Who is the Bills' "Third Down Back"?

[Dan Darragh]

In 6 years with the Bills, their "fullback" has 6 carries for 10 yards.  He's actually caught more passes than he has rushing attempts and has caught 2 TD passes.  I would think they'd give him the ball now and again just to show different looks if he's already on the field.  (As it is, you can tell which way the running play is going to go based on where he lines up.)

[Dillenger4]

Remember the good ol' days when Hawes caught TD passes? Or Ty escaped the backfield and caught some tremendous first down snags or TD's??

[Mr. WEO]

21 minutes ago, Brand J said:

I thought you were smarter than “________ did this in college, it was obvious he’d do it in the NFL.” If what players did in college translated to what they’d do in the league, there’d be no busts. Skattebo - and a laundry list of other players - wouldn’t have lasted til later rounds, it’s all a projection, a gamble, a guess.
 

As far as Ty Johnson, I don’t really care what journey he had prior to joining the Bills, I only know that after last season he had proven his worth, which translated to one of the better 3rd down backs in the league - rushing, catching, and blocking. If you want to be upset that Ray Davis might have gotten in the way of Cam Skattebo, then blame all the teams that turned down Beane’s trade up attempts for Cole Bishop. Had any of those teams agreed, Davis likely wouldn’t be with the Bills.

 

we aren't talking about a college QB to the NFL or a WR.  No need for obfuscation....We are talking about a solid gadget type player in college who is playing the same role in the NFL.  It wasn't hard to see this coming.  Davis as a rookie--sure, keep him around to see what he is.  But Johnson is not a top 3rd down back--look at his play this year: 110 (27%) of the Offensive snaps, 11 caries, 2 1st downs.  This is exactly what he has been his whole career, consistently--he didn't suddenly change last year z(or this year for that matter).  

 

It was a lot easier to be comfortable assuming Skatebbo's likely productivity as a 3rd round rookie than Landon Jackson's.....

[Brand J]

40 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

we aren't talking about a college QB to the NFL or a WR.  No need for obfuscation....We are talking about a solid gadget type player in college who is playing the same role in the NFL.  It wasn't hard to see this coming.  Davis as a rookie--sure, keep him around to see what he is.  But Johnson is not a top 3rd down back--look at his play this year: 110 (27%) of the Offensive snaps, 11 caries, 2 1st downs.  This is exactly what he has been his whole career, consistently--he didn't suddenly change last year z(or this year for that matter).  

 

It was a lot easier to be comfortable assuming Skatebbo's likely productivity as a 3rd round rookie than Landon Jackson's.....

If it was obvious that Skattebo could do to grown men, professional athletes, what he had been doing to college kids, I guarantee he would’ve went before the 4th round. It wasn’t obvious, because it never is. Every player is a projection. Never mind QB or WR, there have been plenty of RB busts in the NFL. Obviously our own brain trust thought that Zach Moss would project well and was taken an entire round earlier than Skattebo.

 

As I gather, the crux of your argument seems to be “we shouldn’t have put faith in Ty Johnson. We should have traded him for whatever we could get and selected Skattebo in the third.” (Or in the 4th rather than Deone Walker) The flaw in that logic is that Johnson was coming off a very good season, he was cheap and productive in his role. There was nothing that said a rookie could come in and give the Bills the same or better as a third down back. The position wasn’t a need, so Skattebo was never on the table. 

[Mr. WEO]

9 minutes ago, Brand J said:

If it was obvious that Skattebo could do to grown men, professional athletes, what he had been doing to college kids, I guarantee he would’ve went before the 4th round. It wasn’t obvious, because it never is. Every player is a projection. Never mind QB or WR, there have been plenty of RB busts in the NFL. Obviously our own brain trust thought that Zach Moss would project well and was taken an entire round earlier than Skattebo.

 

As I gather, the crux of your argument seems to be “we shouldn’t have put faith in Ty Johnson. We should have traded him for whatever we could get and selected Skattebo in the third.” (Or in the 4th rather than Deone Walker) The flaw in that logic is that Johnson was coming off a very good season, he was cheap and productive in his role. There was nothing that said a rookie could come in and give the Bills the same or better as a third down back. The position wasn’t a need, so Skattebo was never on the table. 

 

I've already punctured your "Johnson was coming off a very good season", especially as a "3rd down back".  He wasn't.  It was another mediocrity.  He was expendable therefore.  This has been hammered home this season.  He is what he has been. 

 

Skattebo was the second ranked RB coming into the draft by NFL.com after the combine.  He finished 5th in Heisman voting.  He wasn't some kid toiling in obscurity.  NFL GMs make bad decisions every year (see Beane re: WR drafting nearly every year).  Skattebo had the lowest bust potential of any RB in the draft simply because of the way he plays.   

[brianthomas]

1 hour ago, Dillenger4 said:

Remember the good ol' days when Hawes caught TD passes? Or Ty escaped the backfield and caught some tremendous first down snags or TD's??

i remember earlier this season, in the 1st couple games, we ran some of those Johnson wheel routes & passes to the flat & he simply couldnt catch the ball. Ever since i havent seen them try to run those plays at all. Johnson's receiving stats so far this season: 2 catches on 7 targets for 19 total yards. Thats just not good enough.

 

[Brand J]

8 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I've already punctured your "Johnson was coming off a very good season", especially as a "3rd down back".  He wasn't.  It was another mediocrity.  He was expendable therefore.  This has been hammered home this season.  He is what he has been. 

 

Skattebo was the second ranked RB coming into the draft by NFL.com after the combine.  He finished 5th in Heisman voting.  He wasn't some kid toiling in obscurity.  NFL GMs make bad decisions every year (see Beane re: WR drafting nearly every year).  Skattebo had the lowest bust potential of any RB in the draft simply because of the way he plays.   

There was no “puncture,” Johnson was coming off a good season. He was the Bills best blocking RB and had some clutch catches to go with it. His own QB called him “the best 3rd down back in the league,” but I guess we’re to trust your opinion more? The guy sitting at home watching on his couch?

 

Theres no question GMs make bad decisions all the time and for whatever reason, 104 players went before Skattebo, including seven RBs. Seven. Again, it doesn’t matter so much what they’ve done in college as it does what they’re projected to do in the pros. Numerous Heisman winners never amounted to anything, but Skattebo finished 5th so roll out the red carpet! 

[Nester]

You don't need a 3rd down back if your 3rd and 10....

[LABILLBACKER]

Somebody needs to sit down with Brady and explain to him that this team has only 2 elite players. And they're both on offense.  I don't even care anymore if Jimbo struggles some in pass blocking. Make him a 3 down RB and start diversifying his play tree. Right now Ty Johnson, Davis and Gilliam are worthless within the structure of our offense. 

[Goin Breakdown]

Elijah Moore. 

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, Brand J said:

There was no “puncture,” Johnson was coming off a good season. He was the Bills best blocking RB and had some clutch catches to go with it. His own QB called him “the best 3rd down back in the league,” but I guess we’re to trust your opinion more? The guy sitting at home watching on his couch?

 

Theres no question GMs make bad decisions all the time and for whatever reason, 104 players went before Skattebo, including seven RBs. Seven. Again, it doesn’t matter so much what they’ve done in college as it does what they’re projected to do in the pros. Numerous Heisman winners never amounted to anything, but Skattebo finished 5th so roll out the red carpet! 

 

Look, Josh is the nicest guy in the NFL...but what's his QB calling him now? 

 

Skattebo was far more intriguing a rookie prospect than Johnson has been his entire journeyman career.  Given his predraft assessment, he was a steal in the 3rd roundHe has disappeaed nearly completely, despite being labeled the 3rd best 3rd down RB in the league.  Who is calling him that now?  Anyone on the coaching staff---they certainly know more about this that anyone on this board.  

 

But since you want to make hay about "seven" Rbs picked before him, how are the 4 picked ahead of him doing?  how were they projected to do in the pros?  Were they on the red carpet?

[Brand J]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Look, Josh is the nicest guy in the NFL...but what's his QB calling him now? 

 

Skattebo was far more intriguing a rookie prospect than Johnson has been his entire journeyman career.  Given his predraft assessment, he was a steal in the 3rd roundHe has disappeaed nearly completely, despite being labeled the 3rd best 3rd down RB in the league.  Who is calling him that now?  Anyone on the coaching staff---they certainly know more about this that anyone on this board.  

 

But since you want to make hay about "seven" Rbs picked before him, how are the 4 picked ahead of him doing?  how were they projected to do in the pros?  Were they on the red carpet?

You’re asking where has Johnson been? Have you been watching games this season? Let me give you a hint… he has a stranglehold on the team’s 3rd down snaps. And who’s giving him those snaps? The same coaching staff that “knows better than anyone on this board.” Obviously if they shared your views he wouldn’t even get a jersey on game day, but that’s not remotely close to being true so your “point” is moot.
 

I don’t care how Skattebo is doing, or what teams missed out on him, all I know is he was never an option for the Bills in the third. Coming out of last season, it was clear we had productive RBs and all 3 had a role. We had far more pressing needs at draft time than a 5th place Heisman candidate 😂

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, Brand J said:

You’re asking where has Johnson been? Have you been watching games this season? Let me give you a hint… he has a stranglehold on the team’s 3rd down snaps. And who’s giving him those snaps? The same coaching staff that “knows better than anyone on this board.” Obviously if they shared your views he wouldn’t even get a jersey on game day, but that’s not remotely close to being true so your “point” is moot.
 

I don’t care how Skattebo is doing, or what teams missed out on him, all I know is he was never an option for the Bills in the third. Coming out of last season, it was clear we had productive RBs and all 3 had a role. We had far more pressing needs at draft time than a 5th place Heisman candidate 😂

 

well the point I made up front is that he wasn't an option because chose to not make him one, standing pat with Johnson.

 

"a stanglehold on the team's 3rd down snaps", does he?! The man has 13 touches total in 6 games--in which the Bills have had 68 3rd down snaps.  This qualifies as a "stranglehold"?  And despite having the 3rd best 3rd down RB in the NFL strangleholding the 3rd down snaps...the Bills are 13th in 3rd down conversion.

 

even the simplest scrutiny exposes your argument as weightless.  it struggles to find logic in it's random claims.

[Brand J]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

well the point I made up front is that he wasn't an option because chose to not make him one, standing pat with Johnson.

 

"a stanglehold on the team's 3rd down snaps", does he?! The man has 13 touches total in 6 games--in which the Bills have had 68 3rd down snaps.  This qualifies as a "stranglehold"?  And despite having the 3rd best 3rd down RB in the NFL strangleholding the 3rd down snaps...the Bills are 13th in 3rd down conversion.

 

even the simplest scrutiny exposes your argument as weightless.  it struggles to find logic in it's random claims.

It’s not my “argument” you’re calling weightless, it’s the coaching staff’s decision. I’m only pointing out the obvious to you - they value Ty Johnson. Forget touches, what is his percentage of 3rd down snaps versus the other two backs? Case closed. He’s the Bills third down back until he’s not.
 

When someone trusts you enough to run an NFL team you’re more than welcome to make all the goofy decisions you want until you’re fired. Until then, sit back and continue to arm chair critique.

[Mr. WEO]

5 minutes ago, Brand J said:

It’s not my “argument” you’re calling weightless, it’s the coaching staff’s decision. I’m only pointing out the obvious to you - they value Ty Johnson. Forget touches, what is his percentage of 3rd down snaps versus the other two backs? Case closed. He’s the Bills third down back until he’s not.
 

When someone trusts you enough to run an NFL team you’re more than welcome to make all the goofy decisions you want until you’re fired. Until then, sit back and continue to arm chair critique.

 

forget touches?  lol, there it is!

 

anyway, why don't they give him the ball?  and for the record, there's a whole thread discussing McD asking his OC why Cook isn't out there on 3rd downs.  Why is he even asking such a silly question when the Bills have the 3rd best 3rd down RB (not by touching the ball mind you, but by simply being in the moment!)??  Is McD no longer part  of "the coaching staff"?  I hope Brady ripped McD a new one in his enlightening response to his woefully misinformed HC!

[Brand J]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

forget touches?  lol, there it is!

 

anyway, why don't they give him the ball?  and for the record, there's a whole thread discussing McD asking his OC why Cook isn't out there on 3rd downs.  Why is he even asking such a silly question when the Bills have the 3rd best 3rd down RB (not by touching the ball mind you, but by simply being in the moment!)??  Is McD no longer part  of "the coaching staff"?  I hope Brady ripped McD a new one in his enlightening response to his woefully misinformed HC!

From the offensive coaches all the way to the QB, they obviously feel Ty Johnson is the best option to play on 3rd downs. I don’t understand why you’re not getting that. It’s not my decision, its not your decision, it’s not even Ty’s decision, it’s the coaches. Hence why he plays the highest percentage of 3rd down snaps.