Keon WTF?

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Figster said:

Look at Cooks separation and then explain why James Cook had the lowest number of touches this season vs Patriots. Zero pass completions. One of the best scoring machines in the NFL. Hello

 

 How about Joe Brady WTF?

Brady would rather run Jet Sweeps with Knox or run into stacked boxes on 2nd and 1 then to throw the ball to Cook and get him in space.  Joe Brady is a major problem IMO

[gobills404]

46 minutes ago, ganesh said:

They should be throwing to James Cook more often.

They should be letting him run more actual routes like he did at Georgia. Sick of watching him have to stay in to block for a few seconds before leaking out, catching a pass, and barely having a chance to blink before getting hit.

[gobills404]

1 hour ago, Figster said:

Look at Cooks separation and then explain why James Cook had the lowest number of touches this season vs Patriots. Zero pass completions. One of the best scoring machines in the NFL. Hello

 

 How about Joe Brady WTF?

Outside of that 51 yard catch and run in week 1 Cook is averaging an abysmal 3.5 yards per reception. Brady needs to find a way to make Cook an actual weapon in the passing game before he starts getting more targets.

 

Edited 13 hours ago by gobills404

[BillsFanForever19]

23 hours ago, Pete said:

Keons numbers are fairly comparable to those drafted behind him.  

The Bills had the first pick in the second round, a coveted draft spot.  Beane traded with Carolina, trading 32 for 33 and a 4th.

 

Beane fielded many trade offers.  Cooper was on the board, a run on WR, it was basically the first pick of a new draft.  So I am sure the offers were substantial.  I would like to know what Beane turned down, because he should have accepted the best offer.  Trade back- there is a good chance Coleman is still available.  One trick Ponies usually don’t do well in NFL.

 

Draft night I wanted Cooper or Ladd, but I wanted a trade back most of all, because of loaded up on draft picks in that draft and the next years.  Instead we got a slow WR that struggles to win 50/50 balls 

 

It depends how far he traded back.

 

Considering Ja'Lynn Polk, who was considered to go much later than Coleman as an Outside WR prospect, was reached for just 4 Picks after we took him (and has already been traded away for a bag of balls) - I think the idea that we could have waited on Coleman is inaccurate.

 

It's been said they settled on Polk bc they missed out on Coleman. And the other Top 3 Outside WR's left - Adonai Mitchell, Troy Franklin, and Jermaine Burton, all had red flags that caused them to heavily slip down boards. 

 

On the Ladd or Cooper note - I've beaten this horse to death, both Pre-Draft and Post-Draft to this day, but Ladd wasn't compatible for us. We didn't need guys who were Slots. Anyone who worked out of the Slot even as much as 50% of snaps were out. We had that covered with Khalil Shakir, Dalton Kincaid, and Curtis Samuel. But we had nothing (besides Mack Hollins) to replace Stefon Diggs and Gabe Davis on the Outside. And as I said in the post, Coleman has better numbers than McConkey thus far this season anyways.

 

Hard to argue against the idea of taking Cooper DeJean instead of Keon Coleman with hindsight, especially seeing the position we're in at CB right now. But at the time, we didn't know Douglas was going to hit a wall and as I said, we had a *glaring hole* at Outside WR. And when you consider the Draft red flags with Mitchell, Burton, and Franklin - the pickings were incredibly slim at that point.

Edited 41 minutes ago by BillsFanForever19

[In Summary]

I don't dislike Keon at all. I dislike the fact that Beane thought he was the type of receiver you draft that high to pair with Allen. Contested catch = not open. There will be games where matchups will basically take Keon out as an option. 

[Figster]

10 hours ago, gobills404 said:

Outside of that 51 yard catch and run in week 1 Cook is averaging an abysmal 3.5 yards per reception. Brady needs to find a way to make Cook an actual weapon in the passing game before he starts getting more targets.

 

How about 7.4

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/4379399/james-cook

[gobills404]

4 minutes ago, Figster said:

How about 7.4

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/4379399/james-cook

 

10 hours ago, gobills404 said:

Outside of that 51 yard catch and run in week 1

 

[Captain Hindsight]

2 hours ago, In Summary said:

I don't dislike Keon at all. I dislike the fact that Beane thought he was the type of receiver you draft that high to pair with Allen. Contested catch = not open. There will be games where matchups will basically take Keon out as an option. 

It does seem odd doesn’t it? Keon has flashed at times, but Allen got better when he had shifty fast receivers (Brown, Sanders, Beasley, Diggs) vs the big types (Benjamin, Andre Holmes)

 

I’ll have to see if I can find the interview, but something Allen said that it was easier to target those guys 

[Figster]

10 hours ago, Pete said:

Brady would rather run Jet Sweeps with Knox or run into stacked boxes on 2nd and 1 then to throw the ball to Cook and get him in space.  Joe Brady is a major problem IMO

Thanks Pete,

 

I'm not going as far as calling Joe Brady a major problem considering our offensive ranking. 

 

I do however absolutely agree that way more can be done with James Cook in the passing game. 

[Figster]

9 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

 

 

Cook only has 12 receptions. I'm not sure why you feel the need to remove his biggest play to make a point.

 

It does make my point. Get Cook the ball enough times and good things happen. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Figster

[colin]

my big gripe w brady is he's so arrogant (shades of mcd).

 

no thought toward self tendencies, run when we are under center, pass when in shot gun.

 

no concept of lining up for your best advantage vs the opponent, he just calls what he feels like all the time.

 

most of all though, he is so so resistant to having an offensive identity.  asking allen to just be superman is NOT a coaching feature, it should be seen as a coaching failure if it has to happen to win (way too much).  multi back and te sets, extra OL, why the heck are we not running that until someone stops it?  out of those formations with cook as a cheeky outlet we coulda had an extra 100+ yards and at least 7 more points vs NE, even with all the other bad stuff that happened.  instead we ended drives with incomplete passes to covered WRs even after allen steals an extra 5 seconds of time behind good blocking.  you don't have to be a pro scout to see what NE is good at and what they struggle against.

 

it really shouldn't be this difficult given the talent we have on the O side of the ball.

6 minutes ago, Figster said:

Cook only has 12 receptions. I'm not sure why you feel the need to remove his biggest play to make a point.

 

It does make my point. Get Cook the ball enough times and good things happen. 

 

5 targets to him last sunday, sacrificing forced trash attempts to covered wrs, prolly gets him another 40-50 yards on 3-4 catches.

[hondo in seattle]

12 hours ago, gobills404 said:

Guess Kincaid can’t separate either

 

 

I'm not very good at math so I need someone to help me with this.  I've sincerely always believed that 71 is bigger than 58.  So why is Cook ranked 6th instead of 1st?

 

Also, this defines "Open" as 2-5 yards of separation.  What if you have 6 yards of separation? Is that not also open?  

[gobills404]

34 minutes ago, Figster said:

Cook only has 12 receptions. I'm not sure why you feel the need to remove his biggest play to make a point.

 

It does make my point. Get Cook the ball enough times and good things happen. 

Because it’s an extreme outlier. And I’m not saying good things don’t happen when Cook gets the ball. I’m saying Brady and Josh need to give Cook better opportunities to make good things happen after catching the ball. 

[DCOrange]

1 hour ago, Captain Hindsight said:

It does seem odd doesn’t it? Keon has flashed at times, but Allen got better when he had shifty fast receivers (Brown, Sanders, Beasley, Diggs) vs the big types (Benjamin, Andre Holmes)

 

I’ll have to see if I can find the interview, but something Allen said that it was easier to target those guys 

To be fair, that could simply be because guys like Beasley and Diggs are good and guys like Benjamin and Holmes are bad lol. Perhaps a good contested catch type of guy would do well with Josh. 

 

At any rate, Keon has been okay so far for us. Feels like hes trending towards not being what we hoped for but of the 5 WRs that were taken right around him, I think 2 have been definitively better, 2 have been definitively worse, and 1 has been about on par regardless of having differing skillsets and whatnot.

 

I think his potential as an outside contested catch guy and a run blocker does make him a fairly valuable prospect, but it seems like the "it" thing that's trending right now is WRs that can play anywhere and particularly find soft spots over the middle. That's the McConkey types and Coleman is not that. But he can still be good; we'll see. Needing to be disciplined multiple times in 2 years doesn't feel like a good sign though.