TSW has "jumped the shark"

[bobblehead]

Only one that gets the job done. It's what separates the "Greats" from everyone else. It's why five of the six listed will always be part of the greatest coaches of all time discussion. Levy doesn't make the grade.

635336[/snapback]

 

You wouldn't know the "grade" if your mother brought it home and placed it smack dab in front of the computer for you.

[Dan]

OK. just to show how bored I am (as well as how tired I am of idiots bashing Marv). I took those stats and deleted everyone's 4 best years. Here's a summary of what you get (details below):

 

Parcells | Adj TTL | 112 110 1 | 4 5 |**** win % 0.50 (0.444-playoffs)

Gibbs | Adj TTL | 93 67 0 | 5 5 |**** win % 0.58 (0.50-playoffs)

Levy | Adj TTL | 94 97 0 | 2 4 |**** win % 0.49 (0.33-playoffs)

Belicheck | Adj TTL | 49 63 0 | 1 1 |**** win % 0.43 (0.50-playoffs)

Noll | Adj TTL | 145 137 0 | 4 6 |**** win % 0.51 (0.40-playoffs)

Johnson | Adj TTL | 34 46 0 | 1 2 |**** win % 0.43 (0.33-playoffs)

 

You can't say.."but they won the Superbowl", because if you take out everyone's 4 best years; there's no Superbowl teams in the mix.

 

So just based on win/loss percentage, Levy would rank 4th on that list (only marginally behind the great Parcells). Although, if we really wanted to be fair we should add Shula, Lombardi, Landry and a few others to this mix (but I'm not that bored).

 

Bottom line, if you take out the best years of their career, Johnson and Belicheck aren't evenin the same league as Levy. So, I'd suspend any further discussion of them in the same breath as Levy. Also, another not too surprising conclusion, if you delete the 4 best years of anyone's coaching career, all but Gibbs seem pretty darn ordinary.

 

So what does this tell you, you shouldn't manipulate numbers just to prove a point. And a person's career is more than just the sum of a bunch of numbers. But, even if you do add the numbers, Levy still stands with the best coaches of the game.

 

 

 

=======================================================

 

Parcells

| Year TM | W L T | W L |

+----------+--------------+----------+

| 1983 nyg | 3 12 1 | 0 0 |

| 1984 nyg | 9 7 0 | 1 1 |

| 1985 nyg | 10 6 0 | 1 1 |

| 1986 nyg | 14 2 0 | 3 0 |****

| 1987 nyg | 6 9 0 | 0 0 |

| 1988 nyg | 10 6 0 | 0 0 |

| 1989 nyg | 12 4 0 | 0 1 |****

| 1990 nyg | 13 3 0 | 3 0 |****

| 1993 nwe | 5 11 0 | 0 0 |

| 1994 nwe | 10 6 0 | 0 1 |

| 1995 nwe | 6 10 0 | 0 0 |

| 1996 nwe | 11 5 0 | 2 1 |

| 1997 nyj | 9 7 0 | 0 0 |

| 1998 nyj | 12 4 0 | 1 1 |****

| 1999 nyj | 8 8 0 | 0 0 |

| 2003 dal | 10 6 0 | 0 1 |

| 2004 dal | 6 10 0 | 0 0 |

| 2005 dal | 9 7 0 | 0 0 |

+----------+--------------+----------+

| TOTALS | 163 123 1 | 11 7 |

| Adj TTL | 112 110 1 | 4 5 |**** win % 0.50 (0.444-playoffs)

 

 

 

Gibbs

| Year TM | W L T | W L |

+----------+--------------+----------+

| 1981 was | 8 8 0 | 0 0 |

| 1982 was | 8 1 0 | 4 0 |****

| 1983 was | 14 2 0 | 2 1 |****

| 1984 was | 11 5 0 | 0 1 |

| 1985 was | 10 6 0 | 0 0 |

| 1986 was | 12 4 0 | 2 1 |

| 1987 was | 11 4 0 | 3 0 |****

| 1988 was | 7 9 0 | 0 0 |

| 1989 was | 10 6 0 | 0 0 |

| 1990 was | 10 6 0 | 1 1 |

| 1991 was | 14 2 0 | 3 0 |****

| 1992 was | 9 7 0 | 1 1 |

| 2004 was | 6 10 0 | 0 0 |

| 2005 was | 10 6 0 | 1 1 |

+----------+--------------+----------+

| TOTALS | 140 76 0 | 17 6 |

| Adj TTL | 93 67 0 | 5 5 |**** win % 0.58 (0.50-playoffs)

 

 

 

Levy

| Year TM | W L T | W L |

+----------+--------------+----------+

| 1978 kan | 4 12 0 | 0 0 |

| 1979 kan | 7 9 0 | 0 0 |

| 1980 kan | 8 8 0 | 0 0 |

| 1981 kan | 9 7 0 | 0 0 |

| 1982 kan | 3 6 0 | 0 0 |

| 1986 buf | 2 5 0 | 0 0 |

| 1987 buf | 7 8 0 | 0 0 |

| 1988 buf | 12 4 0 | 1 1 |

| 1989 buf | 9 7 0 | 0 1 |

| 1990 buf | 13 3 0 | 2 1 |****

| 1991 buf | 13 3 0 | 2 1 |****

| 1992 buf | 11 5 0 | 3 1 |****

| 1993 buf | 12 4 0 | 2 1 |****

| 1994 buf | 7 9 0 | 0 0 |

| 1995 buf | 10 6 0 | 1 1 |

| 1996 buf | 10 6 0 | 0 1 |

| 1997 buf | 6 10 0 | 0 0 |

+----------+--------------+----------+

| TOTALS | 143 112 0 | 11 8 |

| Adj TTL | 94 97 0 | 2 4 |**** win % 0.49 (0.33-playoffs)

 

 

 

Belicheck

| Year TM | W L T | W L |

+----------+--------------+----------+

| 1991 cle | 6 10 0 | 0 0 |

| 1992 cle | 7 9 0 | 0 0 |

| 1993 cle | 7 9 0 | 0 0 |

| 1994 cle | 11 5 0 | 1 1 |****

| 1995 cle | 5 11 0 | 0 0 |

| 2000 nwe | 5 11 0 | 0 0 |

| 2001 nwe | 11 5 0 | 3 0 |****

| 2002 nwe | 9 7 0 | 0 0 |

| 2003 nwe | 14 2 0 | 3 0 |****

| 2004 nwe | 14 2 0 | 3 0 |****

| 2005 nwe | 10 6 0 | 1 1 |

+----------+--------------+----------+

| TOTALS | 99 77 0 | 11 2 |

| Adj TTL | 49 63 0 | 1 1 |**** win % 0.43 (0.50-playoffs)

 

 

 

Noll

| Year TM | W L T | W L |

+----------+--------------+----------+

| 1969 pit | 1 13 0 | 0 0 |

| 1970 pit | 5 9 0 | 0 0 |

| 1971 pit | 6 8 0 | 0 0 |

| 1972 pit | 11 3 0 | 1 1 |

| 1973 pit | 10 4 0 | 0 1 |

| 1974 pit | 10 3 1 | 3 0 |****

| 1975 pit | 12 2 0 | 3 0 |****

| 1976 pit | 10 4 0 | 1 1 |

| 1977 pit | 9 5 0 | 0 1 |

| 1978 pit | 14 2 0 | 3 0 |****

| 1979 pit | 12 4 0 | 3 0 |****

| 1980 pit | 9 7 0 | 0 0 |

| 1981 pit | 8 8 0 | 0 0 |

| 1982 pit | 6 3 0 | 0 1 |

| 1983 pit | 10 6 0 | 0 1 |

| 1984 pit | 9 7 0 | 1 1 |

| 1985 pit | 7 9 0 | 0 0 |

| 1986 pit | 6 10 0 | 0 0 |

| 1987 pit | 8 7 0 | 0 0 |

| 1988 pit | 5 11 0 | 0 0 |

| 1989 pit | 9 7 0 | 1 1 |

| 1990 pit | 9 7 0 | 0 0 |

| 1991 pit | 7 9 0 | 0 0 |

+----------+--------------+----------+

| TOTALS | 193 148 1 | 16 8 |

| Adj TTL | 145 137 0 | 4 6 |**** win % 0.51 (0.40-playoffs)

 

 

 

Johnson

| Year TM | W L T | W L |

+----------+--------------+----------+

| 1989 dal | 1 15 0 | 0 0 |

| 1990 dal | 7 9 0 | 0 0 |

| 1991 dal | 11 5 0 | 1 1 |****

| 1992 dal | 13 3 0 | 3 0 |****

| 1993 dal | 12 4 0 | 3 0 |****

| 1996 mia | 8 8 0 | 0 0 |

| 1997 mia | 9 7 0 | 0 1 |

| 1998 mia | 10 6 0 | 1 1 |****

| 1999 mia | 9 7 0 | 1 1 |

+----------+--------------+----------+

| TOTALS | 80 64 0 | 9 4 |

| Adj TTL | 34 46 0 | 1 2 |**** win % 0.43 (0.33-playoffs)

[apuszczalowski]

But Polian is the only reason that Levy's teams were good and he should have all the credit. Look at all his Super Bowl rings since losing the most over rated HOF.

 

 

What? he hasn't even made it to the Super Bowl since Levy was the Head Caoch of his team? Even with one of the best QB's in the league today? Even in a season where his team almost went undefeated?

 

Who is it thats overrated now?

[Dan]

True. excellent point about Polian. But maybe its just because he has that bum Dungy. If only he could hire Jimmy Johnson as his coach then he'd win the superbowl for like 20 years in a row.

[mead107]

What is Marv lacking that the others have? Rings. Not just one ring. Multiple rings. Without one Marv doesn't even quailify for the discussion.

635322[/snapback]

I know your kind , an you sir ,sure in hell are no Bills fan . move on troll .

[Offside Number 76]

What is Marv lacking that the others have? Rings. Not just one ring. Multiple rings. Without one Marv doesn't even quailify for the discussion.

635322[/snapback]

 

What are the others lacking that Marv has? Four straight conference titles.

[jarthur31]

Losing seems to have eaten away at peoples brains.  The fact that someone here is calling out Marv Levy as the "most overrated HOF'er ever" is sheer idiocy.  Marv may not have been the greatest X's and O's coach ever, and his moves as GM may be questionable right now,  but for a supposed a Bills fan to write such crap, and have those in agreement, almost makes me believe that Bills fans, en masse, are not the "smart fans' that the national media likes to portray them as, but rather a bunch of lead paint-chip eating baffoons.

 

I would love to hear one of these genious' try to make a case for each and every HOFer.  My guess is that their memory wouldn't get too far past Howie Long...

There is almost no point in coming here to try to discuss football anymore.  The ADD crowd has taken the house....

635212[/snapback]

 

Amen brother! Those pessimists should really start their own board and feed their hatred of the team amongst themselves.

 

Idiots.

[Lori]

Actually, overall career numbers are quite comparable:

 

  Parsells  163-123-1 (.569)  11-7 Playoffs

  Gibbs    140-76      (.640)  17-16

  Levy      143-112    (.560 )  11-8

  Bilichek  99-77      (.562)  11-2

  Noll        193-148    (.552)  16-8

  Johnson    80-64    (.555)  9-4

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/index.htm

635283[/snapback]

There you go again, bringing facts into the discussion.....

 

[I Forgot My Last Username]

Just do what I did and put krazykat and Is Marv awake? on your ignore lists.

 

They don't bother me anymore.

 

[Lori]

Just do what I did and put krazykat and Is Marv awake? on your ignore lists.

 

They don't bother me anymore.

 

635451[/snapback]

I wish I could. Sound advice for the rest of y'all, though...

[firstngoal]

But Polian is the only reason that Levy's teams were good and he should have all the credit. Look at all his Super Bowl rings since losing the most over rated HOF.

What? he hasn't even made it to the Super Bowl since Levy was the Head Caoch of his team? Even with one of the best QB's in the league today? Even in a season where his team almost went undefeated?

 

Who is it thats overrated now?

635392[/snapback]

 

Your missing the point, when Polian went to Indy they were a terrible team, He built that team into a perenial winner capable of winning it all each and every season. Now, you hire Levy to Coach a team like the Chiefs (which he did) back in the day, he did nothing for the franchise. Bill Polian did!

 

Bottom Line - Levy was just Lucky to step into the situation that he did with the Bills and another Coach like a Jim Mora would have gotten to the Bowl as well because the team was too good for even a lousy Coach like Levy to screw up!

[Is Marv Awake?]

What are the others lacking that Marv has?  Four straight conference titles.

635437[/snapback]

 

I am sure they all would rather have the Rings.

[Ramius]

Your missing the point, when Polian went to Indy they were a terrible team,  He built that team into a perenial winner capable of winning it all each and every season.  Now, you hire Levy to Coach a team like the Chiefs (which he did) back in the day, he did nothing for the franchise.  Bill Polian did!

 

Bottom Line - Levy was just Lucky to step into the situation that he did with the Bills and another Coach like a Jim Mora would have gotten to the Bowl as well because the team was too good for even a lousy Coach like Levy to screw up!

635558[/snapback]

 

Because polian has turned into into multiple time super bowl champs. Oh wait, no he hasnt.

 

But polian has at least led the Colts to at least a AFC championships. Oh wait, he hasnt done that either.

 

Levy a lousy coach? See that thing going out the window? Its whatever remaining credibility you had left.

[mborn]

I am sure they all would rather have the Rings.

635581[/snapback]

Go to a Steelers forum, they have five.

[dave mcbride]

Other than the four Super Bowl seasons, Levy's 94-97 in record.  7 of his 17 seasons had losing records, one was .500, two were 9-7. 

 

What mediocre or better coach wouldn't have gone an average 12-4 with the talent that we had in the early '90s? 

 

Polian built this team, Levy underachieved with it!  As soon as Polian left the team began to fall apart again.  That's why Levy's ingenious and coaching prowess finished out his string with the Bills 7-9, 10-6, 10-6, 6-10.

635233[/snapback]

chuck noll had an under .500 record lifetime -- that is, when you take away the seasons where the team won big.

 

yeesh.

[SACTOBILLSFAN]

Other than the four Super Bowl seasons, Levy's 94-97 in record.  7 of his 17 seasons had losing records, one was .500, two were 9-7. 

 

What mediocre or better coach wouldn't have gone an average 12-4 with the talent that we had in the early '90s? 

 

Polian built this team, Levy underachieved with it!  As soon as Polian left the team began to fall apart again.  That's why Levy's ingenious and coaching prowess finished out his string with the Bills 7-9, 10-6, 10-6, 6-10.

635233[/snapback]

 

You take away Belichick's super bowls and he's sh------- too

[jad1]

Your missing the point, when Polian went to Indy they were a terrible team,  He built that team into a perenial winner capable of winning it all each and every season.  Now, you hire Levy to Coach a team like the Chiefs (which he did) back in the day, he did nothing for the franchise.  Bill Polian did!

 

Bottom Line - Levy was just Lucky to step into the situation that he did with the Bills and another Coach like a Jim Mora would have gotten to the Bowl as well because the team was too good for even a lousy Coach like Levy to screw up!

635558[/snapback]

 

When Polian went to the Bills, the Bills were also a lousy team. Hank Bullough was the first Bills coach to be honored with Polian skills. How long did he last?

 

So, I guess not just any coach would be able to lead the Polian Bills, because if that were true, Hank would have 4 AFC rings right now.

 

Bottom line, Manning:Kelly; James:Thomas; Harrison:Reed; Wayne:Lofton; Pollard:McKeller. The Polian Colts, like the Polian Bills, are loaded with talent. However, neither Mora nor Dungy has gotten them close to the Super Bowl.

 

So coaching does matter. And if you were around when Kelly, Smith, Thomas, and Reed all grew up under Levy's leadership, you'd understand that.

 

If you were around when Levy changed from a conservative 'pound the ball' strategy to the no-huddle, you'd understand that.

 

And if you watched the Bills get up off the mat, four years running, after losing the most heartbreaking game in franchise history, to do something no other franchise has ever done, you'd understand that Levy's coaching was a difference maker.

[Buftex]

Your missing the point, when Polian went to Indy they were a terrible team,  He built that team into a perenial winner capable of winning it all each and every season.  Now, you hire Levy to Coach a team like the Chiefs (which he did) back in the day, he did nothing for the franchise.  Bill Polian did!

 

Bottom Line - Levy was just Lucky to step into the situation that he did with the Bills and another Coach like a Jim Mora would have gotten to the Bowl as well because the team was too good for even a lousy Coach like Levy to screw up!

635558[/snapback]

 

 

So, using your idiotic logic, Polian deserves all the credit for the success that the Bills had in the early 90's (which you don't seem impressed by), and for the (lesser) success that Jim Mora Sr and Tony Dungy have had in recent years with the Colts? Then, you bring up Levy's lack of success in KC to illustrate your "point", as if it proves your point. By your logic, Levy could simply write off his lack of success in KC as the result of the poor job the GM in KC did...

[Offside Number 76]

I am sure they all would rather have the Rings.

635581[/snapback]

 

I'm also sure, but you missed the point. No surprise.

[PatPatPatSack]

I'm also sure, but you missed the point.  No surprise.

635735[/snapback]

 

Please make it stop.

 

I say we evaluate all great men, but first subtract all the great accomplishments. Well - 4 of em anyway.

 

Pasteur - take away that thing about bacteria and he's just some loser from the 19th century. Lincoln, so he won 1 - take that away, he's just some oaf off the prarriee. Edison? Take away the light bulb, the phonograph, the telephone (hey, leave him alone he's on a roll) and and and the victory over the japs and what do you got? Nothing. Not a ring amongst them all. They are nuthin.

 

Or better yet, just make this post stop.