Challenge Spot, Spot Gets Moved, But LOSE Challenge ! ??

[ChasBB]

2 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

Let’s put this topic to bed with the only authoritative source on the matter. Here it is straight from the NFL rulebook

 

Article 7. Plays Governed By The Line To Gain

 

The dead-ball spot is reviewable to determine whether it was short of, at, or beyond the line to gain.

 

Notes:

1) For purposes of a replay review, forward progress is determined when a player with control of the ball is controlled by an opponent and driven backwards.

 

2) A challenge is successful only if the ruling of whether a new series was awarded is changed, regardless of whether the ball was moved closer to the line to gain.

 

3) Following review, the ball will be placed at the correct dead-ball spot, but the challenge will be successful only if the line to gain ruling is changed.

Thank you for that.  Clearly, I didn't do homework first on this.  I think I'm actually more surprised the situation is covered so well in the rule book than anything else.

[Low Positive]

Just now, ChasBB said:

Thank you for that.  Clearly, I didn't do homework first on this.  I think I'm actually more surprised the situation is covered so well in the rule book than anything else.

There is a lot in there, but it’s a dense read so nobody except psychopaths like Bill Belichick and Andy Reid have actually read it. It would be like reading the OED or Encyclopaedia Brittanica cover to cover. 

[billsfan89]

This is another dumb rule, like if the ball was spotted wrong but it still doesn't get you a first down you had the wrong call and it was overturned why do you still lose a challenge? 

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

There's probably also a proviso re: whether a guy stepped OB that changes the spot, but I don't know how that works in relation to the line to gain, if at all.

 

I'm thinking the challenge would be that the player stepped out of bounds which would change the spot as a result of that but you wouldn't directly be challenging the spot.

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I didn’t see that last night (fell asleep at 1/2) but think I’ve seen it before. I’m with you that it is 100% crazy. If the officials were wrong, and you were right, regardless of if it resulted in a 1st down or TD or whatever, you shouldn’t relinquish a TO. Frustrating 

 

Yep, has happened to the Bills before. McDermott's first year or second year I think. It was McDermott but it was Shady carrying the ball so 2017 or 2018.... he was stopped right at the line, it was moved forward an inch but still short of the line. 

[Simon]

25 minutes ago, Low Positive said:

There is a lot in there, but it’s a dense read so nobody except psychopaths like Bill Belichick and Andy Reid (and librarians) have actually read it.

 

Fixed that for you. 

[Low Positive]

10 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Fixed that for you. 

Librarians read nothing cover to cover. We just know where to look stuff up. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 hour ago, billsfan89 said:

This is another dumb rule, like if the ball was spotted wrong but it still doesn't get you a first down you had the wrong call and it was overturned why do you still lose a challenge? 

Because you challenged that it was a first down, which it wasn't - so you lost the challenge.

[JP51]

4 hours ago, Low Positive said:

I would agree with you. But when a bad thing happens to the Bengals and especially if it makes Zac Taylor look inept, I am in full support it. I love all stupid rules if they make Joe Burrow sad. 

I aint gonna disagree with that.... just sayin... 

2 hours ago, Low Positive said:

Let’s put this topic to bed with the only authoritative source on the matter. Here it is straight from the NFL rulebook

 

Article 7. Plays Governed By The Line To Gain

 

The dead-ball spot is reviewable to determine whether it was short of, at, or beyond the line to gain.

 

Notes:

1) For purposes of a replay review, forward progress is determined when a player with control of the ball is controlled by an opponent and driven backwards.

 

2) A challenge is successful only if the ruling of whether a new series was awarded is changed, regardless of whether the ball was moved closer to the line to gain.

 

3) Following review, the ball will be placed at the correct dead-ball spot, but the challenge will be successful only if the line to gain ruling is changed.

 

https://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/nfl-rulebook/#article-7-plays-governed-by-the-line-to-gain

Ok so I am not disputing, but am wondering because I cant find it...  

 

QB throws pass, 15 yards... receiver catches it... for a first down... and lands on the 35 the official places it at the 37 ... coach challenges this because of the missed spot (like hey we want it closer in case we need to kick a FG) the coach challenges and they move the ball to the 35 because it was mis spotted... is this something that cannot be challenged because it didnt involve a new set of downs... or can the coach challenge the spot specifically without needing the line to gain because that wasnt in dispute... 

[shrader]

2 hours ago, ChasBB said:

Thank you for that.  Clearly, I didn't do homework first on this.  I think I'm actually more surprised the situation is covered so well in the rule book than anything else.

And it is written this way so that teams don’t challenge every single spot. 

[billsfan89]

2 hours ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

Because you challenged that it was a first down, which it wasn't - so you lost the challenge.

 

Aren't you challenging the spot? 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

11 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Aren't you challenging the spot? 

 

You're challenging the ruling on the field that the player was short of the line to gain.  If they are still short of the line to gain, you lose a timeout - if they gained the first down it is a successful challenge.  

Edited 13 hours ago by Bleeding Bills Blue

[Matt_In_NH]

It’s nuance.  You challenge progress to the line of gain not the exact spot.  So if you don’t change yardage to the line of gain you lose the challenge. The spot could move a few inches on many plays.