More defense on Saturday, please, to finish the job, and take the final step

[Mister Defense]

 

The best thing for those on the fact based, evidence based side of this discussion, debate, is that Brandon Beane, the General Manager, who makes all of the decisions, seems to be thinking the same things we are. Extremely reassuring.

 

Great to know that our team's GM has the common sense to do what he did this off season and in the draft, focusing like a laser on the defense. As he has just built the best offense in the NFL and in Bills' history.

 

As part of that  he has made sure that Allen and the Bills finally had a top of the line, dangerous running game, including one of the best offensive lines in football.

 

He did not listen to the irrational folk, that small but vocal minority, who literally freaked out at the mere mention of "COMPLIMENTARY FOOTBALL".

 

Instead, he did the right thing, and the Bills have become one of the most balanced teams in the NFL, the top scoring NFL offense last year, and the best in the history of the franchise, as a result. 

 

Now, he is blocking out the irrational noise once again, and  focusing like a laser on making this a championship defense. That is what great leaders do, the right things for the team or whatever else they are leading. No matter what.  Great to see.

 

Like I said in this OP, it is the last step, (for now at least) as Allen, with an elite offense, may now have a defense that will help him to drive the Bills home. 

 

And Beane has just had one of the best off seasons and drafts the Bills have likely ever had--as it will likely be remembered as a seminal moment in the history of the Bills. We will see, of course.

 

Why not let it rest, and then come back to this in the middle of the season, and the end, to see how it actually plays out? No one on either side is going to convince the others to change their position, so let the facts speak for themselves this coming season.
 

I believe that the Bills will have a vastly improved defense to go with an elite offense, get home field in the playoffs, and win the Super Bowl. It was the reason I was calling for them to go all in on defense before and during the draft.  They did so, so let the chips now fall where they may...

 

 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by Mister Defense

[Dr. Who]

52 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

 

The best thing for those on the fact based, evidence based side of this discussion, debate, is that Brandon Beane, the General Manager, who makes all of the decisions, seems to be thinking the same things we are. Extremely reassuring.

 

Great to know that our team's GM has the common sense to do what he did this off season and in the draft, focusing like a laser on the defense. As he has just built the best offense in the NFL and in Bills' history.

 

As part of that  he has made sure that Allen and the Bills finally had a top of the line, dangerous running game, including one of the best offensive lines in football.

 

He did not listen to the irrational folk, that small but vocal minority, who literally freaked out at the mere mention of "COMPLIMENTARY FOOTBALL".

 

Instead, he did the right thing, and the Bills have become one of the most balanced teams in the NFL, the top scoring NFL offense last year, and the best in the history of the franchise, as a result. 

 

Now, he is blocking out the irrational noise once again, and  focusing like a laser on making this a championship defense. That is what great leaders do, the right things for the team or whatever else they are leading. No matter what.  Great to see.

 

Like I said in this OP, it is the last step, (for now at least) as Allen, with an elite offense, may now have a defense that will help him to drive the Bills home. 

 

And Beane has just had one of the best off seasons and drafts the Bills have likely ever had--as it will likely be remembered as a seminal moment in the history of the Bills. We will see, of course.

 

Why not let it rest, and then come back to this in the middle of the season, and the end, to see how it actually plays out? No one on either side is going to convince the others to change their position, so let the facts speak for themselves this coming season.
 

I believe that the Bills will have a vastly improved defense to go with an elite offense, get home field in the playoffs, and win the Super Bowl. It was the reason I was calling for them to go all in on defense before and during the draft.  They did so, so let the chips now fall where they may...

 

 

 

All you have to do is let it rest yourself. There's a lot that plays out in a season. Fortune is fickle. 

I think you're creating a somewhat false dichotomy. Hardly anyone disagrees that the defense needed a major overhaul.

I would add that the scheme needs to add new wrinkles, which I am hopeful is part of the plan.

 

None of that touches on Beane's team building strategy. For those of us who think he doesn't value WR enough, that perdures.

Folks have already pointed out the weakness in the offense that shows up with greater scrutiny. I don't think it's just a matter of chance and adequate players who just happen to not make clutch plays when it matters most. Many are serene, regardless.

 

My bottom line to you: McDermott has had plenty of investment in both the draft and FA on his side of the ball. He needs to show up not just in the wild card round, and once in a while in the divisional round, and hardly at all in the rare conference championship game. You want to preach complementary football? Fantastic. Whatever inevitable growing pains integrating rookies into the system show up early, the wisdom of Beane's plan will be judged by how it plays out late.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

17 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I’d be betting on improvement. I’d just assume lose in the WC as the Divisional round or AFC Championship. If that’s the floor, which I think it is, there is no risk. McDermott has had 5 or 6 straight teams that were Super Bowl caliber. If (insert NFL coaches name here) was the HC over the last 5 years what would have happened? IMO, it wouldn’t have been much worse and potentially better. With Josh Allen, in this division, you’re pretty much guaranteed a home playoff game. That means you have a chance. 
 

To be clear, I understand why they’ve keep him every year. He’s the best that they’ve had in a long time (maybe ever). I’m just saying that I wouldn’t have because I think they need to capitalize on Allen’s prime. It’s more of, “if it hasn’t worked try something else.” I wanted Sean Payton a few years ago. It’s not so much about the “who” though and more about trying something else with Josh still in his 20’s.

 

What's Sean Payton done.  Had one of the best QB's the league at the time, again yes one SB, but sub .500 years too.  So what was different in that one year they won the SB that you feel that could happen more likely than the sub .500 years happening?

[Kirby Jackson]

24 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

What's Sean Payton done.  Had one of the best QB's the league at the time, again yes one SB, but sub .500 years too.  So what was different in that one year they won the SB that you feel that could happen more likely than the sub .500 years happening?

Sean Payton won a Super Bowl. Without the worst call in NFL History (not hyperbole) he likely wins a 2nd. He took an average to bad Denver team to the playoffs. He’s a phenomenal coach. The Bills floor with Josh Allen, in this division, is a home playoff game IMO. If Payton had  been Josh Allen’s coach this entire time they have AT LEAST 1 Super Bowl IMO. They potentially have like 3. That’s obviously opinion but he and Josh Allen would be every bit of what Mahomes and Reid is.

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Sean Payton won a Super Bowl. Without the worst call in NFL History (not hyperbole) he likely wins a 2nd. He took an average to bad Denver team to the playoffs. He’s a phenomenal coach. The Bills floor with Josh Allen, in this division, is a home playoff game IMO. If Payton had  been Josh Allen’s coach this entire time they have AT LEAST 1 Super Bowl IMO. They potentially have like 3. That’s obviously opinion but he and Josh Allen would be every bit of what Mahomes and Reid is.

 

Nobody has lost more games in the playoffs to inferior teams despite a significant Quarterback advantage than Sean Payton though. And I like Payton. He is one of the best offensive minds of his generation and an interesting, demanding, aggressive, win at all costs Head Coach. But he had Drew Brees and lost playoff games to Rex Grossman, Matt Hasselbeck, Case Keenum and Kirk Cousins - even if you exlcude the horrible non-call vs the Rams. 

 

I reject the notion it would have been a guarantee of a Superbowl with him. I think it is equally possible we'd have lost at least one wildcard game to an inferior team in that time. 

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Nobody has lost more games in the playoffs to inferior teams despite a significant Quarterback advantage than Sean Payton though. And I like Payton. He is one of the best offensive minds of his generation and an interesting, demanding, aggressive, win at all costs Head Coach. But he had Drew Brees and lost playoff games to Rex Grossman, Matt Hasselbeck, Case Keenum and Kirk Cousins - even if you exlcude the horrible non-call vs the Rams. 

 

I reject the notion it would have been a guarantee of a Superbowl with him. I think it is equally possible we'd have lost at least one wildcard game to an inferior team in that time. 

I guess that’s where I’d be fine. If you said we could win at least a playoff game every year for 5 years or win a Super Bowl and lose in the WC round twice, I take the Super Bowl 10 times out of 10. I 100% believe Payton would have gotten 1 with Allen. They might have racked up offensive production like the Greatest Show on Turf. If they won a Super Bowl and lost in the WC round to Mason Rudolph the following year, so be it. I’m not concerned about the floor with a healthy Josh. I’m only thinking about the ceiling. 

[GunnerBill]

23 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I guess that’s where I’d be fine. If you said we could win at least a playoff game every year for 5 years or win a Super Bowl and lose in the WC round twice, I take the Super Bowl 10 times out of 10. I 100% believe Payton would have gotten 1 with Allen. They might have racked up offensive production like the Greatest Show on Turf. If they won a Super Bowl and lost in the WC round to Mason Rudolph the following year, so be it. I’m not concerned about the floor with a healthy Josh. I’m only thinking about the ceiling. 

 

Yea I don't think it is close to 100% that he'd have won us a Superbowl. 

[Mikie2times]

20 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I guess that’s where I’d be fine. If you said we could win at least a playoff game every year for 5 years or win a Super Bowl and lose in the WC round twice, I take the Super Bowl 10 times out of 10. I 100% believe Payton would have gotten 1 with Allen. They might have racked up offensive production like the Greatest Show on Turf. If they won a Super Bowl and lost in the WC round to Mason Rudolph the following year, so be it. I’m not concerned about the floor with a healthy Josh. I’m only thinking about the ceiling. 

McD certainly has a high floor. I believe he would take just about any team and make them + in turnover margin very quickly. Which in turn puts you at the brink of a wild card spot most years and that’s without a league MVP at QB. But is McD capable of hunting bigger game? I would say to this point it’s a fairly definitive no. Those first few years the moment WAS too big for him. While I think he’s growing, he’s not a natural big game hunter in my eyes. 

 

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea I don't think it is close to 100% that he'd have won us a Superbowl. 

Maybe, maybe not, but if you had one year to get to the Super Bowl with a top 5 squad who are you choosing to be the HC? I would go Payton. If I had a Bottom 10 squad and needed a wild card birth I would go McD. 

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

 

Maybe, maybe not, but if you had one year to get to the Super Bowl with a top 5 squad who are you choosing to be the HC? I would go Payton. If I had a Bottom 10 squad and needed a wild card birth I would go McD. 

 

I'm not sure Payton's record supports the theory that his post season success was anything more than lightening in a bottle. And given the unlikeliness of that striking twice I'd go McDermott.

[Richard Noggin]

3 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

All you have to do is let it rest yourself. There's a lot that plays out in a season. Fortune is fickle. 

I think you're creating a somewhat false dichotomy. Hardly anyone disagrees that the defense needed a major overhaul.

I would add that the scheme needs to add new wrinkles, which I am hopeful is part of the plan.

 

None of that touches on Beane's team building strategy. For those of us who think he doesn't value WR enough, that perdures.

Folks have already pointed out the weakness in the offense that shows up with greater scrutiny. I don't think it's just a matter of chance and adequate players who just happen to not make clutch plays when it matters most. Many are serene, regardless.

 

My bottom line to you: McDermott has had plenty of investment in both the draft and FA on his side of the ball. He needs to show up not just in the wild card round, and once in a while in the divisional round, and hardly at all in the rare conference championship game. You want to preach complementary football? Fantastic. Whatever inevitable growing pains integrating rookies into the system show up early, the wisdom of Beane's plan will be judged by how it plays out late.

 

Genuinely never encountered this word before. Perdures. And I spent a lot of years teaching college English. So thanks for that.

 

No doubt the Bills offseason WR Train has consistently sputtered in comparison to the loudest/majority fan preferences. Something Beane chose to address in a very public and uncharacteristically bothered way.

 

To be honest, I love his emphasis on a strong and deep OL, and the resulting offensive balance and flexibility (in concert with their best offensive position coach--Kromer--seemingly having increased input since Brady's promotion). But I know so many of us wonder what Allen could do with LEGITIMATELY dangerous receiving targets across the board. Then again, those stacked WR rooms aren't the ones typically winning Super Bowls, so...

[Mikie2times]

39 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I'm not sure Payton's record supports the theory that his post season success was anything more than lightening in a bottle. And given the unlikeliness of that striking twice I'd go McDermott.

 

 

Peyton has 9 post season appearances, A Super Bowl, and two appearances they didn’t win a playoff game in. He was 9-8 in the playoffs in New Orleans. In a better division by a country mile than McD ever has been in. 

 

McD with a better QB has never been to a Super Bowl and has an identical playoff record. So by your exact definition, if McD ever gets one it’s “lightning in a bottle” right?
 

That is unless you want to form your entire argument on a few missed playoff seasons and a few early departures under totally different circumstances. 

50 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

Genuinely never encountered this word before. Perdures. And I spent a lot of years teaching college English. So thanks for that.

 

No doubt the Bills offseason WR Train has consistently sputtered in comparison to the loudest/majority fan preferences. Something Beane chose to address in a very public and uncharacteristically bothered way.

 

To be honest, I love his emphasis on a strong and deep OL, and the resulting offensive balance and flexibility (in concert with their best offensive position coach--Kromer--seemingly having increased input since Brady's promotion). But I know so many of us wonder what Allen could do with LEGITIMATELY dangerous receiving targets across the board. Then again, those stacked WR rooms aren't the ones typically winning Super Bowls, so...

Who was the last Super Bowl winner without 1 all pro level receiving option at TE or WR? Maybe one the last decade?

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

 

Peyton has 9 post season appearances, A Super Bowl, and two appearances they didn’t win a playoff game in. He was 9-8 in the playoffs in New Orleans. In a better division by a country mile than McD ever has been in. 

 

McD with a better QB has never been to a Super Bowl and has an identical playoff record. So by your exact definition, if McD ever gets one it’s “lightning in a bottle” right?
 

That is unless you want to form your entire argument on a few missed playoff seasons and a few early departures under totally different circumstances. 

 

 

So I think we are likely at the stage where McDermott winning one would be a lightening in a bottle everything coming together moment, yep. But he has never lost a playoff game where has an elite QB and lost to a non-elite QB. Payton did that five times. 

Edited 3 hours ago by GunnerBill