Who is the Bills' "Third Down Back"?

[Dan Darragh]

I'm tired of the cliches like "Ty Johnson" is the third down back.  So I asked ChatGPT to analyze RB utilization for the Bills on 3rd and 4th downs this year (excluding punts, FG attempts and kneel-downs).  Here are the results:

 

 

While Ty may have the title of "third down back" James has clearly done the main work and with greater success.  Considering this, it's even more inexplicable that Cook wasn't on the field for ANY third downs on Monday.

[Sweats]

Should have been Skateboo for the tough yardage, but i guess our FO didn't see his worth in the draft

[Einstein]

James Cook should be on the field every single play that he doesn’t need an oxygen mask.

 

 

 

 

[Sweats]

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

James Cook should be on the field every single play that he doesn’t need an oxygen mask.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would think the same, however, Cook just doesn't have the size to be an "every down" back.........but, if our coaching staff utilized his skillset correctly, they would understand when he NEEDS to be on the field.

[Einstein]

Just now, Sweats said:

I would think the same, however, Cook just doesn't have the size to be an "every down" back.........but, if our coaching staff utilized his skillset correctly, they would understand when he NEEDS to be on the field.

 

Says who?

 

This isn’t the 1970’s where RB’s were a plodding 3 yards and a cloud of dust.

 

Cook can run the ball, catch the ball in pass routes, run screens, etc.

 

Every time he is on the field, defenses have to pay attention to him. He should be on the field all the time.

[Brand J]

13 minutes ago, Sweats said:

Should have been Skateboo for the tough yardage, but i guess our FO didn't see his worth in the draft

Didn’t he go in the top of the 4th? That would mean picking him in the 3rd when we already had Johnson and Davis backing Cook, which wouldn’t have happened. Trading up in the 4th would’ve meant more assets than it took to get Deone Walker and that also wasn’t happening. I would’ve loved Xavier Watts or that rangy New Orleans safety who picked off Josh, but that’s all hindsight. Skattebo was never a realistic option at any point. 

[Sweats]

2 minutes ago, Brand J said:

Didn’t he go in the top of the 4th? That would mean picking him in the 3rd when we already had Johnson and Davis backing Cook, which wouldn’t have happened. Trading up in the 4th would’ve meant more assets than it took to get Deone Walker and that also wasn’t happening. I would’ve loved Xavier Watts or that rangy New Orleans safety who picked off Josh, but that’s all hindsight. Skattebo was never a realistic option at any point. 

 

 

 

 

A beast and bull of a RB, is always a realistic option at any point...........you need tough and short yardage?...........Skattebo

[skibum]

It should be Cook, but I have also been wondering what happened to sending Ty Johnson down the field to catch some balls, regardless of the down. That was really effective at times last year. 

[dayman]

When we need blocking Ty

[JP51]

I don't think Brady himself could answer this question...  I think they are rudderless here and make by the minute situational decisions. the fact of the matter is that when it is the most crucial to take your best offensive weapon not wearing 17 off the field is probably not a good idea. 

Edited 4 hours ago by JP51

[Mr. WEO]

26 minutes ago, Brand J said:

Didn’t he go in the top of the 4th? That would mean picking him in the 3rd when we already had Johnson and Davis backing Cook, which wouldn’t have happened. Trading up in the 4th would’ve meant more assets than it took to get Deone Walker and that also wasn’t happening. I would’ve loved Xavier Watts or that rangy New Orleans safety who picked off Josh, but that’s all hindsight. Skattebo was never a realistic option at any point. 

 

this is the type of thinking that got them to this point.  Johnson and Davis were welll known entities--situational scrubs.  Not taking a chance on a wild card like Skattebo so he could keep TWO of this type of guys is another example of Beane's sclerotic Offensive thought process.

[JAMIEBUF12]

Last season I thought it was Ray Davis,

To me it seemed every time the Bills needed  3RD AND ONE or a 4th and one and Cook got the ball he got stuffed .I just don't think James is good for the tough one yarders when the defense is prepared for it.

On first and second down it seems like he rips off 6 to 8 yarders...

GO BILLS!

[Brand J]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

this is the type of thinking that got them to this point.  Johnson and Davis were welll known entities--situational scrubs.  Not taking a chance on a wild card like Skattebo so he could keep TWO of this type of guys is another example of Beane's sclerotic Offensive thought process.

Before the draft Johnson was thought of as one of the better third down backs in the league. Ray Davis was also very productive after his rookie year. You’re not taking a 4th (wildcard) RB in the top 3 rounds when you’ve got far more pressing issues elsewhere. 

[Mr. WEO]

7 minutes ago, Brand J said:

Before the draft Johnson was thought of as one of the better third down backs in the league. Ray Davis was also very productive after his rookie year. You’re not taking a 4th (wildcard) RB in the top 3 rounds when you’ve got far more pressing issues elsewhere. 

 

Then trade put out feelers for Johnson--see if anyone else thinks he's a better 3rd down back than what they have.  And why keep both of them anyway--make Davis your third down back.  Now you have 3 backs but only one is doing anything--and 3rd down rushing is what now?

[Brand J]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Then trade put out feelers for Johnson--see if anyone else thinks he's a better 3rd down back than what they have.  And why keep both of them anyway--make Davis your third down back.  Now you have 3 backs but only one is doing anything--and 3rd down rushing is what now?

Trade one of the better third down backs in the league to gamble on an unknown RB in the 3rd? Yeah, no thanks. At the time all three backs were coming off a season where they had much more production than they do now - so much so that there was a large contingent of people on this board who would’ve rather seen James Cook walk than get an extension.
 

We all see how well Cam Skattebo is playing now, but without magical  glasses from the future, it was a guessing game. His impact could’ve been on the Zach Moss level, nobody knows. He was never an option for a team that had real holes and depth issues elsewhere. 

[Mr. WEO]

Skattebo is playing exactly as he did in college--free money as a late 3rd rounder to anyone paying attention.  No magic glasses needed.  Johnson is a journeyman who has rushed for 63 career 1st downs over 7 years and over 263 carries (22%).  Last year he had 13 on 41 carries (obviously not all 3rd downs, so his 3rd down conversion rate has to be less than 32%.  In comparison, the Bills as a team had 360 1st downs--he represented 3.9% of those (Davis was responsible for nearly twice as many). 

 

If that's one of the better 3rd down backs then it questions the need for such guys on the roster. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

The term "3rd down back" is often misleading IMO. I prefer the term "passing down back". On passing downs typically we see Johnson in there. On 3rd and short we see Cook more. 

[Brand J]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Skattebo is playing exactly as he did in college--free money as a late 3rd rounder to anyone paying attention.  No magic glasses needed.  Johnson is a journeyman who has rushed for 63 career 1st downs over 7 years and over 263 carries (22%).  Last year he had 13 on 41 carries (obviously not all 3rd downs, so his 3rd down conversion rate has to be less than 32%.  In comparison, the Bills as a team had 360 1st downs--he represented 3.9% of those (Davis was responsible for nearly twice as many). 

 

If that's one of the better 3rd down backs then it questions the need for such guys on the roster. 

I thought you were smarter than “________ did this in college, it was obvious he’d do it in the NFL.” If what players did in college translated to what they’d do in the league, there’d be no busts. Skattebo - and a laundry list of other players - wouldn’t have lasted til later rounds, it’s all a projection, a gamble, a guess.
 

As far as Ty Johnson, I don’t really care what journey he had prior to joining the Bills, I only know that after last season he had proven his worth, which translated to one of the better 3rd down backs in the league - rushing, catching, and blocking. If you want to be upset that Ray Davis might have gotten in the way of Cam Skattebo, then blame all the teams that turned down Beane’s trade up attempts for Cole Bishop. Had any of those teams agreed, Davis likely wouldn’t be with the Bills.

[nuklz2594]

Jackson Hawes as fb

[Never NEVER Give-up]

1 hour ago, Sweats said:

Should have been Skateboo for the tough yardage, but i guess our FO didn't see his worth in the draft

Bills like their RB room, it is 4 deep and only 3 dress for games.  Giants had no 3rd round pick.  Bills took Landon Jackson in the 3rd - jury's still out.  Giants took Skat in Rd 4 at 105, Bills took Walker at 109 - and he's a keeper!