How bad is the M. Williams Pick Going to Look

[San-O]

Is there anybody else out there that is really driven nuts that we

have a $9,000,000/Yr. right tackle, and may lose a really good cover corner?

 

I know he was "slotted" for that money. Even worse, as that means Ol' Whitey

KNEW it would cost a ton of many.

 

Looked back over the last ten years of drafts, at there we no RTs taken in

the top ten.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

Having the money isn't the issue/problem with Clements. It's paying him the money that is.

[Gene Frenkle]

Is there anybody else out there that is really driven nuts that we

have a $9,000,000/Yr. right tackle, and may lose a really good cover corner?

 

I know he was "slotted" for that money.  Even worse, as that means Ol' Whitey

KNEW it would cost a ton of many.

 

Looked back over the last ten years of drafts, at there we no RTs taken in

the top ten.

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Who was there that was worth #4 money? Maybe Freeney, but he was considered undersized by nearly everyone at the time and was somewhat of a reach for Indy. I guess you're assuming it's easy to trade out of the top 10? There's a reason teams don't want to draft there, and you're looking at it in Mike Williams' contract.

 

What would you have done???

[San-O]

Having the money isn't the issue/problem with Clements.  It's paying him the money that is.

413145[/snapback]

 

I understand.

 

You can't have the kind of money we are talking about tied up in two players,

I don't think.

[Rico]

I understand.

 

You can't have the kind of money we are talking about tied up in two players,

I don't think.

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That's why Nate has a better chance of being here next year than MW.

[San-O]

Who was there that was worth #4 money?  Maybe Freeney, but he was considered undersized by nearly everyone at the time and was somewhat of a reach for Indy.  I guess you're assuming it's easy to trade out of the top 10?  There's a reason teams don't want to draft there, and you're looking at it in Mike Williams' contract.

 

What would you have done???

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Yes, I would have traded out of that pick. The Bills had just come off

a 3-13 season, and I thought we needed more picks, and more value, not

a # 4 overall right tackle.

 

I also contend that he was envisioned to be a left tackle, which just isn't going to

work out.

[San-O]

That's why Nate has a better chance of being here next year than MW.

413155[/snapback]

 

Never thought of that.

 

Do you really think TD will let MW go? That would be like admitting a mistake.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Yes, I would have traded out of that pick.  The Bills had just come off

a 3-13 season, and I thought we needed more picks, and more value, not

a # 4 overall right tackle.

 

I also contend that he was envisioned to be a left tackle, which just isn't going to

work out.

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You need someone that wanted that pick. Plus, mike Williams was drafted to play RT, not LT. It was never said by anyone but fans that Mike Williams should or would move to LT.

[Rico]

Never thought of that.

 

Do you really think TD will let MW go?  That would be like admitting a mistake.

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It'd be a far bigger mistake IMO letting Nate go.

 

Next year for the 1st time, the cap hit for cutting MW will not be cost-prohibitive... not cheap, but definitely manageable. Unless he turns into the next Erik Williams this year, he's clearly not worth all that jack, no matter how improved. If he doesn't take a salary cut, I predict he will be cut.

[San-O]

You need someone that wanted that pick.  Plus, mike Williams was drafted to play RT, not LT.  It was never said by anyone but fans that Mike Williams should or would move to LT.

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Which makes it an even bigger mistake. Or, TD isn't being straight about it.

 

Do you know how many RT's have been drafted in the top ten

over the last ten years?

[Brandon]

It doesn't look bad. The Bills needed a major OL upgrade and Mike Williams has been a solid starter, if overpaid. That is indeed the price you pay for having a top 5 draft pick.

 

Just looking at the first round from 2002, who would you have rather had? Dwight Freeney, as mentioned above, clearly would've been a better choice. That draft really wasn't overly impressive, in hindsight, and kind of underscores why having a top five draft pick sucks in this day and age. Unless the guy comes in immediately and plays like an All Pro, his salary is so high that if he needs time to develop, he's going to be viewed as a bust, at least by some.

[jc707270]

Who played rt for us the year before drafting Big mike?? What I'm getting at is I don't see the argument to say this was a mistake. if I remember correctly we needed to upgrade the o-line, by getting a left tackle first (mckinney was the best option and he hasn't done anything). The bills instead decided to get a right tackle in big mike. But i think were all assuning they wanted to switch him to the left side. Were assuming they could have just traded the pick, and I can't see how we give him less than what he got considering he was slotted to make that money? So I can't imagine what else would have been done? The pick at the time seemed great, but for the money now seems bad. That's why there are no sure bet draft picks, at least not many. I'll have to look and see who else we could have taken!

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Which makes it an even bigger mistake.  Or, TD isn't being straight about it.

 

Do you know how many RT's have been drafted in the top ten

over the last ten years?

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3. Gallery, Williams, and Jordan Gross. 2 this past year went in the 1st. Thats 5 in the last 4 or 5 years. Good enough?

 

Gallery, right now, is a RT and the Raiders have said they have no plans on moving him.

 

Who left a team and got more Money than Jennings? A RT, Kareem McKenzie.

[San-O]

Who played rt for us the year before drafting Big mike?? What I'm getting at is I don't see the argument to say this was a mistake. if I remember correctly we needed to upgrade the o-line, by getting a left tackle first (mckinney was the best option and he hasn't done anything). The bills instead decided to get a right tackle in big mike. But i think were all assuning they wanted to switch him to the left side. Were assuming they could have just traded the pick, and I can't see how we give him less than what he got considering he was slotted to make that money? So I can't imagine what else would have been done? The pick at the time seemed great, but for the money now seems bad. That's why there are no sure bet draft picks, at least not many. I'll have to look and see who else we could have taken!

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I find it hard to believe that no other team would have traded with Buffalo

to get out of that pick.

 

Bad pick when it occured. You don't draft right tackles #4 overall, not in the last ten years of drafts, unless you're TD.

 

If noone wanted the pick, you always have the option to "pass" on your pick.

 

Teams have done it before.

[Brandon]

I find it hard to believe that no other team would have traded with Buffalo

to get out of that pick.

 

Bad pick when it occured.  You don't draft right tackles #4 overall, not in the last ten years of drafts, unless you're TD.

 

If noone wanted the pick, you always have the option to "pass" on your pick.

 

Teams have done it before.

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Passing on a pick is suicidal for a GM.

[jc707270]

Did some research and Roy williams looked like the next best player that would have filled a need. Also I think the bills were talking about picking him up, but wanted to move down a few slots to do so. I don't think there have been many safties picked top five in the last 10 years so we still would have been shelling out the doe although we probably would have a more productive player in williams, but still a big risk. Also marques sullivan was our rt, so I could see wanting an upgrade. Jonas was playing left already. I think the o-line coach at the time mentioned putting jonas at center and big mike eventually at left, but that's why that coach and coaches are not here anymore. Also schobel played rde and I think so does freeny, so I couldn't really see why we would have drafted freeny other than he's a freakin monster. The bills were not really in the position to do best availabe at that time. But if freeny could play lde, then he would have been a good pick also?

[San-O]

3.  Gallery, Williams, and Jordan Gross.  2 this past year went in the 1st.  Thats 5 in the last 4 or 5 years.  Good enough?

 

Gallery, right now, is a RT and the Raiders have said they have no plans on moving him.

 

Who left a team and got more Money than Jennings?  A RT, Kareem McKenzie.

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There were no RT's taken in the top ten in the 2005 draft.

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/drafttracker/round/round1

 

Get your facts straight.

 

Oh yeah, Jordan started all 16 games last year, 2004 at LT.

[Brandon]

If the Bills thought Freeney would've developed into what he is today, they should've picked him, regardless of the presence of Schobel. Freeney is a much better player. If that would have meant sending Schobel to the bench or trading him, so be it. That said, its all a matter of hindsight and I doubt the Bills viewed Freeney as a can't miss prospect. At least, I hope not.

 

Our RT at the time actually was Jonas Jennings, who played RT as a rookie in 2001. Sullivan played RG.

[jc707270]

Hard to believe are you kidding? Why would another team want to have the #4 pick. You gotta have someone who wants someone to move up and pick higher. There was nobody worth doing it for in that draft. Also if it was a bad pick, then who could we have drafted?? freeny I believe plays the same position as schobel who we had just drafted the year before. Roy williams at saftey would have been good but a couple slots lower. Why would someone just say hey will help you guys out. If your gonna say it's a bad pick, ok then. But blame the scouts also and not just TD. Both are responsible! To pass on the pick would just be foolish and you know it. That just says you don't like TD which is fine cause I have problems with him to, but come on. You and every other bills fan would have ripped his head off at the neck if he would have just passed on the pick!

[MadBuffaloDisease]

It's all hindsight. Roy Williams would have been the next best player, but would you want to be paying a SS what Big Mike is making, especially someone who is NOW playing worse than Big Mike?

[jc707270]

Ahhhh thanks brandon! The list that I looked at had sullivan as a rt. Freeny wasn't considered a can't miss product and many people wonder about his size if i remember. But they should have picked him if they thought he would be as good as he is. This is the reason why I say also blame the scouts and or coaches. But of course it all comes back to TD, it's just easier that way I guess. But I think our scouts dropped the ball too.

[jc707270]

It's all hindsight.  Roy Williams would have been the next best player, but would you want to be paying a SS what Big Mike is making, especially someone who is NOW playing worse than Big Mike?

413216[/snapback]

 

Exactly, NO!

[San-O]

Hard to believe are you kidding? Why would another team want to have the #4 pick. You gotta have someone who wants someone to move up and pick higher. There was nobody worth doing it for in that draft. Also if it was a bad pick, then who could we have drafted?? freeny I believe plays the same position as schobel who we had just drafted the year before. Roy williams at saftey would have been good but a couple slots lower. Why would someone just say hey will help you guys out. If your gonna say it's a bad pick, ok then. But blame the scouts also and not just TD. Both are responsible! To pass on the pick would just be foolish and you know it. That just says you don't like TD which is fine cause I have problems with him to, but come on. You and every other bills fan would have ripped his head off at the neck if he would have just passed on the pick!

413215[/snapback]

 

 

LOL Ok, you're right!

 

No passing on a pick. Where is Mike Ditka when you need him!!!

 

 

Didn't Detroit do it two years on a row?

 

How long before you start to see these happen? Will we ever see this happen? What about a straight-up swap of draft spots, just to save money?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

There were no RT's taken in the top ten in the 2005 draft.

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/drafttracker/round/round1

 

Get your facts straight.

 

Oh yeah, Jordan started all 16 games last year, 2004 at LT.

413200[/snapback]

 

Hooked on phonics can work for you. I said 2 were taken in the 1st.

 

Jordan Gross "Im glad to be back on the right, its my natural position"

 

On another board, it was posted that right now, there are 7 1st round RT's compared to only 3, starting that were drafted in the 1st round since 2002.

[San-O]

Hooked on phonics can work for you.  I said 2 were taken in the 1st.

 

Jordan Gross  "Im glad to be back on the right, its my natural position"

 

On another board, it was posted that right now, there are 7 1st round RT's compared to only 3, starting that were drafted in the 1st round since 2002.

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How about hooked on numbers?

 

Top 10. Hmmm?

 

How about top 5?

 

Don't care about the entire first round, MW was taken # 4 overall.

 

 

PS. Gallery will probably be a Pro Bowl selection this year, so that's OK.

[34-78-83]

Back to the present... Mike Williams looked very impressive in the first half and has all camp long this season. Tonight he held his blocks for nice duration and even when exposed on an "island" held up extremely well in pass protection.

 

Since about half way through last season, MW has certainly earned his money.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

How about hooked on numbers?

 

Top 10.  Hmmm?

 

How about top 5? 

 

Don't care about the entire first round, MW was taken # 4 overall.

PS. Gallery will probably be a Pro Bowl selection this year, so that's OK.

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LoL. There have been more starting RT's drafted in the 1st round since Mike Williams draft than LT's.

 

There have been more starting RT's drafted in the top 10 than LT's since Mike Williams draft.

 

There have been more starting RT's drafted in the top 5 than LT's since Mike Williams draft.

 

 

That said, does Mike Williams have to play up to his selection? Yeah, but do most of the players taken after Williams. The facts are that the Bills werent in a good situation, they needed OL, and they took the best OL according to many people.

 

You draft on potential. He had potential and still does.

 

There werent a lot of options. SImple conclusion is, Top 5 picks suck, unless you get a chance at a Star. We lose that last game in 2001, and we have Julius Peppers.

[San-O]

LoL.  There have been more starting RT's drafted in the 1st round since Mike Williams draft than LT's.

 

There have been more starting RT's drafted in the top 10 than LT's since Mike Williams draft.

 

There have been more starting RT's drafted in the top 5 than LT's since Mike Williams draft.

That said, does Mike Williams have to play up to his selection? Yeah, but do most of the players taken after Williams.  The facts are that the Bills werent in a good situation, they needed OL, and they took the best OL according to many people.

 

You draft on potential.  He had potential and still does. 

 

There werent a lot of options.  SImple conclusion is, Top 5 picks suck, unless you get a chance at a Star.  We lose that last game in 2001, and we have Julius Peppers.

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There has been 1 Top Ten RT taken before MW, in last ten years.

 

There has been 1 Top Ten RT taken after MW in the last three years.

 

Three RTs taken in Top Ten last ten years. That should tell you something.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

There has been 1 Top Ten RT taken before MW in last ten years.

 

There has been 1 Top Ten RT taken after MW in the last ten years.

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Your wrong. Look at the rosters. Gallery is at RT. Gross is at RT. Williams is at RT.

 

You can guess all you want about what will happen in the future, this is Fact.

 

Why do you keep on saying otherwise?

 

These guys are at RT period and many other 1st rounders are at RT, more than LT since 2002.

 

Im done with this thread.

[Gene Frenkle]

How about hooked on numbers?

 

Top 10.  Hmmm?

 

How about top 5? 

 

Don't care about the entire first round, MW was taken # 4 overall.

PS. Gallery will probably be a Pro Bowl selection this year, so that's OK.

413254[/snapback]

Mike Williams has a better chance of going to the Pro Bowl this year than Gallery. Gallery barely saw the starting lineup last year.

 

It's easy to get ideas about a player stuck in your head and be stubborn about it when that player makes strides and improves, especially at a position like tackle that is hard for Joe Fan to evaluate. I guess you don't like Mike Williams or his salary and are still in love with last year's tackle poster boy Robert Gallery even though Big Mike is clearly better at this point in his career.

 

Try basing your opinions on something other than the crap that everyone's been spewing for the past few years. Try mixing in some game tape before busting on offensive linemen.

[San-O]

Mike Williams has a better chance of going to the Pro Bowl this year than Gallery.  Gallery barely saw the starting lineup last year.

 

It's easy to get ideas about a player stuck in your head and be stubborn about it when that player makes strides and improves, especially at a position like tackle that is hard for Joe Fan to evaluate.  I guess you don't like Mike Williams or his salary and are still in love with last year's tackle poster boy Robert Gallery even though Big Mike is clearly better at this point in his career.

 

Try basing your opinions on something other than the crap that everyone's been spewing for the past few years.  Try mixing in some game tape before busting on offensive linemen.

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You're high. Talk about spewing crap.

 

Gallery was a rookie last year. He started 15 games and appeared in all 16, and that O-line gave up only 30 sacks all year.

 

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/492940

[Bill from NYC]

Mike Williams has a better chance of going to the Pro Bowl this year than Gallery.  Gallery barely saw the starting lineup last year.

 

It's easy to get ideas about a player stuck in your head and be stubborn about it when that player makes strides and improves, especially at a position like tackle that is hard for Joe Fan to evaluate.  I guess you don't like Mike Williams or his salary and are still in love with last year's tackle poster boy Robert Gallery even though Big Mike is clearly better at this point in his career.

 

Try basing your opinions on something other than the crap that everyone's been spewing for the past few years.  Try mixing in some game tape before busting on offensive linemen.

413300[/snapback]

 

Mike Williams was average at best for 2 1/2 years. In the second half of last year, he graduated to good. His cap figure is 7 mil. The Bills have probably already paid him 20 million dollars.

 

No matter how you slice it, Bills fans have every right to be not so pleased by his performance, your indignance notwithstanding.

[The Jokeman]

It's all hindsight.  Roy Williams would have been the next best player, but would you want to be paying a SS what Big Mike is making, especially someone who is NOW playing worse than Big Mike?

413216[/snapback]

My hindsight pick is DT John Henderson and signing then free agent RT Victor Riley.

[Alaska Darin]

I guess the first five times you posted the exact same thread wasn't enough, huh?