If this is Holcomb's team......

[BillsFanForever19]

Seriously folks. I don't know how many "Holcombites" there are on this board that are going to flame this, but it's the truth.

 

If J.P. Losman can't beat out Kelly Holcomb and he's so bad that Mularkey doesn't want to start him in a meaningless game, then we need to get another QB. Kelly Holcomb is a solid backup. He had MONSTER games in Cleveland as well. But he's just far too inconsistent to be a full-time starter.

 

Now in what fashion should we get another QB remains the question. Should we keep Holcomb and J.P. and bring in someone like Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsay, or Kyle Boller (EDIT: He might be kept after his solid outings the past couple games) to battle hoping that one of them just needs a change of scenery?

 

Should we lose the Jets game and move up a couple spots to grab Matt Leinart or Vince Young as the new savior? Or maybe even work a trade with San Diego to get Philip Rivers in here?

 

All in all, if we go into 2006 with Kelly Holcomb as the starting QB; we're not going to the playoffs. If we do, we're not going far. He's not the future of this team and I question whether or not he can be the present. It's obvious we have to rebuild this team from the ground up. Holcomb is not someone to build a new team around. If J.P.'s not the answer, we need to find someone who is.

[bluv]

Seriously folks. I don't know how many "Holcombites" there are on this board that are going to flame this, but it's the truth.

 

If J.P. Losman can't beat out Kelly Holcomb and he's so bad that Mularkey doesn't want to start him in a meaningless game, then we need to get another QB. Kelly Holcomb is a solid backup. He had MONSTER games in Cleveland as well. But he's just far too inconsistent to be a full-time starter.

 

Now in what fashion should we get another QB remains the question. Should we keep Holcomb and J.P. and bring in someone like Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsay, or Kyle Boller (EDIT: He might be kept after his solid outings the past couple games) to battle hoping that one of them just needs a change of scenery?

 

Should we lose the Jets game and move up a couple spots to grab Matt Leinart or Vince Young as the new savior? Or maybe even work a trade with San Diego to get Philip Rivers in here?

 

All in all, if we go into 2006 with Kelly Holcomb as the starting QB; we're not going to the playoffs. If we do, we're not going far. He's not the future of this team and I question whether or not he can be the present. It's obvious we have to rebuild this team from the ground up. Holcomb is not someone to build a new team around. If J.P.'s not the answer, we need to find someone who is.

544697[/snapback]

Agree %100. If KH proves us wrong, I'll eat crow. But if we don't win next year then I'd rather lose with a young 2nd year QB who is developing than spinning in place with a journeyman QB who puts up meaningless stats. And if JP isn't the guy then we need to move on. If this coaching staff was so convinvced that JP was ready last year what has changed so quick? I mean he only started 8 games and played well in a few; what do you expect from a 1st year starting QB, an All-Pro?

[zow2]

I think the Bills should get out of the business of "developing" a QB. Heck, in this age of free agency let other teams suffer through the growing pains of a young QB and let's make a play for young up and comers like Volek, Garrard, Sorgi, Shaub, Brad Van Pelt, etc....

 

I hope JP works out, believe me,,,,but if he can't beat out Holcomb in training camp next year then somethings wrong.

[dave mcbride]

Seriously folks. I don't know how many "Holcombites" there are on this board that are going to flame this, but it's the truth.

 

If J.P. Losman can't beat out Kelly Holcomb and he's so bad that Mularkey doesn't want to start him in a meaningless game, then we need to get another QB. Kelly Holcomb is a solid backup. He had MONSTER games in Cleveland as well. But he's just far too inconsistent to be a full-time starter.

 

Now in what fashion should we get another QB remains the question. Should we keep Holcomb and J.P. and bring in someone like Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsay, or Kyle Boller (EDIT: He might be kept after his solid outings the past couple games) to battle hoping that one of them just needs a change of scenery?

 

Should we lose the Jets game and move up a couple spots to grab Matt Leinart or Vince Young as the new savior? Or maybe even work a trade with San Diego to get Philip Rivers in here?

 

All in all, if we go into 2006 with Kelly Holcomb as the starting QB; we're not going to the playoffs. If we do, we're not going far. He's not the future of this team and I question whether or not he can be the present. It's obvious we have to rebuild this team from the ground up. Holcomb is not someone to build a new team around. If J.P.'s not the answer, we need to find someone who is.

544697[/snapback]

 

just playing devil's advocate - should the raiders have said the same thing about rich gannon after his first season with the team? he didn't hit his stride until his 13th season:

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/GannRi00.htm

[Robert Paulson]

i love it: 'holcombites'

 

this team has far too many questions on the o line, d line and both aged safety positions to even fantasize that this is a deep playoff team

 

if it was a potential deep playoff team this year or could be one next year than sure go with KH to put them over the top. he can manage a game and let a dominant special teams, D and running game be the focii.

 

the kool aid drinking fans and some of the kool aid drinking players might think we are close but we are not.

 

if the goal is to get into the playoffs next year so we can be destroyed by a real team- fine start KH and again limit the development of JP. but we can't get back the last 6 missed playoff years so forget about them - they should not enter into the thought process

 

if the goal is to be a top team for many years and win the super bowl then JP must start even if it means another season of pain. that is what he was drafted for. we should have had the season of pain last year and we blew the season of pain again this year.

 

starting KH gets us no closer to the super bowl in 2-4 years but maybe gets us slaughtered in the 1st round woopee

[ganesh]

i love it: 'holcombites'

 

this team has far too many questions on the o line, d line and both aged safety positions to even fantasize that this is a deep playoff team

 

if it was a potential deep playoff team this year or could be one next year than sure go with KH to put them over the top. he can manage a game and let a dominant special teams, D and running game be the focii.

 

544735[/snapback]

 

Can this team get that D and coaching into focus....I think the problems are

much deeper in those sections than the QB.

[Alaska Darin]

It's amazing to me how little so many of you people actually know about football. Simply remarkable.

[Mark VI]

It's amazing to me how little so many of you people actually know about football.  Simply remarkable.

544773[/snapback]

 

Draft Leinart.

 

Seriously folks.

[Silvercrw]

How can HOLCOMB be considered inconsistnet when he has only been given a chance for 12 NFL GAMES in his 9 year career. Hell for only 12 starts he looks pretty darn good to me. Imagine he started from a rookie on..........

[bluv]

i love it: 'holcombites'

 

this team has far too many questions on the o line, d line and both aged safety positions to even fantasize that this is a deep playoff team

 

if it was a potential deep playoff team this year or could be one next year than sure go with KH to put them over the top. he can manage a game and let a dominant special teams, D and running game be the focii.

 

the kool aid drinking fans and some of the kool aid drinking players might think we are close but we are not.

 

if the goal is to get into the playoffs next year so we can be destroyed by a real team- fine start KH and again limit the development of JP. but we can't get back the last 6 missed playoff years so forget about them - they should not enter into the thought process

 

if the goal is to be a top team for many years and win the super bowl then JP must start even if it means another season of pain. that is what he was drafted for. we should have had the season of pain last year and we blew the season of pain again this year.

 

starting KH gets us no closer to the super bowl in 2-4 years but maybe gets us slaughtered in the 1st round woopee

544735[/snapback]

Great post. This is why I said that the win was the worse win in Bills history and will set us back 2 years because of the "holcombites" as you put it, would act like this is a team that is ready, needs to win now with a consistent QB and that KH is that guy and should be starting for he gives us the best chance to win while JP rots on the bench. Then by the time we realize that KH isn't the answer they will go back to JP and try to sell his rebirth to us all over again. Look KH does not have the ability to carry this team and with him we may be competitive but nothing more than average.

[bluv]

How can HOLCOMB be considered inconsistnet when he has only been given a chance for 12 NFL GAMES in his 9 year career. Hell for only 12 starts he looks pretty darn good to me. Imagine he started from a rookie on..........

544785[/snapback]

You are sadly mistaken as he has played in at least 40 games and while his completion percentage is great that doesn't mean he is a good passer that stretches the field:

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/HolcKe00.htm

[Alaska Darin]

You are sadly mistaken as he has played in at least 40 games and while his completion percentage is great that doesn't mean he is a good passer that stretches the field:

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/HolcKe00.htm

544809[/snapback]

You're right, we should count garbage time stats against the guy. And the fact that he was on teams that had guys like Manning and Couch on the roster.

 

I prefer to actually watch football. After doing that, I've realized that Kelly Holcomb has the ability to read a defense and throw the ball to the correct receiver the majority of the time. He's able to keep less talented teams in games against good competition (playoff game vs Pittsburgh/last 2 games in Cincinnati).

 

Stretching the field is unbelievably overrated. Kerry Collins is the prototype QB guys like you look for - except he can't actually play football. Joe Montana couldn't stretch the field and Tom Brady struggles with his accuracy over 20 yards.

 

JP Losman is not ready to play in the NFL and Mike Mularkey and his staff are much better judges of that than you are. Playing the guy before they are ready is more likely to ruin them than making them sit on the bench. There is a ton of evidence to back that up.

 

Stop comparing Losman to Manning and Palmer. It's not valid.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Stop comparing Losman to Manning and Palmer.  It's not valid.

544821[/snapback]

 

Good, then cut him.

 

It's not fair to him or the fans to pull this yo-yo act. Either start him and see what you've got or cut him outright.

 

If Holcomb's your guy, then start him and name him the starter. Otherwise, I have a suggestion for the "leadership" at OBD....QUIT DICKING AROUND!

[Alaska Darin]

Good, then cut him.

 

It's not fair to him or the fans to pull this yo-yo act. Either start him and see what you've got or cut him outright.

 

If Holcomb's your guy, then start him and name him the starter. Otherwise, I have a suggestion for the "leadership" at OBD....QUIT DICKING AROUND!

544835[/snapback]

Is it so difficult a concept that a guy who played his college ball at Tulane simply isn't ready and that the mindset of the team is more important to the coaches than your feelings? Manning and Palmer played at Tennessee and USC for pro-style offenses with future NFL players all around them every day.

 

I love your rationale, as always. Extremism is awesome when it comes to football but crappy when terrorists are using it.

[smokinandjokin]

I prefer to actually watch football.  After doing that, I've realized that Kelly Holcomb has the ability to read a defense and throw the ball to the correct receiver the majority of the time.  He's able to keep less talented teams in games against good competition (playoff game vs Pittsburgh/last 2 games in Cincinnati).

 

Stretching the field is unbelievably overrated.  Kerry Collins is the prototype QB guys like you look for - except he can't actually play football.  Joe Montana couldn't stretch the field and Tom Brady struggles with his accuracy over 20 yards.

544821[/snapback]

 

Holcomb throws 2-yard passes on 4th & 7.

 

Terrible play call to send Moulds to the flat, and an even worse decision by KH to throw it to him.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I love your rationale, as always.  Extremism is awesome when it comes to football but crappy when terrorists are using it.

544852[/snapback]

 

Last I checked, football isn't live-or-die.

 

</facenda>

 

Anyhoo, McNair played where, McNeese State? Favre, where? SW Louisiania Redneck Tech? Sorry, but your opinion on this is wrong. The only way you're going to find out what the kid has is by CONSISTENT starts.

[Alaska Darin]

Holcomb throws 2-yard passes on 4th & 7.

 

Terrible play call to send Moulds to the flat, and an even worse decision by KH to throw it to him.

544854[/snapback]

Find me a QB who hasn't done something similiar (doesn't exist). BILLS fans act like we have the market cornered on bad decisions. How about the 11-3 Marvin Lewis running the ball less than 15 times against the 32nd ranked run defense in the league. Or burning a timeout on a challenge that he could have used late in the game?

[Alaska Darin]

Last I checked, football isn't live-or-die.

 

</facenda>

 

Anyhoo, McNair played where, McNeese State? Favre, where? SW Louisiania Redneck Tech? Sorry, but your opinion on this is wrong. The only way you're going to find out what the kid has is by CONSISTENT starts.

544855[/snapback]

Do I now need to toss a list of young QBs who got injured or lost their game completely because they were thrown to the wolves too early? I guarantee my list is going to be alot longer than yours.

[smokinandjokin]

Holcomb took a sack intentionally on the last play of the 1st half near the 50 against the Bengals because he didn't want to heave a Hail Mary and have it land at the 15 yard line. He never had any intention of throwing that ball, as he started running around all scared until he curled up under the arms of a defensive lineman.

[Alaska Darin]

Holcomb took a sack intentionally on the last play of the 1st half near the 50 against the Bengals because he didn't want to heave a Hail Mary and have it land at the 15 yard line.  He never had any intention of throwing that ball, as he started running around all scared until he curled up under the arms of a defensive lineman.

544879[/snapback]

So? What if it gets picked off and returned for a TD because the timing was all screwy? EVERY QB has plays like that - virtually every week. The difference between the good ones and the bad is minimalizing them and keeping your team in games.

[JimBob2232]

The problem is that Mularkey is not in the mindset of developing a QB. He is in the "win at all costs (to save my job)" mindset. This is the problem.

 

Also dont discount the possiblity that JP may actually BE injured.

[smokinandjokin]

So?  What if it gets picked off and returned for a TD because the timing was all screwy?  EVERY QB has plays like that - virtually every week.  The difference between the good ones and the bad is minimalizing them and keeping your team in games.

544881[/snapback]

 

The difference is, most NFL QB's can actually reach the endzone with a toss from midfield. KH knew he would barely make the 10 and didn't want the embarrassment.

[bbills17]

Seriously folks. I don't know how many "Holcombites" there are on this board that are going to flame this, but it's the truth.

 

If J.P. Losman can't beat out Kelly Holcomb and he's so bad that Mularkey doesn't want to start him in a meaningless game, then we need to get another QB. Kelly Holcomb is a solid backup. He had MONSTER games in Cleveland as well. But he's just far too inconsistent to be a full-time starter.

 

Now in what fashion should we get another QB remains the question. Should we keep Holcomb and J.P. and bring in someone like Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsay, or Kyle Boller (EDIT: He might be kept after his solid outings the past couple games) to battle hoping that one of them just needs a change of scenery?

 

Should we lose the Jets game and move up a couple spots to grab Matt Leinart or Vince Young as the new savior? Or maybe even work a trade with San Diego to get Philip Rivers in here?

 

All in all, if we go into 2006 with Kelly Holcomb as the starting QB; we're not going to the playoffs. If we do, we're not going far. He's not the future of this team and I question whether or not he can be the present. It's obvious we have to rebuild this team from the ground up. Holcomb is not someone to build a new team around. If J.P.'s not the answer, we need to find someone who is.

544697[/snapback]

 

I think you're dead wrong. A good football team could win a Superbowl with KH just as Dilfer did. And KH is a better QB than Dilfer was. He's a good QB, I don't care if he's not the ultimate future.

 

Trying to 'trial by fire' a QB is a total crapshoot, JP could turn out to be a bust so what's the point? I've said this before, and I'll say it again, a QB can develop just fine on the bench!! What is with you people feeling like he HAS to play now? Wake up and look around the NFL, plenty of QBs have developed on the bench and stepped in and played at a very high level. Bulger, Pennington, Hasselbeck, Brady, etc, etc. He can learn on the bench and play when he's good enough, he's not near there at this point.

[bbills17]

You're right, we should count garbage time stats against the guy. And the fact that he was on teams that had guys like Manning and Couch on the roster.

 

I prefer to actually watch football.  After doing that, I've realized that Kelly Holcomb has the ability to read a defense and throw the ball to the correct receiver the majority of the time.  He's able to keep less talented teams in games against good competition (playoff game vs Pittsburgh/last 2 games in Cincinnati).

 

Stretching the field is unbelievably overrated.  Kerry Collins is the prototype QB guys like you look for - except he can't actually play football.  Joe Montana couldn't stretch the field and Tom Brady struggles with his accuracy over 20 yards.

 

JP Losman is not ready to play in the NFL and Mike Mularkey and his staff are much better judges of that than you are.  Playing the guy before they are ready is more likely to ruin them than making them sit on the bench.  There is a ton of evidence to back that up.

 

Stop comparing Losman to Manning and Palmer.  It's not valid.

544821[/snapback]

 

Thank you for making some sense!! People here are stuck in the Losman-will-be-a-star mentality ala Palmer and it's ridiculous to compare them.

[PHAN]

KH has got a 92.3 QB rating..What more do you want.?

[BillsFanForever19]

I think you're dead wrong.  A good football team could win a Superbowl with KH just as Dilfer did.  And KH is a better QB than Dilfer was.  He's a good QB, I don't care if he's not the ultimate future.

544896[/snapback]

 

One HUGE difference though.....

 

Trent Dilfer didn't have to do anything because he had one of the greatest defenses in the history of the NFL backing his offense up.

 

We don't. We don't even have a mediocre defense.

[beerme1]

Stretching the field is unbelievably overrated.  Kerry Collins is the prototype QB guys like you look for - except he can't actually play football.  Joe Montana couldn't stretch the field and Tom Brady struggles with his accuracy over 20 yards.

 

 

Stop comparing Losman to Manning and Palmer.  It's not valid.

 

544821[/snapback]

 

ahem, ahem, stop throwing names like Brady and Montana out there when talking about Holcomb please.

It is most certainly not valid!!

[Tom]

Do I now need to toss a list of young QBs who got injured or lost their game completely because they were thrown to the wolves too early?  I guarantee my list is going to be alot longer than yours.

Let's see your list.

[Alaska Darin]

Let's see your list.

544986[/snapback]

Quarterbacks Drafted

 

Take your pick of successes vs failures in the first round. Ask yourself why guys like David Carr are being thrown under the bus because they can't perform behind woeful offensive lines.

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

OMG LOSMAN HAS A STRONG ARM START HIM NOW!!!

 

 

Look I get it JP Losman was the guy we invested draft picks in. Why I dont know but thats what the front office did. He does deserve an opportunity to prove himself, but comparing him to Manning or Palmer is invalid. Like AD pointed out he played at Tulane. It's not gonna happen overnight if at all for losman and I honestly doubt it will. He has physical talent, but I have my questions about him. He strikes me as a guy who thinks his physical talent will carry him along. Right now he's just not as good as Holcomb and thats not a knock. Theres a lot of qb's who aren't as good as KH. Holcomb has great accuracy, spreads the ball around to every receiver and knows how to manage an offense. So What he doesn't have the strongest arm. He's the type of qb you can win games with if you build around. He proved he can play playoff caliber football in cleveland and I'd like to see him get a real chance here.

 

 

I dont get the Holcomb bashing. The guy's done nothing but play well when given the chance here. Sat behind Peyton, sat behind couch when people had hope for him. I'd like to see KH get a fair shake. If nothing else his play this season has proven he deserves that opportunity. You talk about not understand "holcombites" I dont understand the love for a guy who's done nothing but played 2 good quaters of football just cause he was drafted. Build an oline for a run balanced team and rebuild the dline and I bet We stand a much better chance with Holcomb then we will with JP.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Quarterbacks Drafted

 

Take your pick of successes vs failures in the first round. Ask yourself why guys like David Carr are being thrown under the bus because they can't perform behind woeful offensive lines.

545084[/snapback]

 

Great page there.

 

So, how long do we have him sit and collect moss? Two more seasons? Three? At what point will he be "ready" enough to actually get in and play so we know what he is and is not capable of doing? And what do you do in the meantime? Start Kelly Holcomb, he of the 6-8 career record? I hope not.

[Gavin in Va Beach]

Last I checked, football isn't live-or-die.

 

</facenda>

 

 

544855[/snapback]

 

facenda?

[JimBob2232]

What you guys are missing is that Holcolmb is going to be 33 opening day next year. He is not young. He IS NOT THE FUTURE of this franchise. JP may not be either, but holcolmb is NOT.

[Alaska Darin]

Great page there.

 

So, how long do we have him sit and collect moss? Two more seasons? Three? At what point will he be "ready" enough to actually get in and play so we know what he is and is not capable of doing? And what do you do in the meantime? Start Kelly Holcomb, he of the 6-8 career record? I hope not.

545119[/snapback]

I don't know how long. I'm sure Sam Wyche probably does.

 

I think alot of people are selling Holcomb short. His career record isn't a very good measure. Look at his numbers against Pittsburgh in the playoffs. Then realize how poor the talent around him was in that game.

 

The thing that concerns me about KH is how he'll fair in a late season game when the wind blows. I think outside of that if you give him an average NFL oline and a defense that can play competently against the run he'll get you to the playoffs.

[stuckincincy]

Quarterbacks Drafted

 

Take your pick of successes vs failures in the first round. Ask yourself why guys like David Carr are being thrown under the bus because they can't perform behind woeful offensive lines.

545084[/snapback]

 

No doubt, but there is always a degree of pressure to get a 1st round qb into the action - whether it be from the fans, or from ownership wanting to see what it paid (often dearly) for.

[beerme1]

Theres a lot of qb's who aren't as good as KH.  Holcomb has great accuracy, spreads the ball around to every receiver and knows how to manage an offense.  So What he doesn't have the strongest arm.  He's the type of qb you can win games with  if you build around.  He proved he can play playoff caliber football in cleveland and I'd like to see him get a real chance here. 

I dont get the Holcomb bashing.  The guy's done nothing but play well when given the chance here. 

 

We stand a much better chance with Holcomb then we will with JP.

 

545098[/snapback]

 

OMG Flutie v Jhonson written all over it!

 

All he does is win

[EC-Bills]

Quarterbacks Drafted

 

Take your pick of successes vs failures in the first round. Ask yourself why guys like David Carr are being thrown under the bus because they can't perform behind woeful offensive lines.

545084[/snapback]

 

Hey great page! Those names brought back some memories. Naturally, I have an important question Didn't Scott Mitchell play for Utah State and not Utah?

[dave mcbride]

Hey great page!  Those names brought back some memories.  Naturally, I have an important question  Didn't Scott Mitchell play for Utah State and not Utah?

545138[/snapback]

he played for utah.

[bleedinblue]

KH has got a 92.3 QB rating..What more do you want.?

544909[/snapback]

John Elway has a career rating of 79.9, I think I may take him over Holcomb. Elway was 148-86 Holcomb is 4-3, passer rating is highly overrated.

[dave mcbride]

I don't know how long.  I'm sure Sam Wyche probably does. 

 

I think alot of people are selling Holcomb short.  His career record isn't a very good measure.  Look at his numbers against Pittsburgh in the playoffs.  Then realize how poor the talent around him was in that game.

 

The thing that concerns me about KH is how he'll fair in a late season game when the wind blows.  I think outside of that if you give him an average NFL oline and a defense that can play competently against the run he'll get you to the playoffs.

545128[/snapback]

AD, you're making waaaaaaaaay too much sense in this thread.

 

by the way, a legit knock against holcomb is that he has gotten hurt a bit over his career. of course, that may be entirely random and may never happen again.