This is how you build from within..

[Yobogoya!]

1 hour ago, Johnnycage46 said:

 

Well said. The whole draft, develop and resign thing is only a good idea if you resign guys that actually deserve the contract. Beane seems to have resigned all of these drafted players as a way to validate his draft picks (see, they were good draft picks, because they earned a new contract). Beane has completely destroyed this roster.

 

Spot on. There's a certain extra irony in that Beane spent his first summer here launching former Whaley draft picks and complaining about the cap situation he inherited. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

And it will likely continue. 

 

If for any reason Joe Brady is out as OC after this year, the Bills will conduct a farce interview process to comply with Rooney Rules and hire from within. My guess is it would be Ronald Curry. But that's just a guess on my part. 

 

If they move on from Babich, I see McDermott taking over permanently again. I don't think there's a guy on staff that would be seriously considered. 

 

How would you find a good outside OC?   You have the choice between hiring a QB coach or something equivalent from the outside who may never have called plays, maybe you can find someone available in a similar situation as Brady who was an OC, but got fired a year or two ago and is now a QB coach someplace.  Dorsey would also fit that profile exactly actually.   Or hire an OC from some team that just fired their entire coaching staff.  Maybe some OC from the college ranks, but these days, that may mean taking a big pay cut.  Not likely some team with an existing OC would give permission to hire theirs.

 

As for Babich, not likely you're going to get the hot DC coordinator to come here as they know they will be working under McD.  Look at how it went for Bieniemy in KC.   He finally left to go to Washington as knew he wasn't getting a HC job while under Reids shadow.   That's really not a knock of fault if McD, that's just the reality of the league.  Whatever side of the ball the HC is from, makes it tough to get a good coordinator on that same side.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

How would you find a good outside OC?   You have the choice between hiring a QB coach or something equivalent from the outside who may never have called plays, maybe you can find someone available in a similar situation as Brady who was an OC, but got fired a year or two ago and is now a QB coach someplace.  Dorsey would also fit that profile exactly actually.   Or hire an OC from some team that just fired their entire coaching staff.  Maybe some OC from the college ranks, but these days, that may mean taking a big pay cut.  Not likely some team with an existing OC would give permission to hire theirs.

 

As for Babich, not likely you're going to get the hot DC coordinator to come here as they know they will be working under McD.  Look at how it went for Bieniemy in KC.   He finally left to go to Washington as knew he wasn't getting a HC job while under Reids shadow.   That's really not a knock of fault if McD, that's just the reality of the league.  Whatever side of the ball the HC is from, makes it tough to get a good coordinator on that same side.

 

For OC, if we stuck with McD as HC, our best bet is to hire an offensive HC who just got fired. Like if Cleveland cleans house and Stefanski is available. Of course, that is just a 1-2 year rental since if they have any success with Josh, they'll be hired back out into another HC spot soon enough.

 

As for DC... as long as McD is here, we're stuck. It isnt even that folks dont want to be in his "shadow". It's that McD insists they run his scheme. So our options are extremely limited.

 

We couldve brought in Flores. We should have brought in Ulbrich. Wont happen because they wont kowtow to McD.

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

3 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

How would you find a good outside OC?   You have the choice between hiring a QB coach or something equivalent from the outside who may never have called plays, maybe you can find someone available in a similar situation as Brady who was an OC, but got fired a year or two ago and is now a QB coach someplace.  Dorsey would also fit that profile exactly actually.   Or hire an OC from some team that just fired their entire coaching staff.  Maybe some OC from the college ranks, but these days, that may mean taking a big pay cut.  Not likely some team with an existing OC would give permission to hire theirs.

 

As for Babich, not likely you're going to get the hot DC coordinator to come here as they know they will be working under McD.  Look at how it went for Bieniemy in KC.   He finally left to go to Washington as knew he wasn't getting a HC job while under Reids shadow.   That's really not a knock of fault if McD, that's just the reality of the league.  Whatever side of the ball the HC is from, makes it tough to get a good coordinator on that same side.

Well here's an idea. Start by doing an actual legitimate search. Go back and look at the people interviewed for the OC position for both the Dorsey and the Brady hires. Do the same for the Babich hire. The common theme? They interviewed a couple of minority candidates, then hired from within. 

 

These aren't honest searches with the idea of finding the best suited guy to take over the position. These are egotistical hires that basically says "we hire the best people so the obvious answer is already on our staff". These are hires meant to keep the status quo, which is one thing if you're winning championships year after year. Quite another when you constantly come up short. 

[Yobogoya!]

36 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

For OC, if we stuck with McD as HC, our best bet is to hire an offensive HC who just got fired. Like if Cleveland cleans house and Stefanski is available. Of course, that is just a 1-2 year rental since if they have any success with Josh, they'll be hired back out into another HC spot soon enough.

 

As for DC... as long as McD is here, we're stuck. It isnt even that folks dont want to be in his "shadow". It's that McD insists they run his scheme. So our options are extremely limited.

 

We couldve brought in Flores. We should have brought in Ulbrich. Wont happen because they wont kowtow to McD.

 

 

If Brady gets canned this year, McDermott HAS to go outside the organization for OC. And there should be some decent options- Stefanski would be a coup if we could land him, if even for a year. 

 

If he's going to refuse to let someone come in and show up his defense, then he damn sure better be play caller and own that thing for the rest of his tenure here. Say what you want about Babich- it's not like he picks the players or can change the scheme, so honestly it's not even fair to judge him for his performance here other than to say he's not adept at maximizing our already milquetoast play sheet. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

3 hours ago, Yobogoya! said:

 

Thanks for the insight! 

 

I'll now retreat to my bedroom under the stairs to reevaluate not only my outlook on football, but life itself. 

Harry Potter!? 

[HamptonBillsfan]

4 hours ago, Yobogoya! said:

Instead of bringing in proven coordinators who might have their own concepts they want to run, you promote:

 - Ken Dorsey (fired after 1.5 seasons, fired against the next year by his next team)

 - Joe Brady (biggest thing going for him is he wasn't Ken Dorsey. 2nd biggest thing is he'll build the offense McD wants)

 - Bobby Babich (another puppet hire- who may or may not even perform his own duties right now)

 

Then you big contracts to:

 - T. Bernard (who alternates between injured and a liability)

 - M. Milano (same as Bernard, only he'll count 12mil dead cap next year to not play for us)

 - D. Knox (who you replaced on the depth chart right after signing, and is now a 8 digit/yr blocker TE)

 - G. Rousseau (who is earning a top-10 edge def contract but has never been mistaken for a top-10 player)

 - T. Johnson (was great during his first extension- now is mercifully out of the lineup, being outplayed by his backup)

 - C. Benford (deserved a raise as CB1, but extended after several injuries and is now a major question mark less than 1 season after signing for top-15 $)

 - K. Shakir (solid player, earned a contract but is making 13mil aav to be a role player and can't be the focal point of our passing attack)

 - E. Oliver (who might be a force if he could stay on the field and find some semblance of consistency)

 

And most of these guys have been good players, some have flashed to greatness- but there's an awful lot of money tied up in those names that you'd have to feel better about if it was going to a proven, ELITE difference maker (of which we have only Josh Allen and James Cook...)

 

I remember after the 2023 season it seemed like we were poised for a rebuild year- we were OVER the cap heading into the off-season, injuries had piled up, we had fired our OC mid-season and McDermott hadn't chosen a DC yet. Diggs was erratic and eventually bullied our front office into moving on from him, requiring us to absorb a MASSIVE $30mil cap hit for the year. Had no choice but to roster a (seemingly) washed Von Miller for the year due to the big cap hit. 

 

We ended up over-achieving last year, and made the AFCC game despite injuries and lack of top shelf talent and I think that's caused us to double and even triple down on the "process" instead of going full reset, dumping bad contracts, finding proven coordinators and trying to poise ourselves to better compete before Josh Allen turns 30 (not gonna happen now).

 

People were looking for a big move at the deadline this year, but the fact is we've spent too much money right up tot he cap AGAIN this year and the majority of our home-grown contracts aren't paying the dividends we need.

Simple answer is that Beane takes the easiest route to put a reasonably priced product on the field that will destroy the cap but not force bidding against other teams, or using draft capital.His extensions, made possible by restructuring other contracts and kicking cap hell down the road, were  made without ever factoring injury history and inconsistency into the decision. Now, we have our pedestrian coordinators trying to game plan and call plays with depth players and less talented veterans(White,Poyer, Milano. AJ, Knox, Moore, Jones ,Phillips, Samuel etc) that we are stuck with. We should expect more of the same next season because Beane doesn’t draft well and the cap restrictions continue. Ask yourself why are so many of our highest paid stars injured so often?

[TheyCallMeAndy]

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Dorsey was NOT a proven anything. He was FIRED from QB coach in Carolina and sat home without a job for 2 years before McD brought him into Buffalo. He was a huge question mark and had a short leash when he managed to land the OC job.

He was the QB coach to the league MVP, Newton's best years came with Dorsey. As a QB coach, Allen also had his best seasons production wise. He failed, but again he was a legit candidate. 

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Any positive stuff on Babich was just team PR on hyping up McD's protege.

Nope, we as fans said that. Whatever positional group he oversaw, had stellar seasons. 

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

They were both "first timers" in their jobs while proven and known quantities were available. But McD cant handle strong, proven coordinators (as proven by how both Dabol and Frazier ended up).

Dabs was NOT a proven OC, fans here hated Frazier. HATED. Time makes us forget, I see. 

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

As for the McD quote, it doesnt take much to dig up plenty of interviews where he talks about it. He doesnt exactly quote "run first, conservative passing game", but he absolutely alludes to it by talking about the run game, being balanced, etc, etc.

Right, so it doesn't exist.

 

I'm not, by any means, saying we don't have major issues with the coaching staff, roster construction, and cap management. I'm not opposing changes now or in the future. 
 

The "hot takes from the hip" captain hindsight where lots, I mean lots, of context is ignored or dismissed is just plain inaccurate though. 

[Buffalo Boy]

4 hours ago, dorquemada said:

 

Is there an NFL rule that Shakir isn't allowed to run a slant route?  The focal point of our passing attack would ideally be downfield from the line of scrimmage

It’s in his contract. He has to be targeted 75% of the time within two yards of the line of scrimmage 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

For OC, if we stuck with McD as HC, our best bet is to hire an offensive HC who just got fired. Like if Cleveland cleans house and Stefanski is available. Of course, that is just a 1-2 year rental since if they have any success with Josh, they'll be hired back out into another HC spot soon enough.

 

As for DC... as long as McD is here, we're stuck. It isnt even that folks dont want to be in his "shadow". It's that McD insists they run his scheme. So our options are extremely limited.

 

We couldve brought in Flores. We should have brought in Ulbrich. Wont happen because they wont kowtow to McD.

 

 

Agree on the OC part.  Often need to go back two years as a lot of times a coach who just gets fired decides to take a year off first and get a better feel for hist options first.  Would other teams consider him for HC position, etc.

 

DC, think Kowtow is too strong of a word.  The situation in Buffalo is the same as found in most teams.  Andy Reid wasn't going to get Ben Johnson to be his next OC either if he were available.  Is it really uncommon in the league for the HC to have his coordinators run a scheme he likes in particular from whichever side of the ball he comes from.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Well here's an idea. Start by doing an actual legitimate search. Go back and look at the people interviewed for the OC position for both the Dorsey and the Brady hires. Do the same for the Babich hire. The common theme? They interviewed a couple of minority candidates, then hired from within. 

 

These aren't honest searches with the idea of finding the best suited guy to take over the position. These are egotistical hires that basically says "we hire the best people so the obvious answer is already on our staff". These are hires meant to keep the status quo, which is one thing if you're winning championships year after year. Quite another when you constantly come up short. 

 

It's not that simple.  First off you don't want to be labeled as a team that doesn't promote from within as then will become tougher to get coaches to come here. 

 

Are you planning to bring in a coach that runs the same scheme or something different.  Likely it will be something different and when that happens particularly on the defensive side of the ball that also means overhaling the roster which usually takes a couple of years to do.

 

If you do interview legit outside people as you call them, it becomes hard to differentiate between an coach who you know very well both his good and bad points vrs someone coming in from the outside and you speak with for a few hours in an interview.  Unless it's someone you already worked with, but then is that much better than hiring from within?  It's much safer and smarter to always pick the devil you know and that doesn't mean its an egotistical choice either.

[DrDawkinstein]

8 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Agree on the OC part.  Often need to go back two years as a lot of times a coach who just gets fired decides to take a year off first and get a better feel for hist options first.  Would other teams consider him for HC position, etc.

 

DC, think Kowtow is too strong of a word.  The situation in Buffalo is the same as found in most teams.  Andy Reid wasn't going to get Ben Johnson to be his next OC either if he were available.  Is it really uncommon in the league for the HC to have his coordinators run a scheme he likes in particular from whichever side of the ball he comes from.

 

Not uncommon, but far more common on the offensive side. From what I can remember, most defensive HCs transition into a true HC role and give the DCs way more flexibility than what we've seen out of McD.

 

Edited 29 minutes ago by DrDawkinstein

[BuffaloBillyG]

4 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

It's not that simple.  First off you don't want to be labeled as a team that doesn't promote from within as then will become tougher to get coaches to come here. 

 

Are you planning to bring in a coach that runs the same scheme or something different.  Likely it will be something different and when that happens particularly on the defensive side of the ball that also means overhaling the roster which usually takes a couple of years to do.

 

If you do interview legit outside people as you call them, it becomes hard to differentiate between an coach who you know very well both his good and bad points vrs someone coming in from the outside and you speak with for a few hours in an interview.  Unless it's someone you already worked with, but then is that much better than hiring from within?  It's much safer and smarter to always pick the devil you know and that doesn't mean its an egotistical choice either.

Safer? How has the "safe" path worked out? Would you say our offense is better then it was under Dorsey? How about Daboll? Would you say our defe is better with the safe pick of Babich?

 

Yes, new schemes result in new players. But let's not act like it's unheard of to teams to find success when transitioning. It happens literally every year around the NFL. 

[boater]

I remember just a mere two months ago when Brady was discussed to be a Head Coach next season. (discussed by posters here)

 

My, how things turn on a dime around here.

[Yobogoya!]

20 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

DC, think Kowtow is too strong of a word.  The situation in Buffalo is the same as found in most teams.  Andy Reid wasn't going to get Ben Johnson to be his next OC either if he were available.  Is it really uncommon in the league for the HC to have his coordinators run a scheme he likes in particular from whichever side of the ball he comes from.

 

Thing is that Andy Reid is and has always been his own play caller for the offensive side of the ball. All of his OC's have a lot of responsibility but he's always had the call sheet. 

 

So I think if you want to be firm about your own scheme being run, then you should probably take full responsibility for it. Frazier and Babich probably should have never had a call sheet if that's what McD wants is his scheme and his scheme only.

 

And if it's a matter of finding a guy who runs the same base defense- there's plenty of guys who can run a 4-3 or "big nickel" base that we can pull from. But if McDermott is going to hand someone else play calling duties, he should allow them to run their own concepts and packages. If he can't do that then again, what's the point in handing someone else the call sheet? If you're going to micro manage that side of the ball, then own it.

 

No point in being half-assed about it, cuz that's not fair to Babich or anyone else if they can't put their own stamp on the product on the field which is a reflection of their abilities. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

16 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Safer? How has the "safe" path worked out? Would you say our offense is better then it was under Dorsey? How about Daboll? Would you say our defe is better with the safe pick of Babich?

 

Yes, new schemes result in new players. But let's not act like it's unheard of to teams to find success when transitioning. It happens literally every year around the NFL. 

 

I'm not saying it's better, I'm stating the simple fact that that's how the world works, in sports, industry, wherever.  People hire people they know and are familiar with for the most part.

 

Yes it happens every year in the NFL, but more with teams that are bad, not teams that are winning, they will just make smaller tweaks.  Right or wrong, that's reality.