Let’s talk D

[Avisan]

2 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Yeah we got it. You’re the only guy left. Our defense is probably good we’re all just missing it. Or no, they were good. 13 seconds, the other playoff losses they were really good the whole time. I feel ya. Don’t trust what we are seeing somehow they are good still 

They're average, not good.

 

But average =/= terrible.

[CEN-CAL17]

On 11/16/2025 at 7:37 PM, RyanC883 said:

I mean this is a great question.  Not really sure how the D improves.  Really poor personnel acquisition on the DL/LBs by Bean.   Perhaps some disguised/delayed blitzes with different guys coming from different spots.  Bishop has been in great position this season, so that frees up the ability to blitz more.  

The defense is what it is…

 

Only thing to do is disguise the looks, move people around, bring 5 up to the line, shifts etc… but we can only hope this defense gels a little more and execute on a higher level as we go

 

I brought up LB prior to the trade deadline and got bashed. 
 

 

 

Edited 7 hours ago by CEN-CAL17

[Nihilarian]

 Shaq Thompson should be back to help! I don't get how this crew can be so bad against the run?

[GunnerBill]

24 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Yeah we got it. You’re the only guy left. Our defense is probably good we’re all just missing it. Or no, they were good. 13 seconds, the other playoff losses they were really good the whole time. I feel ya. Don’t trust what we are seeing somehow they are good still 

 

No. Trust what you were seeing. They were good. That is what you saw. They are bad now. That is also what you are seeing.

[kkim0904]

2 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

 Shaq Thompson should be back to help! I don't get how this crew can be so bad against the run?

Bernard and Milano will get most of snaps.  Last week Bernard played 100%of snaps.  I don't think McD will share Bernard's snaps with Shaq 

[Shaw66]

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Tackling has definitely been a huge issue. That's no secret.

 

Which is CRAZY to me since it is the basic foundation these guys would have learned since they were 10 years old. And I refuse to believe all these players made it from highly rated High School recruits through D1 College Programs and drafted to the NFL without knowing how to tackle previously.

 

Something in the coaching or scheme has these guys twisted up. Whether they are being coached to be too aggressive and not break down, or the scheme is confusing and they are just out of place and therefore taking bad angles, or what...

 

When an entire defense of players who made it to the pro ranks cant seem to tackle, I look up the ladder.

 

But it's all of them. And we know that McD runs some of the lightest contact practices/camps. So I can't absolve the coaching of anything.

 

If it was 1 or even 2 guys blowing all the tackles then maybe. But when it's seemingly everyone, everywhere...

But the stats are that the Bills are 23rd (10th best) in missed tackles.  https://sports.betmgm.com/en/blog/nfl/nfl-teams-with-most-missed-tackles-this-season-bm10/#:~:text=One of the biggest keys to having,the most missed tackles during the 2025

 

The Bills tackle well.

 

Yards after contact is a different stat.  Not every contact is a missed tackle.

[colin]

philosophically mcd lives in fear of the deep pass, will allow teams to run, and wants to generate run stuffs, tfl, sacks, and most of all turnovers.  if we were to make an infinite game out of all of his seasons where, where opponents gain points and yards over time and we gain points and yards over time, the D has been actually quite good.  if we look at average game performance, it has also been quite good.  where it has failed is that it simply does not provide a high degree of difficulty vs specific teams in high leverage games (every kc playoff game, this year i'll say miami only, new england was lost by turning the ball over this season, atlanta was one of the worst d performances ever for a half, then mcd took the family business back from his wretched fail son babybabich).

 

i think the d roster is a mess with the injuries, but there is an element of mcd being stubborn and sticking to hard to his guns wrt his philosophical goals (putting in less mental mistakes but crippled AJ klien over mistake prone but athletic phenom rookie dorian williams vs kc in 2023, only punt forced in the game came from williams just being a baller and making plays).  he will keep an obvious bad athlete like damar on the roster because he likes the steadiness rather than shake it up and put in someone with higher variance guy who can actually make plays.

 

while i respect his bent towards conservatism when it comes to deep passes, we get trucked so hard with explosive runs, and in selling out to just not allow teams to attempt the at best hard passes down the field, sort of make it easy mode for them to just line up and run to move the chains and get explosive scores.  it puts us in a bind sometimes where missing one LB or one pass rusher creates too obvious of a hole that the opponents can exploit over and over again.

 

my fear is that he will play a hobbled 7 and 8 (i will admit, bernard did look a lot better vs tampa) and the injuries up front will be too much for our second line to overcome, but if we can get ed back and be healthier upfront, and have more burn for williams and thompson, and have a back 4 of poy/hancock, bishop, max, and christian we might be able to make 4 stops/turnovers in each of our playoff games which is enough to win convincingly based on how allen and cook and co perform in the bright lights. 

[nosejob]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

I think they have hope on 3rd and longs because Benford is starting to look like himself again, Hairston clearly looks like he belongs out there and Cole Bishop is turning into a stud Safety. 
 

If all 3 of those guys continue to gel and we get anything out of Poyer/Hancock and Johnson/Lewis, this secondary can cover. 
 

The DL needs Sanders to become what they drafted him for desperately.   To be that passing down pass rusher from the interior.   They also need Bosa to get healthy and Rousseau to take a jump that maybe is never coming. 
 

Dorian Williams in the Hoecht role has some promise, but we need Sanders to come on so Solomon can go back to DE4.  He just gets stonewalled too often in that interior pass rush role. 

I think TJ is gonna be Ed 2.0  Probably gonna be year 3 before any impact. Agree on Solomon. Slide Joey inside since he favors that move anyway and let 56 round the outside. I'm praying we go/stay ahead of the curve big an extra lineman.  5-2-4    Hopefully FOX is the same as Hoecht.

[OldNMBillsFan]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No. Trust what you were seeing. They were good. That is what you saw. They are bad now. That is also what you are seeing.

You get what you pay for. The Bills are 20th in spending on Defense. They are better than most teams defensively in many statistics, except the run, and excel in some import areas as well. When JA was still on his rookie contract, they had the money and spent for a top 5 defense, and it showed on the field. It's when they had to pay for JA and a good offensive line to protect him is when the defensive side suffered because of resource allocation. 

Edited 4 hours ago by OldNMBillsFan

[colin]

14 minutes ago, OldNMBillsFan said:

You get what you pay for. The Bills are 20th in spending on Defense. They are better than most teams defensively in many statistics, except the run, and excel in some import areas as well. When JA was still on his rookie contract, they had the money and spent for a top 5 defense, and it showed on the field. It's when they had to pay for JA and a good offensive line to protect him is when the defensive side suffered because of resource allocation. 

 

that's very interesting -- is that in like total contract value, or just salary or cap this year?

 

there are obviously ways to massage the numbers one way or another.

 

i think bosa, hoyt (if he weren't hurt, so sad) obiwan and shaq were all good signings this offseason, and groot and benford were ok to good resignings.  the real crap of our roster is not the draft picks, or the FA moves we made IMO, but the guys we over paid for second contracts (knox, milano, von, diggs, taron, both safeties poy and hyde as they got older, bass, maybe ed given injuries, and possibly bernard and shakir sadly).

 

the second tier of errors is like samuel, maybe palmer given injuries, and all those d linemen who were jags who we paid up to sign in the past.

[OldNMBillsFan]

4 minutes ago, colin said:

 

that's very interesting -- is that in like total contract value, or just salary or cap this year?

 

there are obviously ways to massage the numbers one way or another.

 

i think bosa, hoyt (if he weren't hurt, so sad) obiwan and shaq were all good signings this offseason, and groot and benford were ok to good resignings.  the real crap of our roster is not the draft picks, or the FA moves we made IMO, but the guys we over paid for second contracts (knox, milano, von, diggs, taron, both safeties poy and hyde as they got older, bass, maybe ed given injuries, and possibly bernard and shakir sadly).

 

the second tier of errors is like samuel, maybe palmer given injuries, and all those d linemen who were jags who we paid up to sign in the past.

Using this.

https://overthecap.com/positional-spending

 

[billsfan89]

49 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I think they have hope on 3rd and longs because Benford is starting to look like himself again, Hairston clearly looks like he belongs out there and Cole Bishop is turning into a stud Safety. 
 

If all 3 of those guys continue to gel and we get anything out of Poyer/Hancock and Johnson/Lewis, this secondary can cover. 
 

The DL needs Sanders to become what they drafted him for desperately.   To be that passing down pass rusher from the interior.   They also need Bosa to get healthy and Rousseau to take a jump that maybe is never coming. 
 

Dorian Williams in the Hoecht role has some promise, but we need Sanders to come on so Solomon can go back to DE4.  He just gets stonewalled too often in that interior pass rush role. 

 

The secondary hinges largely on Benford. Cole is coming around, Po's not what he once was but he's decent and a stabilizing force (and Handcock taking some snaps is keeping him fresh), Tre as the pure dimeback is proving to be serviceable now that Mad Max is anchoring most of the snaps on the boundary and looking solid. Even Cam Lewis splitting with Taron is getting decent production out of the nickel. If Benford can be the anchor there that he has been at the outside the secondary should be a very good unit.

 

The D-line I think really need another DE at the trade deadline. I thought at DT with Sanders coming back and Ed at hopefully some point later in December or early January possibly coming back they could get by. Wallker has been a stud, Larry O's getting better the more he plays, Daquon is obviously not what he once was but I think he can turn it on later in the season and right now he's serviceable, and Sanders I think he can be a back end rotation guy to eat snaps until Ed comes back. 

 

But at DE with Hoecht and Jackson down for the year the Bills really could have used a competent versatile body at DE. I think it is just insanely unfortunate that Jackson was hurt the game after the trade deadline. I think they are blending Dorian Williams and Solomon into that versatility role and we will see how well they can do.

 

I think LB hinges on can they get Shaq and Benford healthy for the playoffs while also getting Dorian Williams comfortable in his role. Milano I would like to see absorb some snaps to try to keep the guys healthy and while he's clearly physically lost a step or so I think in a more limited role he can make a play or two. 

 

Overall there's a lot that's going to need to break right for the unit to turn into a better than average defense. 

[GunnerBill]

4 hours ago, OldNMBillsFan said:

You get what you pay for. The Bills are 20th in spending on Defense. They are better than most teams defensively in many statistics, except the run, and excel in some import areas as well. When JA was still on his rookie contract, they had the money and spent for a top 5 defense, and it showed on the field. It's when they had to pay for JA and a good offensive line to protect him is when the defensive side suffered because of resource allocation. 

 

This is a fair point. And speaks to they have some older vets at the end and a lot of rookie deal guys and only the 3 guys they paid last spring (where the big dollars haven't kicked in yet) and Oliver (done for the year) as prime age guys they are paying market rate for.

 

On the flipside they have thrown some draft capital at it the past couple of years.