

 

BTW. I'm willing to bet the O-Line doesn't look as bad with JP at QB

[Thailog80]

I certainly hope they don't toss JP to the wolves coming off a broken leg. The future needs to be protected better than that.

[Campy]

I certainly hope they don't toss JP to the wolves coming off a broken leg. The future needs to be protected better than that.

49148[/snapback]

 

Amen to that Thai

[Simon]

I'm willing to bet the O-Line doesn't look as bad with JP at QB

 

The OLine hasn't looked bad with Drew at QB either.

 

And rookie QB's absolutely can learn a lot by sitting their first year. It has been a succesful strategy recently for several different teams.

 

Not to mention the kid is coming off a broken leg. If it was a twisted knee or some bruised ribs, maybe you're more likely to think about it. But the boy just broke his leg and now is not the time to be throwing him into a pro game for the first time.

 

Cya

[Bill from NYC]

The OLine hasn't looked bad with Drew at QB either.

 

And rookie QB's absolutely can learn a lot by sitting their first year. It has been a succesful strategy recently for several different teams.

 

Not to mention the kid is coming off a broken leg. If it was a twisted knee or some bruised ribs, maybe you're more likely to think about it. But the boy just broke his leg and now is not the time to be throwing him into a pro game for the first time.

 

Cya

49158[/snapback]

 

You know, in game one I would tend to agree. The OL did look a tad improved, in that they looked like they sort of knew what they were doing.

In game two, even Big Mike played OK, but then was apparently victimized for at least one sack. That said, they are almost exclusively running short routes, which one would think require less protection, and they STILL have given up 8 or 9 sacks!

Imo, there are 3 problems:

1) Lack of cohesion. There are 2 new guys in there.

2) Sorry, overall lack of talent.

3) Travis Henry. Simon, I dont think that he needs to nor can turn into a Carwell Garner type tough guy overnight, but he is a very strong guy who is well capable of pitching in on pass protection. If he is unwilling to, or mentally incapable of blocking, I think that he should be promptly sat on the bench in favor of MaGahee. What is your take?

[Justice]

You know, in game one I would tend to agree. The OL did look a tad improved, in that they looked like they sort of knew what they were doing.

In game two, even Big Mike played OK, but then was apparently victimized for at least one sack. That said, they are almost exclusively running short routes, which one would think require less protection, and they STILL have given up 8 or 9 sacks!

Imo, there are 3 problems:

1) Lack of cohesion. There are 2 new guys in there.

2) Sorry, overall lack of talent.

3) Travis Henry. Simon, I dont think that he needs to nor can turn into a Carwell Garner type tough guy overnight, but he is a very strong guy who is well capable of pitching in on pass protection. If he is unwilling to, or mentally incapable of blocking, I think that he should be promptly sat on the bench in favor of MaGahee. What is your take?

49173[/snapback]

 

All of the above.

[buckeyebrian]

I certainly hope they don't toss JP to the wolves coming off a broken leg. The future needs to be protected better than that.

49148[/snapback]

Agree 100% - last rookie QB who had any success was Marino

[Mark VI]

Agree 100% - last rookie QB who had any success was Marino

49195[/snapback]

 

Agreed. If the season is shot, what's the rush ? He'll see some action in December and get his game experience, when fully healed.

[Justice]

Agree 100% - last rookie QB who had any success was Marino

49195[/snapback]

 

Ever hear of a guy named Peyton Manning? Or how about McNabb? He didn't start the season as a starter but he did finish the year a starter.

[Simon]

You know, in game one I would tend to agree. The OL did look a tad improved, in that they looked like they sort of knew what they were doing.

In game two, even Big Mike played OK, but then was apparently victimized for at least one sack. That said, they are almost exclusively running short routes, which one would think require less protection, and they STILL have given up 8 or 9 sacks!

Imo, there are 3 problems:

1) Lack of cohesion. There are 2 new guys in there.

2) Sorry, overall lack of talent.

3) Travis Henry. Simon, I dont think that he needs to nor can turn into a Carwell Garner type tough guy overnight, but he is a very strong guy who is well capable of pitching in on pass protection. If he is unwilling to, or mentally incapable of blocking, I think that he should be promptly sat on the bench in favor of MaGahee. What is your take?

 

Howdy Bill. I don't think it's fair or accurate to say that the OLine has given up 8or9 sacks. Of the 7 sacks the Raiders registered, only one of them was on the OLine (Big Mike's), the rest were on Sheltom, Henry, McGahee or Drew himself. Then they gave up one sack in the Jax game but I don't remember the play so I'm not sure who's man it was. So at worst the OLine itself has allowed 2 sacks in 2 games while only having played together for a limited time and then opening the season against the likes of Stroud/Henderson and TED/Sapp while having to protect a guy who is harder to protect than any other QB in the NFL.

That is not only surprising and impressive, that is simply outstanding.

 

As for Henry, I just can't figure the kid out. AKC and I were having the same conversation in the preseason and neitehr of us gets it. You give TRavis the ball and he's a rolling ball of buthcer knives, at times even going out of his way to hunt people up for punishment. But then all the sudden when he doesn't have the ball he becomes a shrinking violet!

Travis isn't a bad back, but he is very one-dimensional with questionable ball skills. I don't understand why McGahee was virtually ignored in the Raider game after playing very well since August, but unless he was having swelling problems with the knee I really doubt Mularkey will make the same mistake again. I'm not ready to see Henry sent to the pine because the guy really can grind, but I do think it's important for the Bills staff to take advantage of their riches at RB and make a concerted effort to involve McGahee more. I think we'll see a lot of him as Mularkey/Clements pull out all the stops vs NE this weekend.

Cya

[Yard Monkey]

Ever hear of a guy named Peyton Manning? Or how about McNabb? He didn't start the season as a starter but he did finish the year a starter

49203[/snapback]

 

Yeah, they both started, but also they both SUCKED their first year. Marino played at a pro bowl level his first year.

[seq004]

Ever hear of a guy named Peyton Manning? Or how about McNabb? He didn't start the season as a starter but he did finish the year a starter.

49210[/snapback]

Thank you sir! I said before Peyton said it's the best way to learn and his word is has good as any. I know many don't know that Dennis Shaw was benched half way threw Fergy's rookie year and he did very good for a rookie. If he's healed then what's the point. I'm so sick of Bledslow.

[John from Riverside]

Dont let the kid on the field until he is physically ready......

[MattyT]

I think that Losman NEEDS to play this season, but us fans need to adjust our expectations.

 

It's not important that Losman comes in and does or doesn't play up to the level of Manning, Marino, or McNabb, either in their rookie season or prime. What IS important is that Losman simply breathes some life into this team and gives management help to determine what our true week points are. Is it the 0-line? Tight end? Can we say for sure that our veteran QB is no longer servicable? Is it the scheme or how the scheme is applied?

 

Very few lessons can be learned by continuing to stay the course. It is necessary to experiment to see what does and doesn't work with our personnel.

 

If Losman comes in and is able to create some offense by scrambling for yardage and/or distributing the ball to several different players with the same offense that Drew is struggling with then, if you ask me, THAT is the most important thing that we could get out of our QB of the future.

 

Honestly, I think that some of this could be answered by plugging Matthews in for even half a game just to get the perspective from a different QB. If nothing changes offensive production-wise, then that might also be meaningful.

 

As far as injuring the kid....well that's what the offseason is for.

[Guest Guest_bILLSJUNKIE_*]

Why do y'all want this kid on the field.

Not only is he likely to get hurt again, but he's also probably going to be awful like every other rookie QB has ever been.

If Week 12 rolls around and we're out of the p'off picture the Bills should protect JP while he continues to learn and leave Drew in there in an attempt to improve their draft position ;-)

Cya

49126[/snapback]

 

 

What draft position???? We dont have a first rounder next year. Looks like the cowboys are getting a top 5 pick. Lucky bastards lol.

[Simon]

What draft position???? We dont have a first rounder next year. Looks like the cowboys are getting a top 5 pick. Lucky bastards lol.

 

Actually I was only joking....sorta. But if we're not going anywhere I'd much rather be picking at the top of every round than 2/3 of the way in.

And I don't think the Cowboys will end up with a pick in the top 12-15, much less one in the top 5.

Cya

[Realist]

What draft position???? We dont have a first rounder next year. Looks like the cowboys are getting a top 5 pick. Lucky bastards lol.

49440[/snapback]

 

 

Even though we're not getting a first rounder, we'd still get a high second round pick.

[eSJayDee]

Dennis Shaw was benched half way threw Fergy's rookie year and he did very good for a rookie

Actually, FWIW I'm pretty sure Fergy started every game. It was his job to hand the ball to OJ or the FB (who together racked up almost 1000 yds to go w/ OJ's 2003). When it was necessary to throw more than 20% of the time, that was when Fergy was benched in favor of Shaw.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Thank you sir! I said before Peyton said it's the best way to learn and his word is has good as any. I know many don't know that Dennis Shaw was benched half way threw Fergy's rookie year and he did very good for a rookie. If he's healed then what's the point. I'm so sick of Bledslow.

49397[/snapback]

 

 

Peyton Manning is clearly a singular talent at QB in the NFL and why anyone would simply take what worked well for Manning as the method which must be followed by lesser QBs (I think Losman is no Peyton Manning, do you think he is?) makes little sense.

 

My sense of Losman is that when one looks at his specific pluses and minuses shown by his performance in college and in the pre-season, he is a player who stands to improve and profit most from things he will learn off-field rather than things he will learn on-field.

 

In terms of his development, both is better! By playing the game, he will see NFL Ds up close and personal, assuming he is not killed will learn to play at NFL speeds against NFL opponents and will learn to make good decisions under the gun. However, from what I have seen of Losman, I'm less worried about him perfecting these skills than:

 

1. He needs to practice his mechanics so he always is throwing off the correct foot and getting the most jucie out of his body for any pass he throws. The highlight films from Tulane I have seen show JP making some phenomenal throws under the gun because the Tulane blocking was so bad, however, though one canget away with questionable throws, spirals and accuracy in college he will likely get raped if this is the norm of his pro style. Even worse, co-ordination rather than free-lancing is even more important at the Pro level and he will have to make the same throw the same way for his recevers.

 

I see his work in this regard as watching a lot of film to understand what he could do better and watching film of the good QBs like Manning to learn what they do well. This will need to be augmented with him getting on the field for practice throwing, and also working with running patterns with Evans and the reserves, but i think he has work to do in this area before he gets the practice of doing this in a real game. he should be working on this now even without being able to take the field.

 

2. He needs to understand how our offense works and be able to anticipate Clements calls even before he makes them. Again film review is the key.

 

3. If he gets really good not only will the Bills O become second nature to him, but he will learn opposing Ds as well. JP really has a singular opportunity right now to make himself a better more productive QB without the distraction of being prepard for this weeks gameplan so that he doesn't pull a Billy Joe Hobert if he were the back-up or even the disaster QB.

 

I for one would love to see JP on the filed being Peyton Manning but he isn't Peyton Manning from all I have seen, he really looks like he will be more productive in even the short-run (next year) for the Bills devoting his time right now to soaking up knowledge from Sam Wyche than worrying about Troy Vincent taking off his head for being an uppity rookie.

[KOKBILLS]

Peyton Manning is clearly a singular talent at QB in the NFL and why anyone would simply take what worked well for Manning as the method which must be followed by lesser QBs (I think Losman is no Peyton Manning, do you think he is?) makes little sense.

 

My sense of Losman is that when one looks at his specific pluses and minuses shown by his performance in college and in the pre-season, he is a player who stands to improve and profit most from things he will learn off-field rather than things he will learn on-field.

 

In terms of his development, both is better!  By playing the game, he will see NFL Ds up close and personal, assuming he is not killed will learn to play at NFL speeds against NFL opponents and will learn to make good decisions under the gun.  However, from what I have seen of Losman, I'm less worried about him perfecting these skills than:

 

1. He needs to practice his mechanics so he always is throwing off the correct foot and getting the most jucie out of his body for any pass he throws.  The highlight films from Tulane I have seen show JP making some phenomenal throws under the gun because the Tulane blocking was so bad, however, though one canget away with questionable throws, spirals and accuracy in college he will likely get raped if this is the norm of his pro style.  Even worse, co-ordination rather than free-lancing is even more important at the Pro level and he will have to make the same throw the same way for his recevers.

 

I see his work in this regard as watching a lot of film to understand what he could do better and watching film of the good QBs like Manning to learn what they do well.  This will need to be augmented with him getting on the field for practice throwing, and also working with running patterns with Evans and the reserves, but i think he has work to do in this area before he gets the practice of doing this in a real game.  he should be working on this now even without being able to take the field.

 

2. He needs to understand how our offense works and be able to anticipate Clements calls even before he makes them.  Again film review is the key. 

 

3. If he gets really good not only will the Bills O become second nature to him, but he will learn opposing Ds as well.  JP really has a singular opportunity right now to make himself a better more productive QB without the distraction of being prepard for this weeks gameplan so that he doesn't pull a Billy Joe Hobert if he were the back-up or even the disaster QB.

 

I for one would love to see JP on the filed being Peyton Manning but he isn't Peyton Manning from all I have seen, he really looks like he will be more productive in even the short-run (next year) for the Bills devoting his time right now to soaking up knowledge from Sam Wyche than worrying about Troy Vincent taking off his head for being an uppity rookie.

50014[/snapback]

 

I think this issue is a REAL tough call...Of coarse, if the Bills beat NE Sunday, this argument should get pushed off at least for another week or two. That being said, assuming the Bills are 1-5 or 2-4 after the Baltimore Road Game, I would have JP ready to Start vs. Arizona at Home.

 

I agree with both sides of this actually...Sitting behind Bledsoe will do nothing but help JP's progress, but there is also no substitute for the real thing. Look at Carson Palmer this year. Yes he sat and got valuable learning time last year, but the Bengals look to be heading towards the possibility of missing the playoffs this year in order for Palmer to take his lumps. If JP was able to Start 10 Games this Season, I believe the progression in his game will be significant by the time 2005 comes around. There is just no substitute for live bullets, and he will struggle, that is a given...

 

The health issue seems to be a concern for some here, but if he's cleared to take contact he's ready...period. This is NFL Football, it's a brutal Game and you just can't protect a guy because you fear injury. What happened to JP was a freak accident, and I seriously doubt the injury will be an issue by the time Oct. 31st comes around.

 

Now here's the key to this whole deal. First off, Bills Fans will have to realize the Season, for all intents and purposes, will be over if Losman is entered in as the Starter. The reason I believe that to be true is because I feel MM, Wyche, and Clements must stick to the Game Plans that allow JP to be relatively successful. That means a TON of running the Ball, Play Action, etc. They will have to dial things WAY back in order to allow JP to learn on the Job, and to keep him from geting killed...

 

In the end, I just can't see the Bills keeping Bledsoe in there if the Season looks lost anyway. And I do believe the Arizona Home Game will be a great opportunity to get JP in there vs. a less than average opponent. Right now Arizona is 0-3 and giving up 370 yds. per Game on Defense. Who knows? Maybe JP gets a little confidence in that Game, the Bills win, and all of a sudden the Team gets a spark. Like I said, if they are 2-4 or 1-5 before Arizona, I think it's a good time to throw the Kid out there and see what happens...

 

Disregard if the Bills win Sunday though. And that's what I want right now more than anything, even JP...B)

[Justice]

I think that Losman NEEDS to play this season, but us fans need to adjust our expectations.

 

It's not important that Losman comes in and does or doesn't play up to the level of Manning, Marino, or McNabb, either in their rookie season or prime. What IS important is that Losman simply breathes some life into this team and gives management help to determine what our true week points are. Is it the 0-line? Tight end? Can we say for sure that our veteran QB is no longer servicable? Is it the scheme or how the scheme is applied?

 

Very few lessons can be learned by continuing to stay the course. It is necessary to experiment to see what does and doesn't work with our personnel.

 

You make some good points.

[seq004]

Actually, FWIW I'm pretty sure Fergy started every game.  It was his job to hand the ball to OJ or the FB (who together racked up almost 1000 yds to go w/ OJ's 2003). When it was necessary to throw more than 20% of the time, that was when Fergy was benched in favor of Shaw.

49563[/snapback]

Well you got one out 2 right....Fergy only started after Shaw was benched midway threw the season. He did not start every game. Your right about what he did with the ball. They had the best RB in the league and Jim Braxton was a good fullback so somewhat like the Bills this year they kept it on the ground.

[seq004]

Actually, FWIW I'm pretty sure Fergy started every game.  It was his job to hand the ball to OJ or the FB (who together racked up almost 1000 yds to go w/ OJ's 2003). When it was necessary to throw more than 20% of the time, that was when Fergy was benched in favor of Shaw.

49563[/snapback]

My bad, you were absolutly right. I looked it up at billszone. He beat him out in preseason. Old-timers kicking in.

[Guest I'm the quarterback!]

Peyton Manning is clearly a singular talent at QB in the NFL and why anyone would simply take what worked well for Manning as the method which must be followed by lesser QBs (I think Losman is no Peyton Manning, do you think he is?) makes little sense.

 

My sense of Losman is that when one looks at his specific pluses and minuses shown by his performance in college and in the pre-season, he is a player who stands to improve and profit most from things he will learn off-field rather than things he will learn on-field.

 

In terms of his development, both is better!  By playing the game, he will see NFL Ds up close and personal, assuming he is not killed will learn to play at NFL speeds against NFL opponents and will learn to make good decisions under the gun.  However, from what I have seen of Losman, I'm less worried about him perfecting these skills than:

 

1. He needs to practice his mechanics so he always is throwing off the correct foot and getting the most jucie out of his body for any pass he throws.  The highlight films from Tulane I have seen show JP making some phenomenal throws under the gun because the Tulane blocking was so bad, however, though one canget away with questionable throws, spirals and accuracy in college he will likely get raped if this is the norm of his pro style.  Even worse, co-ordination rather than free-lancing is even more important at the Pro level and he will have to make the same throw the same way for his recevers.

 

I see his work in this regard as watching a lot of film to understand what he could do better and watching film of the good QBs like Manning to learn what they do well.  This will need to be augmented with him getting on the field for practice throwing, and also working with running patterns with Evans and the reserves, but i think he has work to do in this area before he gets the practice of doing this in a real game.  he should be working on this now even without being able to take the field.

 

2. He needs to understand how our offense works and be able to anticipate Clements calls even before he makes them.  Again film review is the key. 

 

3. If he gets really good not only will the Bills O become second nature to him, but he will learn opposing Ds as well.  JP really has a singular opportunity right now to make himself a better more productive QB without the distraction of being prepard for this weeks gameplan so that he doesn't pull a Billy Joe Hobert if he were the back-up or even the disaster QB.

 

I for one would love to see JP on the filed being Peyton Manning but he isn't Peyton Manning from all I have seen, he really looks like he will be more productive in even the short-run (next year) for the Bills devoting his time right now to soaking up knowledge from Sam Wyche than worrying about Troy Vincent taking off his head for being an uppity rookie.

50014[/snapback]

 

Agreed but please anyone but Bledsoe, replace Bledsoe with anyone.

[Guest Guest]

JPL = RJ

[Greg de'Ville]

...huh? Jimmy Swagger? J.P. Swagger?

[tatonka12]

I certainly hope they don't toss JP to the wolves coming off a broken leg. The future needs to be protected better than that.

49148[/snapback]

the future???????????? that remains to be seen,sorry but Ive hear that one too many times over the last 7\8 years or so .I'll belive it when I see it! and from what little Ive seen I think there will be a lot of dissapointed bills fans once agian!we need a leader IF he's it ! he'll have to prove it!!!

[Fla Bills Fan]

He needs experience. Let him make rookie mistakes in a year that doesn't matter and then next year he will be ready. You can't sit a guy because your afraid he might get hurt. Football doesn't work that way. You can't learn how to swim without getting in the water.

 

BTW. I'm willing to bet the O-Line doesn't look as bad with JP at QB

49145[/snapback]

Yeah, what you said.