Ladd McConkey

[EmotionallyUnstable]

I was thinking about this today: 

 

On one hand we dismiss Ladd as a potential selection for the Bills because of other positional needs and the existence of Khalil Shakir a similar role. 
 

Yet one year earlier the same regime selected Dalton Kincaid….when already heavily invested in the position, while trying to explain that he’s a different kind of player? 
 

You can’t do both. Either Ladd was a mistake, or Dalton was a mistake, but philosophically as a front office if you’re trying to make that arguement and explaination, you can’t be right however you slice it. 

Edited 15 hours ago by EmotionallyUnstable

[BillsFanForever19]

18 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

I was thinking about this today: 

 

On one hand we dismiss Ladd as a potential selection for the Bills because of other positional needs and the existence of Khalil Shakir a similar role. 
 

Yet one year earlier the same regime selected Dalton Kincaid….when already heavily invested in the position, while trying to explain that he’s a different kind of player? 
 

You can’t do both. Either Ladd was a mistake, or Dalton was a mistake, but philosophically as a front office if you’re trying to make that arguement and explaination, you can’t be right however you slice it. 

 

That's part of the equation though. It wasn't just Khalil Shakir. We also had Dalton Kincaid that we Drafted for the Slot the year before, not to mention just signed Curtis Samuel, who was also mainly a Slot. 

 

It was a loaded pass catcher core for the Slot. Did we know Samuel wouldn't produce in his 50/50 role and deal with injuries or that Kincaid would regress? No. Kincaid was coming off a fairly decent Rookie season and Samuel we just signed to a decent deal.

 

All we had was Slots or mainly slots and Mack Hollins. That was it. Mack Hollins couldn't replace both Stefon Diggs and Gabe Davis on the Outside. He was never even signed for the role that he played. Even after Coleman, we still signed MVS (who we later swapped out for Coleman). We had Slot and even 50/50 tweener *completely* covered. We had two complete holes on the Outside.

 

Now if we knew Coleman was going to be as bad as he is (which many did fear pre-Draft), obviously, Drafting a 4th Slot would be better in the long run. But we'd still be taking Shakir and Kincaid off the field to fit him on - with both taking less reps. And we'd have to roll with Hollins, MVS, and Cephus as our Outside guys.

[Saint Doug]

Further proof Beane drafts for need, not best player available. 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

32 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

That's part of the equation though. It wasn't just Khalil Shakir. We also had Dalton Kincaid that we Drafted for the Slot the year before, not to mention just signed Curtis Samuel, who was also mainly a Slot. 

 

It was a loaded pass catcher core for the Slot. Did we know Samuel wouldn't produce in his 50/50 role and deal with injuries or that Kincaid would regress? No. Kincaid was coming off a fairly decent Rookie season and Samuel we just signed to a decent deal.

 

All we had was Slots or mainly slots and Mack Hollins. That was it. Mack Hollins couldn't replace both Stefon Diggs and Gabe Davis on the Outside. He was never even signed for the role that he played. Even after Coleman, we still signed MVS (who we later swapped out for Coleman). We had Slot and even 50/50 tweener *completely* covered. We had two complete holes on the Outside.

 

Now if we knew Coleman was going to be as bad as he is (which many did fear pre-Draft), obviously, Drafting a 4th Slot would be better in the long run. But we'd still be taking Shakir and Kincaid off the field to fit him on - with both taking less reps. And we'd have to roll with Hollins, MVS, and Cephus as our Outside guys.

I think these are fair points and yet again point to the fact BBB is forced into selecting need vs talent, largely due to his own roster construction, especially in the early rounds. 
 

I think it’s unfair to categorize Kincaid as a slot, as you referenced. He does a lot of work in the MOF but is not going to be playing the same Z or H role that a slot wr would be. 

 

I am not here to say that Ladd SHOULD have been the pick over Coleman. No one could have forecasted how things have turned out…I am simply responding to the retort i often here for why Ladd wasn’t a consideration and it just doesn’t seem to be a valid excuse to me give the fact that Beane has repeatedly doubled down on positions at time (Groot/Basham, Walker/Sanders,) in early rounds while paying guys who are already on the roster being paid at the same position. 

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

I was thinking about this today: 

 

On one hand we dismiss Ladd as a potential selection for the Bills because of other positional needs and the existence of Khalil Shakir a similar role. 
 

Yet one year earlier the same regime selected Dalton Kincaid….when already heavily invested in the position, while trying to explain that he’s a different kind of player? 
 

You can’t do both. Either Ladd was a mistake, or Dalton was a mistake, but philosophically as a front office if you’re trying to make that arguement and explaination, you can’t be right however you slice it. 

Completely agree...

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

That's part of the equation though. It wasn't just Khalil Shakir. We also had Dalton Kincaid that we Drafted for the Slot the year before, not to mention just signed Curtis Samuel, who was also mainly a Slot. 

 

It was a loaded pass catcher core for the Slot. Did we know Samuel wouldn't produce in his 50/50 role and deal with injuries or that Kincaid would regress? No. Kincaid was coming off a fairly decent Rookie season and Samuel we just signed to a decent deal.

 

All we had was Slots or mainly slots and Mack Hollins. That was it. Mack Hollins couldn't replace both Stefon Diggs and Gabe Davis on the Outside. He was never even signed for the role that he played. Even after Coleman, we still signed MVS (who we later swapped out for Coleman). We had Slot and even 50/50 tweener *completely* covered. We had two complete holes on the Outside.

 

Now if we knew Coleman was going to be as bad as he is (which many did fear pre-Draft), obviously, Drafting a 4th Slot would be better in the long run. But we'd still be taking Shakir and Kincaid off the field to fit him on - with both taking less reps. And we'd have to roll with Hollins, MVS, and Cephus as our Outside guys.

Signing Samuel was definitely a bad idea..it also shows the lack of long term thinking by this Bills Brass. 

Unfortunately, the guys they brought in for the perimeter have not panned out.  That is on the coaching staff

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

I was thinking about this today: 

 

On one hand we dismiss Ladd as a potential selection for the Bills because of other positional needs and the existence of Khalil Shakir a similar role. 
 

Yet one year earlier the same regime selected Dalton Kincaid….when already heavily invested in the position, while trying to explain that he’s a different kind of player? 
 

You can’t do both. Either Ladd was a mistake, or Dalton was a mistake, but philosophically as a front office if you’re trying to make that arguement and explaination, you can’t be right however you slice it. 

 

I was not in love with the Dalton pick for the same reason I wouldn't have loved the Ladd pick. Can you ever have too many good pass catchers? No. But the Bills had a clear and obvious need for a guy who could play on the boundary and win vertically. And in three offseasons their attempts to address that need have been Mack Hollins, Keon Coleman and Josh Palmer. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

12 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

I was thinking about this today: 

 

On one hand we dismiss Ladd as a potential selection for the Bills because of other positional needs and the existence of Khalil Shakir a similar role. 
 

Yet one year earlier the same regime selected Dalton Kincaid….when already heavily invested in the position, while trying to explain that he’s a different kind of player? 
 

You can’t do both. Either Ladd was a mistake, or Dalton was a mistake, but philosophically as a front office if you’re trying to make that arguement and explaination, you can’t be right however you slice it. 

People get too caught up in positions and having only one of a certain thing. NFL offenses are very complex. To me, a football player is a football player. Keon Coleman to me just seemed like a reached/forced EJ Manuel type of pick. And the whole “looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane” thing. Garbage pick. Maybe Beane can get a conditional 6th for him next offseason if he’s lucky. 😆