stevestojan Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 The obvious question: If you were Head Coach, Do you start Holcomb due to JP's terrible play thus far, hoping to get a "spark" and salvage the season OR Do you start JP, sticking with him through the Ups and Downs (admittedly more downs than ups) and possibly give up on playoff hopes. ----------- I vote for JP, obviously, because I'm not sure that we have playoff hopes either way, and all this does is crush JP, set him back developmentally, and marks the official start to the QB controversy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony P Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Anything can happen over the off-season: injuries, FA defections, retirements... If you (Bills management) believe that your team has the ability to win the division or be a Wild Card team, you must make this move. JP's development may be slowed a bit but the team just can't continue to throw away opportunities. If the D continues to suck and they continue to lose games, then you can put JP back in for the second half of the season to get his OTJT. However, if you beat the Phish and the Jests in the next two weeks, you're right back in the hunt for the division. Now's the time to make the move. 7 of 15 for 75 yds and a pick ain't gonna do it. I say that if we (as fans) want the Bills to make a run at the division, we applaud this move. Way too much can happen between now and "next year" to waste the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bflo83 Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 Hey Steve - Can you add these results to your poll?: http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showtopic=32363 BTW you forgot about Shane Matthews - the secret weapon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted October 7, 2005 Author Share Posted October 7, 2005 Hey Steve - Can you add these results to your poll?: http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showtopic=32363 BTW you forgot about Shane Matthews - the secret weapon! 468447[/snapback] oops .. my bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 I would agree with replacing JP if everyone else was playing well except him, or if he fumbled/got incercepted several times a game, but that's simply not the case. JP has not played well the last 3 games, but he is NOT the key reason why the team is losing. In my view the 3 main reasons for our record are: 1) Game mismanagement by the OC and DC (and MM's failure to rein them in). Clements' body of work thus far has consistently put us in 3rd-and-long situations that make long sustained drives all but impossible - especially on the road. As for Gray, his blitz at all cost mentality and drilling into the players' heads they they need to be the all-time best D has led the players to believe they need to make heroic plays every time, causing them to put themselves out of position in key situations. 2) Offensive line play - Clements appears to be trying to help the OL by passing on 1st down, trying to keep the D off balance. But, the OL's inability to sustain blocks has put JP under constant pressure, even when they use play action. That fact, plus JP's inaccuracy when he can set and throw, puts the Bills in long distance situations that a) reduces the number of times you can subsequently run the ball on that series and b) leads to punts more often than not. 3) Failure of the defense and special teams to dominate as they did last year. Maybe we were spoiled last year, but the D and ST seemed to consistently set us up for scores last year and that just has not happened yet. When we've scored this year, it's always the hard way and not with a short field. To bring me back to the poll, I think that JP is being scapegoated here. Several things need to come together in order for us to win, and not just replacing the QB. If we beat the Fins, it will be because of 1 or 2 of the above 3 variables has improved, not because we have a new guy at the QB spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 I would agree with replacing JP if everyone else was playing well except him, or if he fumbled/got incercepted several times a game, but that's simply not the case. JP has not played well the last 3 games, but he is NOT the key reason why the team is losing. In my view the 3 main reasons for our record are: I think just the opposite. He isn't being sat down because it's "his fault". If the rest of the team was playing well, I think it would give JP a chance to work his way through the problems. But with the whole team playing as poorly as it is, JP has no chance and is only going to continue to get crushed, which could very well harm his LT development. Sit him down, let him watch and collect his head for a few weeks while we see if Holcomb can help create some momentum for the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper13 Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 Shane Mathews. Just so I can hear Chris Berman say "Shane Mathews Band" on Primetime Sunday Night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 I think just the opposite. He isn't being sat down because it's "his fault". If the rest of the team was playing well, I think it would give JP a chance to work his way through the problems. But with the whole team playing as poorly as it is, JP has no chance and is only going to continue to get crushed, which could very well harm his LT development. Sit him down, let him watch and collect his head for a few weeks while we see if Holcomb can help create some momentum for the team. 468526[/snapback] Agreed. This may very well be beneficial to Losman in the long term. It could also save the jobs a some individuals on the coaching staff and in the front office, whether or not job security is deemed a positive outcome of all this. If the Bills start winning with Holcomb, no one will give much of a damn about the politics and implications of it all. Bottom line, the season is on the line at this point in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 JP...this team isnt a playoff caliber team, and if we somehow snuck in, it isnt worth sacrificing Jp's development just to get our azzes handed to us by Pitt or Cincy in the wildcard round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 I'd have to run it up the pole and see who salutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 Kelly 498852[/snapback] Oh now who's being ambiguos Marge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diver Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 The vote is in. Make it happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 Who said that playing JP means giving up hope of the playoffs? Exactly what has Holcomb shown that makes him the second coming of Jim Kelly? If Tom Clements wasn't busy looking at his colon while running the ball on just 40 percent of the plays with a fuggin rookie QB, this whole thing never happens. Now that we're running on 60 percent, the O is plugging along (but still not scoring). Too much of TC' cutesy playcalling is what got JP out of the starting spot. So what happens now? Sounds like MM will put JP in at some point this year. Is he always going to be looking over his shoulder? This is the same scenario that Tim Couch went through in Cleveland, (with the same backup QB) and look how great that turned out. Sorry, but until further notice, we are now on par with the Cleveland Browns with reaching new heights of futility b/c of coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmh6476 Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 I wanted to start a thread, but thought it would be redundant for previous discussions you guys have probably had. But my 2 questions would have been: 1. Which QB gives you the best chance to win this Sunday vs the Chiefs? and 2. What is best for the long-term development of the club in your opinion? Playing Holcombe and letting JP watch from the sidelines, or throwing JP to the wolves and letting him mature as he goes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 Who said that playing JP means giving up hope of the playoffs? Exactly what has Holcomb shown that makes him the second coming of Jim Kelly? If Tom Clements wasn't busy looking at his colon while running the ball on just 40 percent of the plays with a fuggin rookie QB, this whole thing never happens. Now that we're running on 60 percent, the O is plugging along (but still not scoring). Too much of TC' cutesy playcalling is what got JP out of the starting spot. So what happens now? Sounds like MM will put JP in at some point this year. Is he always going to be looking over his shoulder? This is the same scenario that Tim Couch went through in Cleveland, (with the same backup QB) and look how great that turned out. Sorry, but until further notice, we are now on par with the Cleveland Browns with reaching new heights of futility b/c of coaching. 499212[/snapback] Holcomb is not the second coming of Jim Kelly, and Losman is not the second coming of Holcomb, at this point...he has not even been the second coming of Rob Johnson...he is not ready to start! Don't misplace all your hate on Holcomb, because Losman was below everybody's expectations....remember what Jeff Buckley said! You know the part about "evasion of reality!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duey Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 So pretty much 3 of 4 Wallers surveyed prefer taking our lumps with JP in the name of next season vs. stringing out the inevitable with KH. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 So pretty much 3 of 4 Wallers surveyed prefer taking our lumps with JP in the name of next season vs. stringing out the inevitable with KH. Interesting. 499666[/snapback] I voted for Holcomb because I want to see how he and the entire team (especially the veterans) respond after whatever changes they hopefully made during the bye. But if the Bills lose to the Chiefs at home, then it's proof enough to me that they're not playoff material, and I will then be all for starting Losman for the rest of the year. And if the team beats the Chiefs but still loses to the Chargers in SD (which would make them 0-5 on the road in 2005 ), I will also be for Losman starting for the rest of the season. But if the Bills under Holcomb make it to 5-5 (meaning a 4-2 resurgence after JP's 1-3 start), I will continue to support Holcomb until the Bills are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOHNNYFAIRPLAY Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 Um, i think indefinitely Losman. Season is shot, even if NE loses this weekend coming up. Miami is better than we are and they are going to beat us on Dec. 3rd (i hate to admit that). So Losman is the way to go IMO. ps..........................that show Lost, yeah, it sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 Miami is better than we are and they are going to beat us on Dec. 3rd (i hate to admit that). So Losman is the way to go IMO. 499841[/snapback] ??????? That is something I will disagree with. If anything Miami is at about the same level as us right now but not better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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