BillsFan130 Posted September 5 Posted September 5 32 minutes ago, HappyDays said: I mean you're just wrong about this. 2024 stats (both played 16 games, although Karlaftis played 96 more snaps): Sacks - Karlaftis 8.0 / Rousseau 8.0 Pressures - Karlaftis 37 / Rousseau 35 TFLs - Karlaftis 9 / Rousseau 16 I know stats don't always tell a black and white story but how can you look at that comparison and tell me Karlaftis is a "game breaking talent" while Rousseau is a JAG? There's a tendency on this board to act like everything KC touches turns to gold. But I think their roster has been a bit overrated. Where they really separate themselves from the rest of the league is their coaching. Compared to our roster on the whole I don't think they had some massive advantage last year... And don't get me wrong, I wish we had at least one legit game changer other than Allen, and I haven't been a big fan of how Beane has prioritized certain positions over others. But he has built a roster that has a very high floor if not a high ceiling. It's a roster that has beaten KC in the regular season where it is more about matchups, but has lost in the playoffs where it is more about coaching. If you're giving Karlaftis that much of an edge over Rousseau, and the same for the rest of the respective rosters, you're giving McDermott a built in excuse that he doesn't really deserve. Ya Bills and Chiefs rosters are very similar IMO- 3 things give the Chiefs the slight edge, and only one of them is a player: -Chris Jones -Andy Reid -Spags 1 Quote
Victory Formation Posted September 5 Posted September 5 Dion Dawkins is a massive human being. Good Lord he even makes Torrence look small… Quote
BillsFanForever19 Posted September 5 Posted September 5 (edited) 21 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: The thought that we have zero Big Time players is kind of ridiculous though buddy Dawkins is a blue chip tackle.. severely underrated and been one of the best in the business.. always on an island Spencer Brown is becoming one of the top right tackles in the world and is physically on a level different than 98% of them .. like give me Green Bay in the super bowl and a Spencer Brown vs parson's matchup.. and Brown will make him his ***** and physically Maul him James Cook is perfect for our system which makes him a big time player Christian Benford is a legitimate number one cornerback And we have other players on the rise and other players like Matt Milano who were previous all pros We have plenty of talent if we had Christian Benford for four quarters last year I truly believe we win because we lost by three and Elam got abused 2 years ago no Benford , no rapp and no Bernard with other contributors banged up or missing That is truly the difference.. we're getting big injuries the week before we play the Chiefs in playoffs.. an NFL team with eight weeks to work out the kinks can figure something out at the NFL level Losing two or three starters the week before a conference championship game or during the game is infinitely harder to make up I agree that big time injuries at the worst times cost us games against the Chiefs. Even the :13 second game, I feel a healthy Tre White would have made the difference between winning and losing. But while having Benford and Rapp may have gotten us to the Super Bowl, we still wouldn't have won against that Eagles team and the kind of game they were playing. Ultimately, I wasn't as upset as others about the Chiefs loss. Given the kind of soft rebuild team we had last season - I think it's a miracle we were able to make it to where we did. But that team wasn't built to take on the kind of Offense and Defense that the Eagles had. Edited September 5 by BillsFanForever19 Quote
White Linen Posted September 6 Posted September 6 22 hours ago, twoandfourteen said: Now, just imagine what Josh Allen could achieve with a competent GM, a better Head Coach, and one or two more elite, blue-chip players. Imagine if he had just a decent offensive line, running game and we picked higher in the first round. Quote
twoandfourteen Posted September 6 Posted September 6 2 hours ago, HappyDays said: I mean you're just wrong about this. 2024 stats (both played 16 games, although Karlaftis played 96 more snaps): Sacks - Karlaftis 8.0 / Rousseau 8.0 Pressures - Karlaftis 37 / Rousseau 35 TFLs - Karlaftis 9 / Rousseau 16 I know stats don't always tell a black and white story but how can you look at that comparison and tell me Karlaftis is a "game breaking talent" while Rousseau is a JAG? There's a tendency on this board to act like everything KC touches turns to gold. But I think their roster has been a bit overrated. Where they really separate themselves from the rest of the league is their coaching. Compared to our roster on the whole I don't think they had some massive advantage last year... And don't get me wrong, I wish we had at least one legit game changer other than Allen, and I haven't been a big fan of how Beane has prioritized certain positions over others. But he has built a roster that has a very high floor if not a high ceiling. It's a roster that has beaten KC in the regular season where it is more about matchups, but has lost in the playoffs where it is more about coaching. If you're giving Karlaftis that much of an edge over Rousseau, and the same for the rest of the respective rosters, you're giving McDermott a built in excuse that he doesn't really deserve. Karlaftis has the same number of sacks in three seasons that Rousseau has in four. He’s a more impactful DE, that’s inarguable. You make a great point about “giving McDermott an excuse” — I agree completely. At the heart of this is what the Chiefs are able to do in the draft vs what Beane is able to do. In 2022, the Chiefs spent two first round picks and walked away with CB Trent McDuffie (traded up) and DE George Karlaftis. Beane traded up for Kaiir Elam, with the pick of Greg Rousseau the year before. The Chiefs walked away with two foundational pieces for their defense. The Bills picked yet another first round bust in Elam and a “good-but-not-great” DE in Rousseau. 2 minutes ago, White Linen said: Imagine if he had just a decent offensive line, running game and we picked higher in the first round. As for your first two concerns, take that up with Brandon Beane. As for the third, the Chiefs, Ravens, and Eagles seem to have no problem finding impact players every now and again — and they draft later than the Bills do. Quote
Buffalo716 Posted September 6 Posted September 6 2 hours ago, BillsFan130 said: Ya Bills and Chiefs rosters are very similar IMO- 3 things give the Chiefs the slight edge, and only one of them is a player: -Chris Jones -Andy Reid -Spags Spags has track records with mediocre teams that are nothing close to spectacular LOL His system and player development is nowhere near as effective as Sean McDermott's over their 16 years being head coaches or defensive coordinators He literally needs a bunch of really good pieces to look great.. Sean McDermott has no problem trotting out for 5th 6th round picks on drafted players and our defense really doesn't miss that much of a beat He also just got his ass kicked in the super bowl This fan base over rates him severely he's the most overrated person in the NFL on this website.. when I went to Kansas City Leslie Frazier's last year they were all saying how they would trade spagnola for Frasier in a millisecond Now that doesn't mean they're correct always but they do watch him all the time and they complain about him constantly If you took a plus one system for all the major statistical categories... Points per game against, yards per game against.. passing yards per game against.. rushing yards per game against... Turnovers.. yards per play. Both have 16 years as a head coach or calling defenses.. Sean McDermott is like plus 25 to those stats... It's not even close who could take great or barely NFL players and get them to play their best ball in an NFL game on Sunday and it's Sean McDermott What the Chiefs had is a healthy defense every postseason when we play them.. they lost two players in their secondary once and Gabe Davis look like Jerry Rice We see them without two or three starters every playoff game on defense and multiple key contributors since we run a rotation We literally trotted out AJ Klein in a playoff game two years ago because we are so thin at linebacker LOL and we lost by three We're getting injuries the week before we see the Chiefs in a game of inches in the playoffs where the talent margin is thin.. yeah eight defensive players on the injury report is the difference Quote
BillsFan130 Posted September 6 Posted September 6 2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Spags has track records with mediocre teams that are nothing close to spectacular LOL His system and player development is nowhere near as effective as Sean McDermott's over their 16 years being head coaches or defensive coordinators He literally needs a bunch of really good pieces to look great.. Sean McDermott has no problem trotting out for 5th 6th round picks on drafted players and our defense really doesn't miss that much of a beat He also just got his ass kicked in the super bowl This fan base over rates him severely he's the most overrated person in the NFL on this website.. when I went to Kansas City Leslie Frazier's last year they were all saying how they would trade spagnola for Frasier in a millisecond Now that doesn't mean they're correct always but they do watch him all the time and they complain about him constantly If you took a plus one system for all the major statistical categories... Points per game against, yards per game against.. passing yards per game against.. rushing yards per game against... Turnovers.. yards per play. Both have 16 years as a head coach or calling defenses.. Sean McDermott is like plus 25 to those stats... It's not even close who could take great or barely NFL players and get them to play their best ball in an NFL game on Sunday and it's Sean McDermott What the Chiefs had is a healthy defense every postseason when we play them.. they lost two players in their secondary once and Gabe Davis look like Jerry Rice We see them without two or three starters every playoff game on defense and multiple key contributors since we run a rotation We literally trotted out AJ Klein in a playoff game two years ago because we are so thin at linebacker LOL and we lost by three We're getting injuries the week before we see the Chiefs in a game of inches in the playoffs where the talent margin is thin.. yeah eight defensive players on the injury report is the difference I would take Spags 10/10 times over McDermott. Are you forgetting his 2007 year with the giants where he held the greatest offence of all time to 14 points in the Super Bowl? I don't care about regular season stats where McDermott dominates rookie and mediocre QBs- To keep it simple: McDermotts defence crumbles in the playoffs, Spags defences rises to the top. Its really hard to hard argue that ^ Quote
Buffalo716 Posted September 6 Posted September 6 (edited) 3 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: I would take Spags 10/10 times over McDermott. Are you forgetting his 2007 year with the giants where he held the greatest offence of all time to 14 points in the Super Bowl? I don't care about regular season stats where McDermott dominates rookie and mediocre QBs- To keep it simple: McDermotts defence crumbles in the playoffs, Spags defences rises to the top. Its really hard to hard argue that ^ No it's not that hard to argue that LOL He just got his ass whooped in the playoffs . They couldn't stop a nose bleed And no, there's a reason why he will never be a head coach again it's because he's not at that level Spagnola is also playing those same crappy quarterbacks in the regular season and his numbers don't compare.. guess what to make the playoffs in the NFL you need to be good in the regular season So it does matter Sean McDermott would have had the bills better prepared and we would have not gotten our asses kicked in the super bowl Edited September 6 by Buffalo716 Quote
White Linen Posted September 6 Posted September 6 30 minutes ago, twoandfourteen said: Karlaftis has the same number of sacks in three seasons that Rousseau has in four. He’s a more impactful DE, that’s inarguable. You make a great point about “giving McDermott an excuse” — I agree completely. At the heart of this is what the Chiefs are able to do in the draft vs what Beane is able to do. In 2022, the Chiefs spent two first round picks and walked away with CB Trent McDuffie (traded up) and DE George Karlaftis. Beane traded up for Kaiir Elam, with the pick of Greg Rousseau the year before. The Chiefs walked away with two foundational pieces for their defense. The Bills picked yet another first round bust in Elam and a “good-but-not-great” DE in Rousseau. As for your first two concerns, take that up with Brandon Beane. As for the third, the Chiefs, Ravens, and Eagles seem to have no problem finding impact players every now and again — and they draft later than the Bills do. What I would give to finish like the Ravens. Quote
BillsFan130 Posted September 6 Posted September 6 1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said: No it's not that hard to argue that LOL He just got his ass whooped in the playoffs . They couldn't stop and nose bleed And no there's a reason why he will never be a head coach again it's because he's not at that level Him not getting a head coaching job has nothing to do with his defence. A lot more traits to be a head coach rather than just coaching a good unit. (Age, leadership etc- the list goes on) He has coached his defence to 3 Super Bowl wins, and maybe had the greatest display ever against the 2007 pats. And you're focusing on a few bad playoff games? Should we go over McDermott's bad playoff games? I don't think we can over the good ones, because they there aren't many Quote
Buffalo716 Posted September 6 Posted September 6 (edited) 2 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: Him not getting a head coaching job has nothing to do with his defence. A lot more traits to be a head coach rather than just coaching a good unit. (Age, leadership etc- the list goes on) He has coached his defence to 3 Super Bowl wins, and maybe had the greatest display ever against the 2007 pats. And you're focusing on a few bad playoff games? Should we go over McDermott's bad playoff games? I don't think we can over the good ones, because they there aren't many He's not even close on the level of a pure defensive coordinator as a Bill belichick or dick lebeau Wade Phillips is a better pure defensive coordinator Spagnola is good with a bunch of high-end pieces around him.. he can't run a defense with Levi Wallace as his number two like the bills did and went to the playoffs easily His defense would get torched Edited September 6 by Buffalo716 Quote
BillsFan130 Posted September 6 Posted September 6 Just now, Buffalo716 said: He's not even close on the level of a pure defensive coordinator as a Bill belichick or dick lebeau Wade Phillips is a better pure defensive coordin The conversation is Spags vs Mcdermott sir. Until McDermott can win a Super Bowl backed by his defence actually showing up, I can't even put him in the same conversation as Spags. All good though , we can agree to disagree buddy Quote
Buffalo716 Posted September 6 Posted September 6 (edited) Just now, BillsFan130 said: The conversation is Spags vs Mcdermott sir. Until McDermott can win a Super Bowl backed by his defence actually showing up, I can't even put him in the same conversation as Spags. All good though , we can agree to disagree buddy So I guess Trent dilfer is better than Dan Marino lol we can agree that I'm done with this LOL Edited September 6 by Buffalo716 Quote
BillsFan130 Posted September 6 Posted September 6 1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said: So I guess Trent dilfer is better than Dan Marino lol we can agree that I'm done with this LOL Huh? Spags coached a UNIT three separate times to a championship. Not a player. A UNIT. Go to any championship his team has won, and you'll see an epic defensive performance or two along the way. That was a horrible analogy buddy, so I hope you're done after that Quote
Buffalo716 Posted September 6 Posted September 6 (edited) 3 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: Huh? Spags coached a UNIT three separate times to a championship. Not a player. A UNIT. Go to any championship his team has won, and you'll see an epic defensive performance or two along the way. That was a horrible analogy buddy, so I hope you're done after that Not really cuz if you're just using super bowls as the reason it's a perfect analogy It's a team game bro and he has plenty of games where he failed including the last super bowl He's nowhere near the unbeatable object you're making him out to be he's not that special Sean McDermott would not have our asses beat that bad I would bet my life savings on it in the super bowl Sean McDermott's defense with the Panthers in the super bowl held a winning team to the lowest yards in NFL history to his point lol Sean McDermott had a great defense in the super bowl.. they didn't lose because his defensive coaching Edited September 6 by Buffalo716 Quote
BillsFan130 Posted September 6 Posted September 6 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Not really cuz if you're just using super bowls as the reason it's a perfect analogy It's a team game bro and he has plenty of games where he failed including the last super bowl He's nowhere near the unbeatable object you're making him out to be he's not that special Sean McDermott would not have our asses beat that bad I would bet my life savings on it in the super bowl Ok. So are you actually saying McDermotts defence is NOT the reason why the bills haven't won a championship? Josh Allen's last 4 playoff exits. 29 TDs and 1 INT. Do I need to say more? Edited September 6 by BillsFan130 Quote
Buffalo716 Posted September 6 Posted September 6 (edited) 17 minutes ago, BillsFan130 said: Ok. So are you actually saying McDermotts defence is NOT the reason why the bills haven't won a championship? Josh Allen's last 4 playoff exits. 29 TDs and 1 INT. Do I need to say more? Circumstances mean everything.. we literally are getting banged up in the playoffs the week before we play them If there's one thing I've learned being around the game for 30 years it's that the NFL is a game of inches and the talent margin is slim... It gets slimmer in the playoffs And we play them 2 ago without our starting middle linebacker starting corner contributing safety and a bunch of other defensive guys beat up and we lose by three... We were trotting out AJ Klein who was retired and practice squad... Yeah that's the difference give us Benford and Bernard and we win I 100% believe that Last year we saw them without our best safety, and six other defensive players banged up from the last game or two.. and then we lost our best corner early in the game and we still lost by three in Arrowhead... Without our two best secondary players when they lost two secondary players for two quarters Gabe Davis looked like Jerry Rice We've never got to see the Chiefs without their starting middle linebacker and starting corner lol in fact when we did see them in a game where they lost two defensive secondary players on the fly Gabe Davis looked like Jerry Rice That makes my point that health is everything in February because Gabe Davis looked like Jerry Rice... We had 11 players on the injury report going into Arrowhead 7 or 8 of them on defense in a game of inches that is the difference there's no doubt in my mind In February health is as important as anything.. it's one thing if you lose a guy like von Miller in October.. that's why I don't even bring up von Miller because they're professionals and they get to adjust for weeks We lost all these guys versus the Ravens and then had to play the Chiefs six days later undermanned in a game of inches where the talent margin is already razor thin It's not Alabama versus Kennesaw State.. these are two top-level professional teams and we were hurting Edited September 6 by Buffalo716 Quote
twoandfourteen Posted September 6 Posted September 6 (edited) 1 hour ago, BillsFan130 said: Ok. So are you actually saying McDermotts defence is NOT the reason why the bills haven't won a championship? Josh Allen's last 4 playoff exits. 29 TDs and 1 INT. Do I need to say more? I had no idea that stat existed. FIRE MCDERMOTT. Honestly, that is unforgivable. EDIT: It just occurred to me that those numbers are impossible. Twenty-nine TDs in four games would be an average of 7.25 TDs per game. Edited September 6 by twoandfourteen Quote
BillsFan130 Posted September 6 Posted September 6 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Circumstances mean everything.. we literally are getting banged up in the playoffs the week before we play them If there's one thing I've learned being around the game for 30 years it's that the NFL is a game of inches and the talent margin is slim... It gets slimmer in the playoffs And we go on the road two years ago without our starting middle linebacker starting corner contributing safety and a bunch of other defensive guys beat up and we lose by three... Yeah that's the difference give us Benford and Bernard and we win I 100% believe that Last year we saw them without our starting cornerback, 5 other defensive players who got injured the week before during the Ravens playoff game.. and then we lost our best corner early in the game and we still lost by three We've never got to see the Chiefs without their starting middle linebacker and starting corner lol in fact when we did see them in a game where they lost two defensive secondary players on the fly Gabe Davis looked like Jerry Rice That makes my point that health is everything in February because Gabe Davis looked like Jerry Rice... We had 11 players on the injury report going into Arrowhead 7 or 8 of them on defense in a game of inches that is the difference there's no doubt in my mind In February health is as important as anything.. it's one thing if you lose a guy like von Miller in October.. that's why I don't even bring up von Miller because they're professionals and they get to adjust for weeks We lost all these guys versus the Ravens and then had to play the Chiefs six days later undermanned in a game of inches where the talent margin is already razor thin It's not Alabama versus Kennesaw State.. these are two top-level professional teams and we were hurting I understand. And those are fair points. Let's see if we least agree on this before I move on as I don't want to bombard the thread. 1. Spags has had massive defensive games in the playoffs, including some of the best ever which led to Super Bowl wins 2. McDermotts defences typically do great in the regular season but struggles a lot in the playoffs 3. Yes Spags has had bad games in the playoffs , like any defensive coordinator. (Including McDermott To say the least) 4. Yes bills have had more injuries in the playoffs than the chiefs on defence. Anything you disagree with there? Edited September 6 by BillsFan130 Quote
FireChans Posted September 6 Posted September 6 (edited) 10 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: He's not even close on the level of a pure defensive coordinator as a Bill belichick or dick lebeau Wade Phillips is a better pure defensive coordinator Spagnola is good with a bunch of high-end pieces around him.. he can't run a defense with Levi Wallace as his number two like the bills did and went to the playoffs easily His defense would get torched Who is KC elite #2 boundary CB that has carried Spags and their defense these last 4 seasons? Bashaud Breeland? Won an SB and went to 2 with Spags. Out of the league. Rashad Fenton? Won 2 SB’s with Spags. Out of the league. Jaylen Watson? Went to 2 SB’s with Spags and won both. 7th round pick. Missed all but 4 games last year. Who replaced him, to go to the SB, again? The Chiefs have largely had a very good CB1 and a very good slot CB and an unremarkable CB2. Hm, who does that sound like?? There was exactly ONE season where they had two good boundary corners. Sneed and Ward. They lost in the conference championship that year. Edited September 6 by FireChans Quote
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