Simon Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 I'm interested to see which guy shows up. We've got Holcomb, who I've seen go balls to the wall as a total gunslinger, attacking defenses all over the field like they'd just slapped his mama. Or we've got Kelly, who I've seen tip-toeing around afraid to let go of the ball and playing like he was scared of his own shadow. If Holcomb shows up and we get to play the phish O with a lead, we should win going away. If Kelly shows up all bets are off and it's going to be a frustrating game that is decided late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeyemike Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 My two cents here, since I've seen Kelly Holcomb more than most of you. Good, smart veteran quarterback. A fine team player...you won't see the Flutie/RJ virus infect him. Not the long term answer at QB. That's JP, but he's obviously not ready now. So, he should sit back and learn from Holcomb...how he handles himself, how Kelly reads defenses, etc. The problem with Holcomb is that his best games have come in LOSSES for his team...ie, the playoff game against the Steelers and the 58-48 game against the Bengals last year. Butch Davis tried to make Holcomb the starter for the Browns in 2003...and it didn't work. The Browns collapsed and finished 5-11. Holcomb is not a long-term starting QB in the NFL; he's proven that. Holcomb is more like an Earl Morrall for you fans from the early 70s...a true professional and a nice relief pitcher. And I'm talking Morrall when he was with the Dolphins, not the Morrall who was the 1968 NFL MVP. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted October 7, 2005 Author Share Posted October 7, 2005 Holcomb is more like an Earl Morrall for you fans from the early 70s...a true professional and a nice relief pitcher. And I'm talking Morrall when he was with the Dolphins, not the Morrall who was the 1968 NFL MVP. 468556[/snapback] You and Simon have similar opinions on Holcomb's abilities and this is another of the things that in my mind strongly support the move. For Sunday. And maybe for another 3 or 4 games. But I expect to see JP play even Sunday if Holcomb discovers some life in our choking offense. The kid was put on display as an elusive guy in the mold of Michael Vick and he's clearly not. The coaching staff fell in love with his foot speed and they forgot to make him a QB first- and right now he's not even that. The kid himself is dealing far better with this than one body of our fans- he's said the team needs to do what the team needs to do and I applaud him for that. Last week was a game to gauge progress- out of conference, on the road- I saw enough progress for a little while. This week isn't a gauge game- this is our season. We lose to Miami we become a grasping team who can't afford any letdowns, and even the good teams in the league suffer letdowns. I'm looking forward to this football game to tell me more about my team than I've been able to decipher from the first 4 games while we've been bringing up the kid. And I think the kid at this point can actually benefit more by having the pressure taken off for a week- or maybe a few weeks. Not to mention our coaching staff might just benefit from it too. Hopefully when they bring the kid back they recognize that they have to make him into a QB first and save the acrobatics for later in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 I'm interested to see which guy shows up.We've got Holcomb, who I've seen go balls to the wall as a total gunslinger, attacking defenses all over the field like they'd just slapped his mama. Or we've got Kelly, who I've seen tip-toeing around afraid to let go of the ball and playing like he was scared of his own shadow. If Holcomb shows up and we get to play the phish O with a lead, we should win going away. If Kelly shows up all bets are off and it's going to be a frustrating game that is decided late. 468547[/snapback] I'm not sure that's a fair assessment given the talent that was around him in Cleveland. I don't think Jim Kelly would have been tough enough to stand tall in the pocket with that group of OLine/Skill (and I'm using that term VERY loosely) players. Butch Davis was an idiot in Cleveland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 I believe this team has playoff calibre players. Be patient. 468126[/snapback] I think a few players are playoff caliber, but our OL and our run defense are piss-poor. To boot, our coaches seem to be unable to adjust to game-time situations, and that is the killer. I was willing to be REAL patient for JP. I'm positing that if KH comes in and doesn't take us to the playoffs, and he had better, the coaches/management/whomever made this decision has made things far worse than had we struggled for a whole season under JP. Are we patient enough for JP to take more lumps later, or to find out even later that we have to groom yet another new guy? I'm not sure we are. He didn't, nor will he have to. With all of the bitching going on around here, it sounds like we fans have created it, not the coach, His job is to try and win games. If a couple of fans get their feathers ruffled because mother didn't hold them enough as infants that's their problem, not mine, not his. 468126[/snapback] Mularkey has absolutely created this monster by jerking around the guy he says is absolutely starting from the get-go. Fans and media are just playing into it. If he didn't give Holcomb this window, the KH possibility would just be a looming speculation, and MM would get credit for sticking with his guy. Maybe not with the whiniest veterans, but how much longer do we want those guys here anyway? I want the ones who are ready to build something. Hmm. Well, considering that alternative is pissing and moaning like a bunch of schoolgirls on an internet message board... I'm still waiting for my shrooms. Pass them and the KY too. 468126[/snapback] I'm still waiting for this team to stop spinning its tires. I want to rebuild rather than embrace mediocrity and phantom playoff almost-runs. Exactly. I would have prefered to let Losman mature for another year myself, but that's not the case. Too bad Bledsoe was chased out of town... Either way, it's not permanent. Just relax and roll with it. 468126[/snapback] I think there might be some truth to Losman's perhaps having needed another year or half-season a la Pennington to sharpen up. But they made the decision and now they're backtracking. I think this hurts Losman immeasurably, especially if he's going to be thrown to the wolves in a difficult second-half schedule. I'd relax and roll with it if I didn't care too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 read moulds quotes......sounds like a guy in his contract year 468182[/snapback] The worst part was he was the one complaining about Bledsoe at the end of last season. He was the one campaigning for the JP-era to begin. He has certainly changed his tune. He can do that though, but he better not be putting any blame on MM or the caches, because he thought the same thing that they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 Throw away opportunity for potential? Not this fan. Opportunity is fleeting, potential is omnipresent. Win football games. Now. 468005[/snapback] the best post in a while. nice and succinct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 I'm not sure that's a fair assessment given the talent that was around him in Cleveland. I don't think Jim Kelly would have been tough enough to stand tall in the pocket with that group of OLine/Skill (and I'm using that term VERY loosely) players. Butch Davis was an idiot in Cleveland. 468627[/snapback] I'm also not sure our offensive playcalling is much better than Butch Davis'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UteBills Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 What is up with all these posts? Is everyone called this season a failure? KH is going to have an ok game...get us the "W" and then all of these boards will be abuzz about the playoffs again... Support the team and the Coaching staff,,,,,they will figure it out...thats what they get paid to do.... ps Give WM the freakin ball more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udonkey Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 Give WM the freakin ball more... 468909[/snapback] More of this, less KH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 its good to know at least some bills fans are keep their head on straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frez Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 Keeping their head on straight? Can you imagine what the Bills locker room is like right now? This team is a mess bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted October 7, 2005 Author Share Posted October 7, 2005 Keeping their head on straight? Can you imagine what the Bills locker room is like right now? This team is a mess bud. 468933[/snapback] Another way to look at the quotes is that "team" seems to be pretty strong while the QB change is making the headlines. The quotes from Moulds and Evans seem reasoned and the ones attributed to JP suggest that he can understand if not fully appreciate the decisionmaking and he also supports "all for one" with the goal being win now. The young QB and his teammates all agree we should do those things that put us in the best position to win now. I'd say if there's anyplace where things are a "mess" it's out here in fandom, with some fans saying winning now is of less importance than developing our future QB while others side with the players, team and management by supporting winning now at all costs. Personally it seems it's pretty shortsighted to ignore the weakened state of our division and not do all in our power to win over the next 4 weeks. Reassessing at the split would seem to make a lot more sense as far as recognizing whether we have any realistic shot at the playoffs or if we've gotten too far behind to make a run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 It is clear to me that most of those who deplore this move are feeling this way due to leftover hatred for Bledsoe. JP was to be their shining star, their savior, brought to them by their icon, TD. Agree? 468280[/snapback] Not by me. I'd rather see JP start, but more importantly, I don't want to lose to Miami. Holcomb is a much better QB than Brain Dead Drew, and I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do on Sunday. JP's time will still come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 7, 2005 Share Posted October 7, 2005 I agree. I think he is a solid vet backup. But when your starter craps himself, that is why you sign a vet back up. Now if Kelly craps himself, we know we can safely flush the season. Until then..... 468056[/snapback] I am in agreement with the Coach.... I seem to remember there were two reasons why we were (the majority of us was) happy about bring in Kelly Holcomb to back up JPL - In the even that his head first style of play lands him on the IR again....we had a experienced vet backup QB to step in - In the event that JPL struggled so badly that we just knew he wasn't ready WELL FOLKS THAT HAPPENED At one time we were talking on this board like we had the deepest group of QB's in the league with JPL, Holcomb (veteran who has starting playoff exp), and Mathews (who has done nothing on this team to make us beleive he CANT get it done) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawnboy1977 Posted October 8, 2005 Share Posted October 8, 2005 In a Wildcard Playoff against the Pittsburgh Steelers in 2003, Kelly Holcomb threw for the third most passing yards in NFL postseason history. A) His running game featured William Green, a career disappointment who has even today never run for 1000 yards in a season over his career. B) He was throwing to a receiving corps of Kevin Johnson, Dennis Northcut, Quincy Morgan plus our very own Mark Campbell at TE. C) He was protected by an offensive line consisting of Ryan Tucker, Paul Zakauskas, a twilight Dave Wohlabaugh, Ross Verba and Barry Stokes. (Lori- feel free to correct me here) D) It was Holcomb’s first start in 14 games for the Browns. 467970[/snapback] Hey didn't Rob Johnson have agame like that once, whatever became of him? kidding, seriously though who give a monkey's butt what he did in a losing playoff game 3 years ago, we only care abou the next game. or, as Marty Schott says, ONE PLAY AT A TIME!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted October 8, 2005 Share Posted October 8, 2005 In a Wildcard Playoff against the Pittsburgh Steelers in 2003, Kelly Holcomb threw for the third most passing yards in NFL postseason history. A) His running game featured William Green, a career disappointment who has even today never run for 1000 yards in a season over his career. B) He was throwing to a receiving corps of Kevin Johnson, Dennis Northcut, Quincy Morgan plus our very own Mark Campbell at TE. C) He was protected by an offensive line consisting of Ryan Tucker, Paul Zakauskas, a twilight Dave Wohlabaugh, Ross Verba and Barry Stokes. (Lori- feel free to correct me here) D) It was Holcomb’s first start in 14 games for the Browns. 467970[/snapback] His win total against teams not .500 or less......ZERO- Davis handed him the job Couch earned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted October 8, 2005 Share Posted October 8, 2005 Hey didn't Rob Johnson have agame like that once, whatever became of him? kidding, seriously though who give a monkey's butt what he did in a losing playoff game 3 years ago, we only care abou the next game. or, as Marty Schott says, ONE PLAY AT A TIME!!!! 469766[/snapback] Rob Johnson had Tony Boselli at LT; and a solid offensive line to work with in general. Had we given Johnson the same kind of pass protection, maybe his stay here would have been longer. Holcomb's success came without an offensive line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted October 8, 2005 Share Posted October 8, 2005 His win total against teams not .500 or less......ZERO- Davis handed him the job Couch earned 469864[/snapback] QBs don't have win totals. TEAMS have win totals. Any time your QB puts up over 400 yards and 3 TDs, only a fool would blame him for the loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts