phypon Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 7 minutes ago, daz28 said: You had all of this right up until you said this part, "Remember how the left and the feminists told us all how hard it is being a stay at home mom?". Replace the word mom with parent, and you're right back on track. Also, you got feminism a bit backwards: Feminism- the belief in social, economic, and political equality of the sexes. Now the left will swoop in and tell us "it's hard and a full time job being a stay at home mom/dad!". ---Do you disagree with this statement? You really think it's playing video games and watching cartoons? How hard do you think kicking the football is???? You clearly agree with what I said and share the same sentiment. We're on the same page here. No, I know it's not about playing video games and watching cartoons, that was a Bill Burr reference to a comedy show of his. Why the hate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 54 minutes ago, JDHillFan said: Both of these hateful bigots should be banned for life! This is where it all goes south FOR BOTH SIDES. Andy and Pat are both right that there are diverse opinions, and they should be respected as free speech. The problem is the far right AND left get happy when it goes south for the guy/company whose opinion they don't like costs them publicly or financially. Now, that comes with the caveat that a company can and should be able to make the appropriate decisions on how their employees stated opinions may effect their overall business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phypon Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 6 minutes ago, daz28 said: This is where it all goes south FOR BOTH SIDES. Andy and Pat are both right that there are diverse opinions, and they should be respected as free speech. The problem is the far right AND left get happy when it goes south for the guy/company whose opinion they don't like costs them publicly or financially. Now, that comes with the caveat that a company can and should be able to make the appropriate decisions on how their employees stated opinions may effect their overall business. The Chiefs definitely need to cut Butker at this point. F that guy! (Beane, please sign Butker as soon as he's cut) 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 (edited) 9 minutes ago, phypon said: The Chiefs definitely need to cut Butker at this point. F that guy! (Beane, please sign Butker as soon as he's cut) I know you're being facetious, but I just wish BOTH sides would understand that he shouldn't be cut for thinking it's 1950, OR if he wants to wear a rainbow patch on his jersey. We have open active threads on this very forum of people disparaging the LGBTQ community, with posters who post bigoted crap, and get mad when their opinions/concerns are openly stated. These same people are STANDING WITH BUTKER, when it comes to him spreading his religious beliefs. It's straight hypocrisy AND bigotry. Edited May 22 by daz28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 2 hours ago, daz28 said: I posted it because some people seem to forget what those duties are, so while he didn't implicitly state each of them, by saying homemaker, he certainly meant all of those duties. Did you think he didn’t know what he was saying? That he was trying to sneak past things like scheduling family events, cleaning up kitchen spills, wiping snotty noses, organizing the household? I am fortunate—my wife is amazing at all that….and takes great pride in doing so. I really don’t think he was trying to create a Rubik’s Cube of confusion here. I think it’s clear where he and his wife stand on all this, and where lots of other folks stand as well. Personally, the only part I thought was silly and intolerant was the part about deadly sin and pride. The rest appeals to some, not to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 3 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: Did you think he didn’t know what he was saying? That he was trying to sneak past things like scheduling family events, cleaning up kitchen spills, wiping snotty noses, organizing the household? I am fortunate—my wife is amazing at all that….and takes great pride in doing so. I really don’t think he was trying to create a Rubik’s Cube of confusion here. I think it’s clear where he and his wife stand on all this, and where lots of other folks stand as well. Personally, the only part I thought was silly and intolerant was the part about deadly sin and pride. The rest appeals to some, not to others. I know he knew what he was saying, but TONS of people were saying he didn't say keep women in the kitchen doing laundry, and cleaning house, because he didn't list those duties. Those duties are implied, because that's literally the job description. Like I said originally, there's too much huh bub about this, but the hypocrisy of those supporting his opinions, while being against players speaking about other causes bothers me. I disagree with him, because it's not 1950 anymore, and that's a good thing for women, because they're more self-empowered now. It's also a slap in the face to families that have stay at home dads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 11 minutes ago, daz28 said: I know he knew what he was saying, but TONS of people were saying he didn't say keep women in the kitchen doing laundry, and cleaning house, because he didn't list those duties. Those duties are implied, because that's literally the job description. Like I said originally, there's too much huh bub about this, but the hypocrisy of those supporting his opinions, while being against players speaking about other causes bothers me. I disagree with him, because it's not 1950 anymore, and that's a good thing for women, because they're more self-empowered now. It's also a slap in the face to families that have stay at home dads. Look, there’s indeed too much hubbub about this, but people are saying he didn’t say “keep women in the kitchen, doing laundry, cleaning house” because he did not say those things. He obviously could have, but he clearly didn’t. As for progress made since the 1950s, we’ll, I think you’re being disrespectful to those families who follow a more traditional model, but we can def agree their has been tremendous progress made on equality since the 1950s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: As for progress made since the 1950s, we’ll, I think you’re being disrespectful to those families who follow a more traditional model, but we can def agree their has been tremendous progress made on equality since the 1950s. I have no issue with anyone following a traditional role or any other role. It's just that role, which kept women down then, is even more dangerous for them now. Being left with a few children is a sentence to life on social services for the stuck mothers. The current model of college, career, family is what works best now. Butker is a 28 years old rich kid(thanks some to his mother). He has no notion of the poverty that women who may take his advice could go through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 9 hours ago, daz28 said: I have no issue with anyone following a traditional role or any other role. It's just that role, which kept women down then, is even more dangerous for them now. Being left with a few children is a sentence to life on social services for the stuck mothers. The current model of college, career, family is what works best now. Butker is a 28 years old rich kid(thanks some to his mother). He has no notion of the poverty that women who may take his advice could go through. Living a quality life, living traditional values, raising children and shaping the world “kept women down”? That’s complete bulls#it. It is not the only way, and not everyone chose that path, but your premise is wrong. Education is important, of course, but a strong argument is made these days that our system is flawed, extraordinarily expensive, and saddles people (women included) with unreasonable debt that crushes them. There are alternatives to a traditional education, and college is not for everyone. Not every person wants a family. Open your mind for goodness sake. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 3 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: Living a quality life, living traditional values, raising children and shaping the world “kept women down”? That’s complete bulls#it. It is not the only way, and not everyone chose that path, but your premise is wrong. Education is important, of course, but a strong argument is made these days that our system is flawed, extraordinarily expensive, and saddles people (women included) with unreasonable debt that crushes them. There are alternatives to a traditional education, and college is not for everyone. Not every person wants a family. Open your mind for goodness sake. Yeah, women were shaping a world, in which they were fighting for equality? You don't think lots of women were stuck in bad situations, because being a single mother with no education was a really bad prospect? Ever watch 'Alice' or 'All in the Family', because I lived through it personally and around it? My mind is open, and it allows me to see and understand these things. Either you didn't live it, or your eyes are/were wide shut. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 3 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: Living a quality life, living traditional values, raising children and shaping the world “kept women down”? That’s complete bulls#it. It is not the only way, and not everyone chose that path, but your premise is wrong. Education is important, of course, but a strong argument is made these days that our system is flawed, extraordinarily expensive, and saddles people (women included) with unreasonable debt that crushes them. There are alternatives to a traditional education, and college is not for everyone. Not every person wants a family. Open your mind for goodness sake. I don't think it's capable of going off script. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 11 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said: I don't think it's capable of going off script. Thanks for describing conservatism to a T. Edith Bunker had it good(watching cartoons and playing video games), and Alice Hyatt should have married a safer trucker, or found some other guy to be dependent upon, then she wouldn't have had to be bullied by Al Sharples, right? Conservative revisionist history is always so spot on. LOL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDHillFan Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 1 minute ago, daz28 said: Thanks for describing conservatism to a T. Edith Bunker had it good(watching cartoons and playing video games), and Alice Hyatt should have married a safer trucker, or found some other guy to be dependent upon, then she wouldn't have had to be bullied by Al Sharples, right? Conservative revisionist history is always so spot on. LOL I smelled bullsh*t with the All in the Family routine. Video games? Good God, man. Truly embarrassing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Callahan Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 5 minutes ago, JDHillFan said: I smelled bullsh*t with the All in the Family routine. Video games? Good God, man. Truly embarrassing. Didn't do a good job with the backstory. Is it still rambling about butkers wife? Does he know she runs their company? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 37 minutes ago, Tommy Callahan said: I don't think it's capable of going off script. Daz is engaged and full of vim and vigor. I respect that on some level, but his takes often reflect the closed mindset of a pre-suffrage man about town. It’s just a different type of closed/mindedness. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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leh-nerd skin-erd Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 On 5/23/2024 at 11:59 AM, daz28 said: Yeah, women were shaping a world, in which they were fighting for equality? You don't think lots of women were stuck in bad situations, because being a single mother with no education was a really bad prospect? Ever watch 'Alice' or 'All in the Family', because I lived through it personally and around it? My mind is open, and it allows me to see and understand these things. Either you didn't live it, or your eyes are/were wide shut. The fight for equality and happiness in a traditional marriage were not mutually exclusive. Too, let’s not forget that there were other battles for equality ongoing as women struggled for their rights. Wage, working conditions, poverty etc. I didn’t watch “Alice”, never really cared for “All in the Family”. I did watch “Welcome Back Kotter” but tried to remember the Sweathogs weren’t actually sweathogs. It sounds like your experience was different than mine. My mother is college educated, stay at home but worked part time as her family grew. My Dad was a WW2 vet at 17, came home and went to work. Money was not abundant, love was. We were not alone in that regard, my eyes were open the whole time, though through experience I realized that was not the way fir everyone. I understand that every scenario must be judged by the experiences of the family. Yes, many women were stuck in very difficult, untenable and tragic situations. We agree on that. I have never considered abuse/subjugation a traditional value, but let’s not pretend that sort of thing does not occur in whatever version of family we look at today. Likewise, there are stories of love, happiness and success in whatever version of family we see today that do follow traditional values. We’ve made great progress, there’s so much more to do, but there is a place in it for people who desire a traditional relationship. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDHillFan Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 3 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: The fight for equality and happiness in a traditional marriage were not mutually exclusive. Too, let’s not forget that there were other battles for equality ongoing as women struggled for their rights. Wage, working conditions, poverty etc. I didn’t watch “Alice”, never really cared for “All in the Family”. I did watch “Welcome Back Kotter” but tried to remember the Sweathogs weren’t actually sweathogs. It sounds like your experience was different than mine. My mother is college educated, stay at home but worked part time as her family grew. My Dad was a WW2 vet at 17, came home and went to work. Money was not abundant, love was. We were not alone in that regard, my eyes were open the whole time, though through experience I realized that was not the way fir everyone. I understand that every scenario must be judged by the experiences of the family. Yes, many women were stuck in very difficult, untenable and tragic situations. We agree on that. I have never considered abuse/subjugation a traditional value, but let’s not pretend that sort of thing does not occur in whatever version of family we look at today. Likewise, there are stories of love, happiness and success in whatever version of family we see today that do follow traditional values. We’ve made great progress, there’s so much more to do, but there is a place in it for people who desire a traditional relationship. Oh my gosh, your poor mother! Indentured servitude! “My mother is college educated, stay at home but worked part time as her family grew.” Change mother to wife and that’s the story of my family. It wasn’t because of anything I did, said, or decreed. Together we thought it the best way to raise a couple kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted May 25 Share Posted May 25 4 hours ago, JDHillFan said: Oh my gosh, your poor mother! Indentured servitude! “My mother is college educated, stay at home but worked part time as her family grew.” Change mother to wife and that’s the story of my family. It wasn’t because of anything I did, said, or decreed. Together we thought it the best way to raise a couple kids. I’d be willing to bet your mother would reject the notion she was a victim in any way shape form. I also recognize how fortunate we were. I never made the point with @daz28, but were my father here today, he would tell you my homemaker mother was the backbone of our family, and that had little to do with what her occupation. Great to hear on you and your wife—also likely a very strong person to chart that path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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