Vince Young and the Wonderlic

[major]

Who cares about a WONDERLIC score? All I care about is championships. Which is what he brought to the University of Texas and what he'll bring to whatever NFL team takes him in this year's draft. Oh how I wish Buffalo would have lost a few more games last year so that we'd be in a position to take this guy.

[Beerball]

Good idea, start another thread.

[syhuang]

Who cares about a WONDERLIC score? All I care about is championships. Which is what he brought to the University of Texas and what he'll bring to whatever NFL team takes him in this year's draft. Oh how I wish Buffalo would have lost a few more games last year so that we'd be in a position to take this guy.

613047[/snapback]

 

 

Bills may not need to lose few more games to be able to draft Young. Don't be surprised that Young is the third QB off the board and still available at our #8 pick.

[John in VA Beach]

Who cares about a WONDERLIC score? All I care about is championships. Which is what he brought to the University of Texas and what he'll bring to whatever NFL team takes him in this year's draft. Oh how I wish Buffalo would have lost a few more games last year so that we'd be in a position to take this guy.

613047[/snapback]

 

Actually, we might be in a position to draft the fella since his stock is dropping. However, I wouldn't underestimate the wonderlic scores. The NFL game is way more complex and you need to be able to read and pick apart defensive schemes. In the college level Young could do that with his feet and athleticism and arm strength. The speed of the NFL athletes will nuetralize his explosiveness and could leave him exposed.

[The Dean]

Actually, we might be in a position to draft the fella since his stock is dropping.  However, I wouldn't underestimate the wonderlic scores.  The NFL game is way more complex and you need to be able to read and pick apart defensive schemes.  In the college level Young could do that with his feet and athleticism and arm strength.  The speed of the NFL athletes will nuetralize his explosiveness and could leave him exposed.

613059[/snapback]

 

Of course, you have some evidence that the Wonderlic is a good predictor of the ability to read defenses...right?

[MadBuffaloDisease]

I've heard that the Wonderlic is mostly meaningless...unless the player scores at the extremes, like under 10 or over 35.

[John in VA Beach]

Of course, you have some evidence that the Wonderlic is a good predictor of the ability to read defenses...right?

613069[/snapback]

Okay, I'll bite. If the wonderlic isn't used by scouts as an indicator of the athletes mental capabilities, what does it indicate? For a QB, mental capabilities would include reading D, understanding coverage schemes, comprehending complex playbooks, etc. I don't need to site any historical data for that claim do I? Its common sense. Sure some folks beat the odds, however, the whole point of the wonderlic is to tell you if someone needs to beat the odds or if they are a pretty safe bet.

[dundy249]

Interesting... it certainly provides further evidence for Jeff George's shortcomings....

611958[/snapback]

 

What do all of these QB's have in common.

 

 

Never won the big game.

[The Dean]

Okay, I'll bite.  If the wonderlic isn't used by scouts as an indicator of the athletes mental capabilities, what does it indicate? For a QB, mental capabilities would include reading D, understanding coverage schemes, comprehending complex playbooks, etc.  I don't need to site any historical data for that claim do I?  Its common sense. Sure some folks beat the odds, however, the whole point of the wonderlic is to tell you if someone needs to beat the odds or if they are a pretty safe bet.

613081[/snapback]

 

 

Well, just because something is used for a purpose by a group of people doesn't mean it's a good use for that particular tool. ( Remember, football is still in the dark ages, as far as advanced analytics and management philosophy, etc are concerned. Many of the guys making the decisions are not the brightest bulbs on the tree.) But, let's assume for a moment the Wonderlic is a reasonable predictor of success in football (an assumption that I've never seen successfully defended, BTW...but, I digress).

 

If the Wonderlic is a decent predictor, that would mean that for a large group of people over a long period of time, those who do better on the test tend to perform better in certain football-related tasks than those who perform poorly on the test. How much better? Hos often? What percentage of the variance can be explained by the Wonderlic score?

 

Now, we don't have the answers to these (and other) questions, but I'd be shocked if it explained as much as 20% of the variance in these groups. The problem is, that ability to predict is almost always lost at the individual level...there are just TOO many variables among individuals to have one (non-physical) measurement mean very much.

 

What these kinds of tests really do (at their best) is give perspective employers another way to differentiate between hundreds of mostly unknown applicants. It's a piece of information that helps them pare-down the field. It's sloppy...probably sloppier than the "subjecive" observation of a trained scout, IMO...but, it is another piece of information. It can give a team a reason to look at a guy they may have passed on...or question a guy they were high on. If may give a GM enough concern to make some inquiries as to a prospects "mental" capabilities.

 

So, let's say Vince scores rock-bottom on the Wonderlic. That might give a GM some concern...so he begins to ask questions. He talks to the guys coaches, teammates, etc. And finally, he talks to the guy himself. After all of that, the Wonderlic score is basically meaningless. A good evaluator of people and talent should be able to tell if this guy is capable of understanding the playbook...if he can think and react on his feet (of course, there is film for this stuff, too) and if he has a football mentality. Standardized test scores cannot replace real personal interaction in predicting a persons ability to succeed in any given field...they are just a guide to use in the evaluation process.

[Kelly the Dog]

In the last several years, has there been a Bills player who has been asked to learn more things, picked them up quicker and then exhibited a capacity to perform them without glaring mental mistakes more than Jason Peters?

 

The guy has been with the team two years as an UDFA and has played seven positions, if you include KO, KR, P and PR. Coaches have gone out of their way to say how quickly he has picked things up. His first big play as a Bill, the blocked punt, was a result of him seeing one thing one time and then anticipating the next play. Granted, this is not learning all of the offense like a quarterback is asked to do, but he has exhibited more football acumen than anyone on the team.

[TravelingDad48]

http://www.unc.edu/~mirabile/Wonderlic.htm

 

Sorry if has been posted before ... its a list of QB's past and future and their scores ...

 

If Young did get a 16 ... thats 2 better than Dan Marino did !!! I could live with that !

[Kelly the Dog]

http://www.unc.edu/~mirabile/Wonderlic.htm

 

Sorry if has been posted before ... its a list of QB's past and future and their scores ...

 

If Young did get a 16 ... thats 2 better than Dan Marino did !!! I could live with that !

613128[/snapback]

Thanks. Great list. Jeff George got a 10?! That's impossible. 8 tops.

[bluenews]

.....this is what I learned today fro my friend who has a scout with the Bills last years and has sinced moved on to another team. He is in Indy and all the talk today was about Vince Young and his Wonderlic score of 6. He said teams are bailing on him bigtime. Mac Brown is very upset that this information was leaked and is planning limiting coach/scout access at future Austin Pro Days.

 

He went on to say that other scouts have serious concerns with Young's sidearm release and most are considering him as a 2-3 year project.

[KRT88]

I know some people do not test well and I know it is a timed test, but couldn't I training my pet cat to beat that score? I know I can find some sixth grades with more cognitive brain function than Young.

 

And honestly, would you really want to trust you teams NFL offense on a guy that can't think in pressure situations? Let along trust him to read an complex NFL defense

[EndZoneCrew]

I think the turd I just dropped in my throne could score a 5 on that test!!

[Chilly]

Oh Yee of little reading comprehension, let us bring you up to speed.

 

.....this is what I learned today fro my friend who has a scout with the Bills last years and has sinced moved on to another team.  He is in Indy and all the talk today was about Vince Young and his Wonderlic score of 6.  He said teams are bailing on him bigtime.    Mac Brown is very upset that this information was leaked and is planning limiting coach/scout access at future Austin Pro Days.

 

He went on to say that other scouts have serious concerns with Young's sidearm release and most are considering him as a 2-3 year project.

613334[/snapback]

 

The first thing that we are going to talk about today class is the difference between a "rumor" and "fact". The talk was, indeed, in reference to a "rumor" that had been circulating around the NFL combine.

 

ru·mor Pronunciation Key (rmr)

n.

 

1. A piece of unverified information of uncertain origin usually spread by word of mouth.

2. Unverified information received from another; hearsay.

 

This means that it is not necessarily true nor is it false. However, you seem to just take it for fact.

 

Let's take a look at all of the evidence that is against this rumor.

 

First off, let us read an article published by the Houston Chronicle.

 

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3687374.html

 

The headline is, and I quote, "False score gives Young wrong kind of buzz". The headline seems to be saying that Vince Young's score wasn't really 6. But was it? Let us read on to find out.

 

On Sunday, the combine said the test score of 6 that was being reported by some media outlets was false.

 

"I've been told it was inaccurate by a source good enough for me to quote it," Texans general manager Charley Casserly said Sunday afternoon.

 

Young took the test again and scored 16. According to Young's agent, Major Adams, the Sunday test was administered by Jeff Foster, executive director of National Scouting Combine.

 

"The combine officials assured us that score (6) was false and that the accurate score will be known when the combine results are given to each team," Adams said.

 

Wonderlic scores are supposed to be confidential and are never confirmed publicly by the NFL. Because they are included in combine results given to teams after the combine, scores leak out.

 

So, the test was improperly given, and then the mistake was corrected and it was properly administered, whereby the rumor is that he scored a 16.

 

This means that the first time, if he DID score a 6, was NOT a fair score on the Wonderlic.

 

But further proof that this is just a rumor lies in that last sentence. "Because they are included in combine results given to teams after the combine, scores leak out."

 

Note that the results aren't given to teams until AFTER the combine, which means that the teams haven't even received the official Wonderlic results left.

 

I know some people do not test well and I know it is a timed test, but couldn't I training my pet cat to beat that score?  I know I can find some sixth grades with more cognitive brain function than Young.

 

And honestly, would you really want to trust you teams NFL offense on a guy that can't think in pressure situations?  Let along trust him to read an complex NFL defense

613368[/snapback]

 

You are completely, 100% wrong with your assessment of what happened.

 

According to that Houston Cronicle article, let me quote some opinions of people who work professionally in the NFL.

 

"I've seen players test in single digits and play 10 years, and I've seen some guys test in the 30s that couldn't walk across the street," said Reese, who has been in the NFL since 1975.

 

So the Wonderlic, while it is just ONE way to test for the ability to make decisions, it isn't THE way to test for the ability to make decisions.

 

Let's take a look at some of the quarterbacks over the years that have scored a 16 or less on one of their accurate attempts, like apparently Vince Young did

 

(these statistics courtesy of http://www.unc.edu/~mirabile/Wonderlic.htm)

 

Losman, J.P.

Culpepper, Daunte

McNabb, Donovan

McNair, Steve

Cunningham, Randall

Marino, Dan

 

Now, let us take a look at some of the quarterbacks over the years that did exceptionally well by scoring a 30 or above on one of their accurate attempts:

 

Losman, J.P.

Bledsoe, Drew (who we all know makes extremely quick decisions)

Henson, Drew

Harrington, Joey

Brown, Travis

Smith, Akili

Griese, Brian

 

So yeah, this test must really measure whether someone is smart or stupid. Also, it is a pretty good indicator of how good someone will be on the football field.

[kasper13]

I thought Roscoe Parrish got a 2 or 3 on that test. Who cares if a guy gets a zero, as long as he can throw a football? That's why Vince Young got to go to Texas in the first place, not because he was literate. College is for students and College Football is for athletes. There's a giant difference.

[Repulsif]

ok, just a question about the test.

you have 12 minutes to answer 50 questions.

Correct ?

[Stl Bills]

John Clayton of ESPN is reporting Vince Young's agent says he got a score of 16 on the Wonderlic not a 6. The more I research the sources that claim he got a six, none seem to be able to verify this 100%, almost every source used a word like allegedly or rumored. However Mack Brown and the owner of the Texans are the ones who seem to be backing the fact that Young got a 16. I smell a rat; I think there is something to the reports of such a low score of 6.

[justnzane]

ok, just a question about the test.

you have 12 minutes to answer 50 questions.

Correct ?

613484[/snapback]

that is correct. so if you guess on every problem... it is likely that you score around a 12.

[Chilly]

John Clayton of ESPN is reporting Vince Young's agent says he got a score of 16 on the Wonderlic not a 6.  The more I research the sources that claim he got a six, none seem to be able to verify this 100%, almost every source used a word like allegedly or rumored.  However Mack Brown and the owner of the Texans are the ones who seem to be backing the fact that Young got a 16.  I smell a rat; I think there is something to the reports of such a low score of 6.

613485[/snapback]

 

The 6 apparently did happen, but the test was administered incorrectly, therefore it doesn't count.

[obie_wan]

The 6 apparently did happen, but the test was administered incorrectly, therefore it doesn't count.

614212[/snapback]

 

 

yeah- Mack Brown had arranged for Vince to have the actual answers in front of him while taking the test, but the test proctor was left out of the loop and had Vince take it without study aids.

[NotStuckonStupid]

This is a pretty funny wonderlic link.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=gallo/060227

 

my favorite is...

 

45. When Brett Favre throws an interception into quadruple coverage, it is generally thought to be excusable because ____.

 

Answer choices: (a) he is a "gunslinger"; (b) he isn't surrounded by top-notch talent, so therefore his only alternative is to play down to their level; © he is nice to the media; (d) he is Brett Favre; (e) all of the above; (f) I have no idea.

612932[/snapback]

 

My answer is E, but I am partial it B

[Lurker]

Report: Vince Young May Not Be Smart Enough To Play In NFL

 

Per The Onion

[dundy249]

We give the same test to help evaluate people interviewing position for our jobs.

 

 

You would be surprised. A lot of people score lower than 20...

 

 

I am not the smartest person in the world and I scored a 43.

 

 

It is really an IQ test..common sense

[Marv's Neighbor]

That's good to know, he's twice or 3 times smarter than I thought.  

611934[/snapback]

If you went to school in Texas you would not have been able to figure that out!

[Chilly]

If you went to school in Texas you would not have been able to figure that out!

624125[/snapback]

 

Dat Wuz Retarded.

[bigbillsfan12]

Wonderlic Test

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

The Wonderlic Personnel Test (often referred to as Wunderlich) is an intelligence test primarily known for being administered to prospective players in the National Football League since the 1970s. The Wonderlic is a twelve-minute, fifty-question exam to assess aptitude for learning a job and adapting to solve problems for employees in a wide range of occupations. The score is calculated as the number of correct answers given in the allotted time. A score of 20 is intended to indicate average intelligence (corresponding to an intelligence quotient of 100; to convert scores IQ = 2WPT + 60). It is rumored that at least one player has scored a 1 on the test.

 

Contents

 

1 Famous scores

2 Average scores

3 Sample questions

4 References

5 External links

 

 

 

 

Famous scores

Pat McInally, a wide receiver/punter from Harvard University who played for the Cincinnati Bengals from 1977 to 1985, is the only player known to have scored a perfect 50. In 2005, it was rumored that Ryan Fitzpatrick, a quarterback also from Harvard, scored a perfect 50, but his actual accomplishment was to finish the test in 9 minutes with a score of 38 — the most impressive speed ever seen at the NFL Combine. Fitzpatrick was drafted in 2005 by the St. Louis Rams — referenced in The Wall Street Journal (September 30, 2005) as the NFL's Smartest Team.

 

Some rumored, but unconfirmed, scores of other NFL players and draft candidates:

 

Pat McInally, punter — 50

Mike Mamula, defensive end — 49

Kevin Curtis, wide receiver — 48

Adam Cox, quarterback — 43

Alex Smith, quarterback — 40

Brian Griese, quarterback — 39

Eli Manning, quarterback — 39

Akili Smith, quarterback — 37 (suspected of cheating; scored 15 on first attempt)

Matt Leinart, quarterback — 35

Tom Brady, quarterback — 33

Steve Young, quarterback — 33

John Elway, quarterback — 30

Troy Aikman, quarterback — 29

Peyton Manning, quarterback — 28

Ryan Leaf, quarterback — 27

Major Applewhite, quarterback — 26

Ben Roethlisberger, quarterback — 25

Hugh Millen, quarterback — 24

David Carr, quarterback — 24

Brett Favre, quarterback — 22

Chris Simms, quarterback — 22

Michael Vick, quarterback — 20

Vinny Testaverde, quarterback — 18

Antwaan Randle El, wide receiver (former college quarterback) — 17

Aaron Brooks, quarterback — 16

Dan Marino, quarterback — 16

Vince Young, quarterback — 16 (previously rumored to have scored 6)[1]

Randall Cunningham, quarterback — 15

Donovan McNabb, quarterback — 12

Jeff George, quarterback — 10

[edit]

Average scores

This assessment roughly corresponds to the averages revealed, according to the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, by an NFL personnel man in Paul Zimmerman's "The New Thinking Man's Guide to Pro Football," which are:

 

Offensive tackles: 26

Centers: 25

Quarterbacks: 24

Guards: 23

Tight Ends: 22

Safeties: 19

Middle linebackers: 19

Cornerbacks: 18

Wide receivers: 17

Fullbacks: 17

Halfbacks: 16

The average scores in other professions are:

 

Chemist: 31

Programmer: 29

Newswriter: 26

Sales: 24

Bank teller: 22

Clerical Worker: 21

Security Guard: 17

RP Techs: 9

 

Sample questions

A sample Wonderlic Test posted by ESPN showed questions that varied in difficulty:

 

Q: The ninth month of the year is:

Pick One: October, January, June, September, or May.

Q. In printing an article of 48,000 words, a printer decides to use two sizes of type. Using the larger type, a printed page contains 1,800 words. Using smaller type, a page contains 2,400 words. The article is allotted 21 full pages in a magazine. How many pages must be in smaller type?[2]

 

 

 

(sorry about the lay out just a cut and paste.)

[Simon]

Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Rick Mirer and Cade McNown all scored in the high 20's.

Jim Kelly, Bradshaw, Donovan McNabb, Steve McNair and Dan Marino all scored 15 or less.