Sean apologists... If McD gets fired without ever winning a Super Bowl, you will...

[DrDawkinstein]

I dont think he gets fired this year, so that isnt the question.

 

Terry and many folks here seem to be happy sitting on a nice Regular Season win/loss record, and some AFC East Championships (although those days seem to be over now that there's a better HC in the Division).

 

When we go another few years of this garbage, and Josh has officially entered the end of his career, how happy will you McD Apologists be with nothing to show for it all?

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

Flawed argument begins with "Terry and many folks here seem to be happy sitting on a nice Regular Season win/loss record, and some AFC East Championships"

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

Aaron Rodger’s, Favre, Russell Wilson, Steve Young, Drew Brees, Kurt Warner, Johnny U all only have 1. 
 

Marino, Kelly, Tarkenton, Fouts, Moon, Cunningham have zero.

 

People think Brady and Mahomes are the norm and they aren’t. 
 

It’s extremely tough to win a SB even when you have all the pieces in place, it still requires a lot of luck. I fault McDermott for 13 seconds, but it was not a given that they would’ve won it all.

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Aaron Rodger’s, Favre, Russell Wilson, Steve Young, Drew Brees, Kurt Warner, Johnny U all only have 1. 
 

Marino, Kelly, Tarkenton, Fouts, Moon, Cunningham have zero.

 

People think Brady and Mahomes are the norm and they aren’t. 
 

It’s extremely tough to win a SB even when you have all the pieces in place, it still requires a lot of luck. I fault McDermott for 13 seconds, but it was not a given that they would’ve won it all.

 

I'd be happy with just 1. That isnt the question.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Slippery Rubber Mats said:

Flawed argument begins with "Terry and many folks here seem to be happy sitting on a nice Regular Season win/loss record, and some AFC East Championships"

 

Yet, that's the response we get in many threads from Sean supporters. I agree their argument is flawed.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

9 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

I dont think he gets fired this year, so that isnt the question.

 

Terry and many folks here seem to be happy sitting on a nice Regular Season win/loss record, and some AFC East Championships (although those days seem to be over now that there's a better HC in the Division).

 

When we go another few years of this garbage, and Josh has officially entered the end of his career, how happy will you McD Apologists be with nothing to show for it all?

I am not sure anyone is a “McD Apologist” per se.
 

Those of us that support him are worried about blowing things up and making it worse by inevitably bringing in new systems and schemes and someone who is undoubtedly going to be way less experienced. It’s a lot of risk. Would be different if we weren’t so far into Allen’s career. 

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I am not sure anyone is a “McD Apologist” per se.
 

Those of us that support him are worried about blowing things up and making it worse by inevitably bringing in new systems and schemes and someone who is undoubtedly going to be way less experienced. It’s a lot of risk. Would be different if we weren’t so far into Allen’s career. 

 

And there you go. You make the best argument against yourself.

 

We're so far into Allen's career and have nothing to show for it, except now a possibly declining Allen.

 

What do you have to lose? NOT making the SB again?

 

Fear isnt a good reason to not try to improve.

 

And I believe the "its a big risk, it could be worse" argument has been thoroughly refuted. Most recently in the "Ben Johnson?!?" thread.

 

@NoSaint did a good job on it around pages 15-16...

 

 

Edited 56 minutes ago by DrDawkinstein

[Donuts and Doritos]

If we aren't an apologist can we still vote? Also, is Brandon Beane still picking the players throughout all of McD's time in this hypothetical or is he replaced by someone better? Is McD fired while Josh is still playing? & Does Josh go on and win a SB w/o him? Just want to flesh this scenario out. 

[RyanC883]

6 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Aaron Rodger’s, Favre, Russell Wilson, Steve Young, Drew Brees, Kurt Warner, Johnny U all only have 1. 
 

Marino, Kelly, Tarkenton, Fouts, Moon, Cunningham have zero.

 

People think Brady and Mahomes are the norm and they aren’t. 
 

It’s extremely tough to win a SB even when you have all the pieces in place, it still requires a lot of luck. I fault McDermott for 13 seconds, but it was not a given that they would’ve won it all.

 

With the exception of Marino, none of those QBs are as good as Allen.  They also played in a different era without the benefit of FA.  Marino also reached a SB (not much of a consolidation prize).  

 

The roster construction around Allen has been horrendous, as has McDs desire for HS level "complementary" football.  

 

People aren't out here wanting multiple Championships (although with a guy like Allen who is arguably the best QB of all time given his passing and running).  

[SoonerBillsFan]

12 minutes ago, Slippery Rubber Mats said:

Flawed argument begins with "Terry and many folks here seem to be happy sitting on a nice Regular Season win/loss record, and some AFC East Championships"

Actually many seem to be happy with that,and if Terry keeps the status quo then it seems he is happy with just doing that as well

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, Donuts and Doritos said:

If we aren't an apologist can we still vote? Also, is Brandon Beane still picking the players throughout all of McD's time in this hypothetical or is he replaced by someone better? Is McD fired while Josh is still playing? & Does Josh go on and win a SB w/o him? Just want to flesh this scenario out. 

 

No Voter ID required.

 

Assume Beane is tied to McD.

 

You can assume either on whether Josh is still playing or not. No answer on whether he goes on to win one, or even with the Bills. All we know for this poll is McD is fired at least a decade into Josh's career with nothing to show for it. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

13 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I'd be happy with just 1. That isnt the question.

 

 

 

Yet, that's the response we get in many threads from Sean supporters. I agree their argument is flawed.

Then what’s the question ? What will I do if McD gets fired? Probably take a long nap. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

5 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

And there you go. You make the best argument against yourself.

 

We're so far into Allen's career and have nothing to show for it, except now a possibly declining Allen.

 

What do you have to lose? NOT making the SB again?

 

Fear isnt a good reason to not try to improve.

 

And I believe the "its a big risk, it could be worse" argument has been thoroughly refuted. Most recently in the "Ben Johnson?!?" thread.

 

@NoSaint did a good job on it around pages 15-16...

 

 

For every Ben Johnson, you have:

 

1) Brian Dabol

2) Mike McDaniel

3) Robert Selah

4) Matt Eberflus

5) Brian Callahan

6) Doug Pederson

7) Mike McDaniel

 

Those are the ones for the top of my head. 

The risk is high. It may be worth it, but it is high. 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

Then what’s the question ? What will I do if McD gets fired? Probably take a long nap. 

 

The question is, are you happy withMcD riding off into the sunset with ZERO?

[Gunsgoodtime]

1 minute ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

For every Ben Johnson, you have:

 

1) Brian Dabol

2) Mike McDaniel

3) Robert Selah

4) Matt Eberflus

5) Brian Callahan

6) Doug Pederson

7) Mike McDaniel

 

Those are the ones for the top of my head. 

The risk is high. It may be worth it, but it is high. 

 

What are we at risk of losing?  SB trophies?  We have the greatest QB to ever play that has never made it to a SB currently.  Why?  The coaches and GM

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

For every Ben Johnson, you have:

 

1) Brian Dabol

2) Mike McDaniel

3) Robert Selah

4) Matt Eberflus

5) Brian Callahan

6) Doug Pederson

7) Mike McDaniel

 

Those are the ones for the top of my head. 

The risk is high. It may be worth it, but it is high. 

 

 

You have McDaniel on there twice.

 

Pederson won a SB with a lesser QB. Jacksonville just sucks as an org.

 

No one wants a Saleh or Eberflus. This isnt a bottom-tier job. This is the best opportunity candidates have ever seen.

[SoonerBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

What are we at risk of losing?  SB trophies?  We have the greatest QB to ever play that has never made it to a SB currently.  Why?  The coaches and GM

I agree. He is on the path of Dan Marino,but Marino actually payed in 1 superbowl.

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

You have McDaniel on there twice.

 

Pederson won a SB with a lesser QB. Jacksonville just sucks as an org.

 

No one wants a Saleh or Eberflus. This isnt a bottom-tier job. This is the best opportunity candidates have ever seen.

We need an offensive minded head coach.

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

The question is, are you happy withMcD riding off into the sunset with ZERO?

No, but if he starts clapping into the sunset then I’ll be furious. 

[DrDawkinstein]

3 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said:

No, but if he starts clapping into the sunset then I’ll be furious. 

 

Well played, sir. Cant argue with that.  Go Bills!

[T.E.]

33 minutes ago, Slippery Rubber Mats said:

Flawed argument begins with "Terry and many folks here seem to be happy sitting on a nice Regular Season win/loss record, and some AFC East Championships"

The Pegula stuff is speculation, obviously, but I have seen several Bills fans here and elsewhere say that they are happy with just making the playoffs and having a shot each year. No real desire to try to win the Super Bowl because they are "enjoying the ride" of having a good team.

[Cray51]

Ben Johnson is the only Head Coach Hire in the past 5 years I'd take over Sean.  Maybe Sean Payton, however I'm not sure Allen and his scheme would mesh incredibly well.

 

Allen winning his MVP saved McD's seat last year, and frankly cost them a shot at Johnson.  It's the name of the game.

 

I dont see any great candidates out there right now, so I dont think I'd be thrilled to move on from Sean.