The awful 1-4 Raiders

[Simon]

I keep reading over and over again (often from the same people) about how bad we suck because we couldn't beat the 1-4 Raiders. Have you people even seen what the Raiders have done this year? Look at this freakin' schedule they've started out with:

 

vs New England; lost by 10

vs Kansas City; lost by 6 on the last play of the game

vs Philadelphia; lost by 3 with :09 left in game

vs Dallas; won by 6

vs San Diego lost by 13

 

That's a brutal stretch and a lot of good teams might have come out of it at 1-4. While I don't thikn the Raiders are a real "good" team, they don't suck and going out to the West Coast to beat a solid team whose backs are against the wall is no easy trick.

 

Continue your regularly scheduled crying.......

[Coach Tuesday]

Agreed - but it would be nice if we could beat a GOOD team, in that case...

 

Also, would've been nice to force more than 1 punt.

[Frez]

Embarrassing

[Pete]

Good point but how do you explain the shellacking we got handed to us by the Saints

[Nanker]

Agreed - but it would be nice if we could beat a GOOD team, in that case...

483983[/snapback]

 

This team?

A West Coast Conference foe - on the road no less?

Surely you jest.

 

Actually I thought The Bills would win today. Didn't happen though. Did it?

[BuffOrange]

KC is a mediocre division rival and they lost at home in primetime.

They got the ball near midfield all day vs. Philly because the Eagles didn't have a kicker.

They got 2 weeks to prepare for SD with the Chargers coming off a short week and STILL got destroyed at home.

 

They're not a good team. Maybe not horrible, but the fact remains it was the most winable road game left on the schedule.

[Simon]

Agreed - but it would be nice if we could beat a GOOD team, in that case...

483983[/snapback]

No arguments there. Between the ClodTollins era, the exodus of Kelly/Thurman/BruceReed, homerunthrowback, RJ vs Flutie, just give it to'em, Butler jumping the leaky ship, the GW era and the Drew fiasco it has been a realy really realllllly frustrating 8 years. And watching us struggle to get over the hump the last couple years has been really unsatisfying.

While 2005 isn't a throwaway year, I think the Bills management recognized that 2006 and beyond provide a much better opportunity for us to compete for a conference title and I think they've planned accordingly. JP's slow start has everybody on edge (at least everybody who had convinced themselves that a 23yrold first year starter was going to light the league up) and delaying the inevitable permanent change in an effort to stay atop the division with a vet QB has also frayed some nerves.

It's a tough time to be a Bills fan, but times like these can tell an awful lot about a person (but hopefully not a fanbase ).

Cya

 

Embarrassing

Perhaps you could be more specific? What's embarassing?

 

how do you explain the shellacking we got handed to us by the Saints

Didn't see it so I can't say boo.

 

KC is a mediocre division rival and they lost at home in primetime.

They got the ball near midfield all day vs. Philly because the Eagles didn't have a kicker.

They got 2 weeks to prepare for SD with the Chargers coming off a short week and STILL got destroyed at home.

They're not a good team. Maybe not horrible, but the fact remains it was the most winable road game left on the schedule.

If you don't think that's a brutal stretch to open the season, we simply disagree.

As for winnable road games, I don't know offhand what teh schedule looks like, but I know we still go to miami and the Jest. I don't think either of thsoe teams is as good as the Raiders.

[CentralVaBills]

I keep reading over and over again (often from the same people) about how bad we suck because we couldn't beat the 1-4 Raiders. Have you people even seen what the Raiders have done this year? Look at this freakin' schedule they've started out with:

 

vs New England; lost by 10

vs Kansas City; lost by 6 on the last play of the game

vs Philadelphia; lost by 3 with :09 left in game

vs Dallas; won by 6

vs San Diego lost by 13

 

That's a brutal stretch and a lot of good teams might have come out of it at 1-4. While I don't thikn the Raiders are a real "good" team, they don't suck and going out to the West Coast to beat a solid team whose backs are against the wall is no easy trick.

 

Continue your regularly scheduled crying.......

483980[/snapback]

Yeah OK, everyone is crying. So, explain this then.....under the TD and MM era....The Tom Donahoe era is sickening. And the worst part is that this team walks around like it's sh-- doesn't stink. We look halfway decent agaisnt awful teams at home. And the rest we pretty much get our sh-- handed to us. Same logic as the Raiders record. How long does TD get?

 

23 Games of Data

 

Overall

 

Vs. teams under .500 (8-3)

Vs. teams at .500 (2-0)

Vs. teams over .500 (2-8) Best win vs. 10-6 NY Jets (home)

 

On the road......

 

Vs. teams under .500 (2-3) Worst Loss vs. 5-11 Oakland

Vs. teams at .500 (1-0)

Vs. teams over .500 (1-4) Best win vs. 9-7 Seattle

 

At home.....

 

Vs. teams under .500 (6-0) N/A

Vs. teams at .500 (1-0)

Vs. teams over .500 (1-4) Best win vs. 10-6 NY Jets

[CentralVaBills]

No arguments there. Between the ClodTollins era, the exodus of Kelly/Thurman/BruceReed, homerunthrowback, RJ vs Flutie, just give it to'em, Butler jumping the leaky ship, the GW era and the Drew fiasco it has been a realy really realllllly frustrating 8 years. And watching us struggle to get over the hump the last couple years has been really unsatisfying.

While 2005 isn't a throwaway year, I think the Bills management recognized that 2006 and beyond provide a much better opportunity for us to compete for a conference title and I think they've planned accordingly. JP's slow start has everybody on edge (at least everybody who had convinced themselves that a 23yrold first year starter was going to light the league up) and delaying the inevitable permanent change in an effort to stay atop the division with a vet QB has also frayed some nerves.

It's a tough time to be a Bills fan, but times like these can tell an awful lot about a person (but hopefully not a fanbase  ).

Cya

484010[/snapback]

LMAO.....OK. And what will your excuse, as well as TD's be when the AGING defense needs dismantled starting pretty much next year. Because this team was built to win now. In it's 5th yr under a new GM, don't you think we should have seen improvement by now? On top of that, by the time our offense gets good (and we don't even know if that will happen), the defense will need major re-structuring because of contracts and age. Our roster is a royal mess right now.

[BuffOrange]

If you don't think that's a brutal stretch to open the season, we simply disagree.

As for winnable road games, I don't know offhand what teh schedule looks like, but I know we still go to miami and the Jest. I don't think either of thsoe teams is as good as the Raiders.

484010[/snapback]

 

It's a tough stretch. We can split hairs about whether the Raiders are bad or just mediocre (surely they're not good) but either way we have to beat these kinds of teams if we ever want to go anywhere.

[CentralVaBills]

It's a tough stretch.  We can split hairs about whether the Raiders are bad or just mediocre (surely they're not good) but either way we have to beat these kinds of teams if we ever want to go anywhere.

484030[/snapback]

BINGO!

[JohnnyBravo]

Good point but how do you explain the shellacking we got handed to us by the Saints 

483989[/snapback]

 

unexplainable?

 

[Simon]

And what will your excuse, as well as TD's be when the AGING defense needs dismantled starting pretty much next year.

Dismantled next year?

Add a good young DT, get Spikes back and maybe upgrade Posey and we're good to go. That's a total addition of 2 players; hardly a dismantling.

 

In it's 5th yr under a new GM, don't you think we should have seen improvement by now?

I think we're better than we were 5 years ago, 4 years ago, 3 years ago and 2 years ago.

 

Our roster is a royal mess right now.

Compared to the '90's Bills, yes it is. Compared to the rest of the 2005 NFL, it's a pretty solid roster.

 

How long does TD get?

He gets at least next year. I'm just not ready to start all over when we dump a guy who I've seen be so good before. All personell guys, coaches, players, etc. go through rough patches and that may be exactlywhat we're seeing right now. What if putting these .500 teams on the field is the absolute worst job TD/Modrak do in the Bills front office. Are you really so eager to fire somebody whose worst work leaves us around .500? You're not interested to see what his best work looks like?

[CentralVaBills]

Dismantled next year? 

Add a good young DT, get Spikes back and maybe upgrade Posey and we're good to go. That's a total addition of 2 players; hardly a dismantling.

I think we're better than we were 5 years ago, 4 years ago, 3 years ago and 2 years ago.

Compared to the '90's Bills, yes it is. Compared to the rest of the 2005 NFL, it's a pretty solid roster.

He gets at least next year. I'm just not ready to start all over when we dump a guy who I've seen be so good before. All personell guys, coaches, players, etc. go through rough patches and that may be exactlywhat we're seeing right now. What if putting these .500 teams on the field is the absolute worst job TD/Modrak do in the Bills front office. Are you really so eager to fire somebody whose worst work leaves us around .500? You're not interested to see what his best work looks like?

484054[/snapback]

I'm not sure what you watch when we play a team over .500, but yes, this roster is a mess. Troy Vincent is done. Period. Today, he was afraid of contact. Lawyer Milloy is overpaid. He is supposedly a run stopping S. He misses more tackles against good teams then anyone I've seen play in a Bills uniform in a while. Nate Clements is way over-rated by Bills homers, ALTHOUGH, he is a solid CB. McGee is our most exciting player on this team period. As for Spikes, who doesn't love him? However, if his is 80% of what he was next year after an injury like that, it will be a miracle. Fletcher is OK at MLB. Posey sucks. He has no speed, no agility, but could be replaced by Crowell. Our defensive front is awful. They generate no pressure without us blitzing. You can talk all you want about Schobel and Denney and whoever the hell else we have, but they are bad. Period. I'm actually one of the few that likes how Sam Adams plays. But, in my estimation, Milloy, Vincent, Posey, and three DL'men should be gone. Spikes most likely will never be as good as he was. And they are gettting OLD as a group. A mess, hell yes they are. Let's not even touch our worthless TE's or a bad O-Line. How about a 2nd WR when Moulds is gone? The roster is a mess.

 

If you think this team is better than we were 5 years ago, you're dreaming. Better in terms of winning a game against the 2001 team...yeah. Better in terms of how this roster is formed? No way. TD has failed in building this team in it's current design. Every part of the teams game has failed against any team with a clue. To bad we can't play sub .500 teams at home every week.

 

Am I eager to get rid of TD? You bet your ass I am. Just like everyone in Pittsburgh was ready to can him. Just like everyone in Pittsburgh laughed when we got Mularkey and Clements also. I know that for a fact, cuz I'm from Pittsburgh, and I thought we got a steal at the time. Now, I'm ready for him to be outta town.

 

This team has you fooled. Our staff and this group of players has had it handed to them against almost every team that they have played that is over .500. And on the road, the teams aren't even .500 who have throttled us.

 

This is sickening. I have ZERO faith the Bills can win any game on the road. Little faith that they can beat someone with clue at home. And no faith in this staff to outcoach anyone except maybe Mike Martz.

[dave mcbride]

Dismantled next year? 

Add a good young DT, get Spikes back and maybe upgrade Posey and we're good to go. That's a total addition of 2 players; hardly a dismantling.

I think we're better than we were 5 years ago, 4 years ago, 3 years ago and 2 years ago.

 

484054[/snapback]

 

spikes in all likelihood will probably never be as good as he once was. the big problem, though, is the defensive tackles. adams is a very good player when he plays next to a space clogger (siragusa, pat williams, tez), but his shoot-the-gap style is murder (except on sporadic plays when he looks great individually) when he lines up next to a stiff, which is all the bills possess. milloy was beaten like a drum today. as well, milloy and adams are in their golden years - they're not going to get any better. they're not the worse defense in the league by a long shot, but they are mediocre and set up to slide a little next season without major roster improvements.

 

the offense is in ok shape, although i must confess that the card carrying pessimist in me is very worried about what i'm reading about losman in the national media (lenny p, etc.) since the preseason -- that the guy isn't any good and is not gonna be for some time if ever. now they may well be wrong, and buffalo fans like to think they know more than the national beat guys, but distance is often a blessing in evaluating a player (you don't focus too much on individual plays). as an aside, the national guys generally picked buffalo to be 7-9 or 8-8, and it looks like the bills will end up squarely in that neighborhood.

[BuffOrange]

I'm not sure what you watch when we play a team over .500, but yes, this roster is a mess.  Troy Vincent is done.  Period.  Today, he was afraid of contact.  Lawyer Milloy is overpaid.  He is supposedly a run stopping S.  He misses more tackles against good teams then anyone I've seen play in a Bills uniform in a while.  Nate Clements is way over-rated by Bills homers, ALTHOUGH, he is a solid CB.  McGee is our most exciting player on this team period.  As for Spikes, who doesn't love him?  However, if his is 80% of what he was next year after an injury like that, it will be a miracle.  Fletcher is OK at MLB.  Posey sucks.  He has no speed, no agility, but could be replaced by Crowell.  Our defensive front is awful.  They generate no pressure without us blitzing.  You can talk all you want about Schobel and Denney and whoever the hell else we have, but they are bad.  Period.  I'm actually one of the few that likes how Sam Adams plays.  But, in my estimation, Milloy, Vincent, Posey, and three DL'men should be gone.  Spikes most likely will never be as good as he was.  And they are gettting OLD as a group.  A mess, hell yes they are.  Let's not even touch our worthless TE's or a bad O-Line.  How about a 2nd WR when Moulds is gone?  The roster is a mess.

484092[/snapback]

 

I'm not nearly as down on the coaching staff as you, but otherwise a phenominal post.

 

When you think about it, Adams & Fletcher are the only 2 decent players we have on the front 7. For some reason people feel the need to prop up Schobel during the offseason, but during the season when the games and non-existent pass-rush are fresh in everybody's memory, I think pretty much everybody agrees that he can't play. He's like the poor man's A-Rod of football....hits homers with a 7 run lead in the 9th inning, but grounds out whenever it matters.

Milloy has missed tackles in EVERY game this year, not just against good teams.

 

Offensively, this franchise has been so awful for so long that I actually find it difficult to complain about a 17 pt output on the road, because it is clear they're not capable of anything more.

You can say what you want about the the OL or the WR's or the coaches, but basically the future is going to come down to JP. Maybe that's not fair to him, but the bottom line is that the kid has to turn into a stud for us to have any hope in '06.

[PromoTheRobot]

This team lost to the Saints, who gave up 52 points the follwing week after beating us. Slice and dice it all you want. It's still chicken sh*t.

 

PTR

[Simon]

Troy Vincent is done. Period. Today, he was afraid of contact.

Yeah, except for today when he saved a TD when Gray left Milloy twisting in the wind again. As a converted corner and coverage specialist he's not going to go head up on 240lb backs with a fulll head of steam. His job is not to stick people from the free, nor should he need to. His job is to put himself in the right postiions, recognizing offensive tendencies and his keys and to play the ball when he can. With 4 good interceptions in his first dozen games ever at the position, I'm not quite so eager to be rid of him as you seem to be.

Lawyer Milloy is overpaid. He is supposedly a run stopping S. He misses more tackles against good teams then anyone I've seen play in a Bills uniform in a while.

They're all overpaid; and Milloy had 5 tackles today and has been better since he got the cast off, and was much better before he had it put on.Did you want him to have 10 tackles?

Nate Clements is way over-rated by Bills homers, ALTHOUGH, he is a solid CB.

He's had 2 1/2 bad games this year after 18 3/4 good ones previously. I'm thinking that maybe he is really that good.

Posey sucks. He has no speed, no agility, but could be replaced by Crowell.

I think he's a great athlete, he's just a kitty. I don't think Crowell is stout enough to run on the strong side but finding strong 'backers isn't that hard do an upgrade there is not a big deal. Or you could leave Crowell where he is and move Spikes to the strongside, I don't ahve a problem with that.

Our defensive front is awful. They generate no pressure without us blitzing.

This is something that you and many others continue to say, but I don't think it's a realistic expectation. In the salary-cap era with league-wide parity almost nobody gets pressure with just their front 4 and that's a ridiculous standard to hold a GM to or else you want him fired. Who's done it? Baltimore in '99, Tampa in '02, Carolina 'til Jenkins went on the shelf, who else? What's that 3 teams in 5 years? And you want to tear it down and fire everybody because we can't do it? In this age you just can't put together a front4 that gets to the Qb on tis own, everybody has to blitz if they want to generate consistent pressure. I think our DC is overagressive and if he'd dial it back a little and let some talented players play, we wouldn't see so many of those blitzes and twists killing us in the air and especially on the ground. You add 1 good DT next to Adams and that front4 would look a hell of a lot different, if Gray quits getting them out of position calling twists on every other down.

Am I eager to get rid of TD? You bet your ass I am. Just like everyone in Pittsburgh was ready to can him.

That's nothing but a bald-faces lie. You must not be nearly as connected as you claim because every Stiller fan I know (and I've talked to more of them, more often than you over the last 15 years) was sorry to see him go after he'd kept them 30 games over .500 and had them in over a dozen playoff games over his tenure (and that's not even considering the 27 games over .500 and 7 or so playoff gmaes his roster has run up since he left).

 

 

This team has you fooled. Our staff and this group of players has had it handed to them against almost every team that they have played that is over .500. And on the road, the teams aren't even .500 who have throttled us.

This is sickening. I have ZERO faith the Bills can win any game on the road. Little faith that they can beat someone with clue at home. And no faith in this staff to outcoach anyone except maybe Mike Martz.

The reason you hav zero faith and think everybody else is a fool is because you're so convinced of your own superiority and intellligence. You know it's not that remote of a possibility that you're wrong.

[Simon]

give me my vig get outta my thread suckers. Take it to PM cuz in a while I'm going to remove these so my only game thread doesn't turn into your gambling thread.

Cya

[CentralVaBills]

Yeah, except for today when he saved a TD when Gray left Milloy twisting in the wind again. As a converted corner and coverage specialist he's not going to go head up on 240lb backs with a fulll head of steam. His job is not to stick people from the free, nor should he need to. His job is to put himself in the right postiions, recognizing offensive tendencies and his keys and to play the ball when he can. With 4 good interceptions in his first dozen games ever at the position, I'm not quite so eager to be rid of him as you seem to be.

 

They're all overpaid; and Milloy had 5 tackles today and has been better since he got the cast off, and was much better before he had it put on.Did you want him to have 10 tackles? He's had 2 1/2 bad games this year after 18 3/4 good ones previously. I'm thinking that maybe he is really that good.

 

I think he's a great athlete, he's just a kitty. I don't think Crowell is stout enough to run on the strong side but finding strong 'backers isn't that hard do an upgrade there is not a big deal. Or you could leave Crowell where he is and move Spikes to the strongside, I don't ahve a problem with that.

This is something that you and many others continue to say, but I don't think it's a realistic expectation. In the salary-cap era with league-wide parity almost nobody gets pressure with just their front 4 and that's a ridiculous standard to hold a GM to or else you want him fired. Who's done it? Baltimore in '99, Tampa in '02, Carolina 'til Jenkins went on the shelf, who else? What's that 3 teams in 5 years? And you want to tear it down and fire everybody because we can't do it? In this age you just can't put together a front4 that gets to the Qb on tis own, everybody has to blitz if they want to generate consistent pressure. I think our DC is overagressive and if he'd dial it back a little and let some talented players play, we wouldn't see so many of those blitzes and twists killing us in the air and especially on the ground. You add 1 good DT next to Adams and that front4 would look a hell of a lot different, if Gray quits getting them out of position calling twists on every other down.

That's nothing but a bald-faces lie. You must not be nearly as connected as you claim because every Stiller fan I know (and I've talked to more of them, more often than you over the last 15 years) was sorry to see him go after he'd kept them 30 games over .500 and had them in over a dozen playoff games over his tenure (and that's not even considering the 27 games over .500 and 7 or so playoff gmaes his roster has run up since he left).

The reason you hav zero faith and think everybody else is a fool is because you're so convinced of your own superiority and intellligence. You know it's not that remote of a possibility that you're wrong.

484169[/snapback]

I have to quit replying to your posts. Seriously, and it will make you happy anyway so no big deal. You're one of the biggest, clueless homers there are out there. Your comments here speak for themselves on alot of this stuff. I seriously stopped reading this after your Milloy and Vincent replies. To even defend anything that Milloy or Vincent did today says it all. Vincent is seriously afraid of contact. No doubting the fact that he ran alongside or away from contact today. I didn't want Milloy to have 1, 2, 3, 12, 15, or 25 tackles.....I didn't want him to miss a TON of tackles today like he did. He was awful. They were awful.

 

Most teams don't get pressure from their front four in today's game? Even if that is true, which it isn't totally true, WE DON'T GET ANY. Period. That's where this blitzing so much crap derived from. But, we are the only attacking defense that I've actually seen that plays so fuggin far off of the opposing WR's constantly. It baffles me. But the whole blitzing so much schemes, I would bet my house on, have come from our inability to apply pressure up front. Any kind of pressure at all. I employ a blitzing style of defense when I coach, and you usually pressure opposing teams WR's within the theory that the pass rush will get there quick enough that the CB's don't have to be perfect in coverages. Now, mix that with the self proclaimed "best CB in the league" Nate Clements and an improving McGee....why the hell are we not pressing WR's more? According to all of you geniuses on the board, Nate should be able to blanket one WR, while McGee covers the other with Vincent helping out over the top. Doesn't happen. Gray sat there today, playing off of the Raider WR's all fuggin day, and didn't adjust.

 

God, I just had to read more, because most of your comments boggle my mind. And a TON of Steeler fans hated Donahoe. More than 50%. It was a divided city. Either you liked Cowher or Donahoe. Period. There are a TON of Steeler fans that hated TD. Thought he was an ego-maniac. That he couldn't take Cowher's popularity. There are a TON that hated Mularkey's play calling in Pittsburgh. And to end that point.......which one got the boot? And are the Steelers a better football team without him? LMAO, the answers are Donahoe got booted, and the Steelers haven't looked back yet. I seriously loved when we got Donahoe, and argued with Steeler fans that we stole him. LOL, I'm also reminded of it every friggin weekend with numerous calls to my phone every Sunday, including last year's last game.

 

And yes, to an extent I am convinced I am a good football mind. I would love to coach against you. Anytime, anyday. Problem is, I am actually on a football field after school everyday (now 7-0 and ranked 7th in the state), while you critique anyone who has anything to say about a less than stellar FOOTBALL TEAM (and going on five years now) on a message board. These have been the hardest Bills teams to actually like the last few years in a long long time, because we all expected alot from them. With all of the names on the back of our jerseys, they are starting to remind me of the New York Rangers hockey teams. Paper Champs.

 

You're a great fan. Seriously. If I was a failing GM, you are what I would dream of. My dream would consist of 50,000 people like you who keep me in charge, depsite failing at my job, until it's so bad, a change has to be made. Seriously Simon, step away from the Kool-Aid pitcher, it's ok to expect more than a mediocre football team, at best, from a guy who's had the job for 5 years. It won't make you look bad, just like someone who isn't a "company line" lemming.

 

I'm done in this thread, which I know makes you happy. But if I was TD, you'd be on my Christmas list every year...you are the stuff dreams are made of for bad GM'ing.

 

So long for this thread for me, I'm gonna go dream of Charlie Weis coaching this team against what would have been his old New England team next week. If only he wasn't so damn arrogant in his interview scheduling. After all, who cares if knows anything about football, right TD?