jkeerie Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: Neither do I. But I don't think that has any real bearing on whether or not the way this FO hands out deals is smart. As I recall, shortly thereafter Jalen Ramsey got his extension etc. Tre's contract was actually quite the bargain. Additionally...I don't think trading Tre would have resulted in the huge draft haul KC got from Miami. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeavercreekBillsFan Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 On 2/28/2024 at 5:39 PM, mjt328 said: If the ball doesn't bounce off Darrel Luter's foot during the punt return, the Chiefs do not win the Super Bowl. If Zay Flowers stretches one more inch before fumbling into the endzone, the Chiefs do not win the AFC. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to diminish the Chiefs accomplishment. They are a great team and deserve the Lombardi. But neither of those plays had anything to do with superior roster/cap management over the rest of the NFL. The Chiefs front office should get credit for putting together a roster consistently good enough to compete for the Super Bowl every year. That isn't easy. But so should the Buffalo Bills, 49ers, Ravens, etc. The difference between those teams is literally 1-2 lucky plays. This x1,000. Add in Jalen Hurts simply dropping the ball and it bouncing straight up to Bolton for him to run it in during the other SB. They also had horrible OTs that led the league in penalties all year only to not ever get called for holding in the playoffs and especially the SB when they were holding Bosa all night. Things that would sink the other 31 teams don’t bite them and they get every bounce. Not every move they make is perfect. The Ravens and 49ers have better rosters. The chiefs roster is better than ours though. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90sBills Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 31 minutes ago, jkeerie said: As I recall, shortly thereafter Jalen Ramsey got his extension etc. Tre's contract was actually quite the bargain. Additionally...I don't think trading Tre would have resulted in the huge draft haul KC got from Miami. It would not. But that’s really not the point. It’s the philosophy of paying top end $ for your guys. Bills have done that to their detriment because we don’t have a championship to show for it. Trading Hill did yield a bounty for KC and they converted that by hitting on their picks. But you don’t have to get that kind of haul if your strategy is to sparingly pay high price contracts while filling your roster with young talents. KC is operating on that philosophy. Bills aren’t. That’s where I think the main difference is. Then when KC hit on their picks like they have recently it makes it hard to swallow as Bills fans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 51 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Neither do I. But I don't think that has any real bearing on whether or not the way this FO hands out deals is smart. This is where the family mindset hurts our team. I suspect Beane will feel like he owes players like White and Morse something instead of making the right decision and moving on. Hopefully he proves me wrong. Up to this point he has been way too much of a pushover when it comes to overpaid underperforming players. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 10 minutes ago, HappyDays said: This is where the family mindset hurts our team. I suspect Beane will feel like he owes players like White and Morse something instead of making the right decision and moving on. Hopefully he proves me wrong. Up to this point he has been way too much of a pushover when it comes to overpaid underperforming players. I don't think Morse is underperforming... He's a really good athletic center He has weaknesses like most players but he's really solid.. They honestly probably give Bates the first shot after Morse retires 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 8 minutes ago, 90sBills said: It would not. But that’s really not the point. It’s the philosophy of paying top end $ for your guys. Bills have done that to their detriment because we don’t have a championship to show for it. Trading Hill did yield a bounty for KC and they converted that by hitting on their picks. But you don’t have to get that kind of haul if your strategy is to sparingly pay high price contracts while filling your roster with young talents. KC is operating on that philosophy. Bills aren’t. That’s where I think the main difference is. Then when KC hit on their picks like they have recently it makes it hard to swallow as Bills fans. I don't think Beane has made a habit of over-paying players...with the exception of Knox, which I still don't understand. The contracts for the most part are fair market value. If the idea is to draft and develop your own players, then second contracts are to be expected. Oliver's deal was a bargain as was Tre's ultimately. We let Edmunds walk. The free agent contracts...namely Von's was a stab at signing a difference maker that could get the Bills over the hump. It looked like it would until the Detroit game. So you definitely could question the free agent contracts and extending aging players. That is not a sustainable strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 On 2/28/2024 at 4:39 PM, mjt328 said: Outside of Tyreek Hill, there aren't really any great examples of the Chiefs being willing to move on from their top players. It was really a one-time thing, because they desperately needed to upgrade the O-Line and simply couldn't afford to keep him One time except for Alex Smith, Juju, Charvarious Ward, Tyrann Matthieu, Frank Clark, Anthony Hitchens, Marcus Peters, Dee Ford, Mitch Morse, Juan Thornhill… That team had 3 remaining starters from the 2019 Super Bowl team. Their entire ethos revolves around their willingness to churn top players. Mahomes is untouchable. Literally everyone else is a cog in the wheel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 46 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: I don't think Morse is underperforming... He's a really good athletic center Underperforming isn't the right word for him. But I am confident saying he is not worth his cap hit this year. Not when legitimate upgrades at WR and DE can be had in free agency. But it would require Beane make a ruthless decision with a player that has done everything right since he got here. I don't know if he has it in him, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 9 minutes ago, Billl said: One time except for Alex Smith, Juju, Charvarious Ward, Tyrann Matthieu, Frank Clark, Anthony Hitchens, Marcus Peters, Dee Ford, Mitch Morse, Juan Thornhill… That team had 3 remaining starters from the 2019 Super Bowl team. Their entire ethos revolves around their willingness to churn top players. Mahomes is untouchable. Literally everyone else is a cog in the wheel. Not all of the players you cited were draft picks of KC and all were easily replaced. I do agree that it has been free agency signings that have hurt the Bills the most cap-wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 2 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Underperforming isn't the right word for him. But I am confident saying he is not worth his cap hit this year. Not when legitimate upgrades at WR and DE can be had in free agency. But it would require Beane make a ruthless decision with a player that has done everything right since he got here. I don't know if he has it in him, unfortunately. I love Morse. I also love Hyde, Tre & Poyer. But there just comes a time. I think Beane has been a great GM to this point - but this is that time in a franchise's development that he has to make those tough decisions. I'm really curious to see how it goes. I think he might surprise us. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billl Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 1 hour ago, jkeerie said: Not all of the players you cited were draft picks of KC and all were easily replaced. What does that even mean? Kansas City’s good players are somehow easier to replace? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 2 minutes ago, Billl said: What does that even mean? Kansas City’s good players are somehow easier to replace? No. It means that KC moved on from players that weren't worth hanging onto at high salaries and that were easily replaceable despite playing in a SB. The argument has been that KC is somehow brilliant in their team management when in truth their core group that has kept them on top has been small: Mahomes, Kelce, Jones, and I would for now add Butker. Those players are the big difference makers. Tyreek was...but he was demanding too much to keep, especially knowing they would need to pay those dollars to Jones. So with the draft picks they got for Tyreek, they rebuilt their defense supplementing with players on one year deals. By comparison, the Bills initially built through free agency...Hyde, Poyer, Philips, Settle, Morse, etc. Some of those players have made a difference but now have gotten older and injured such that they no longer make a difference. They did draft well in Allen, Tre, Milano, Dion, etc and added Diggs through free agency to help develop Josh. Beane has switched to one year deals in free agency and now with ten draft picks, has to hit on the majority to lower the cap for the foreseeable future. Beane has not been perfect. However he and McD have resurrected a team from the ashes and made them competitive in relatively short order. KC had a good team in place before Mahomes got there. They had a headstart on the Bills. The Von Miller contract has set us back, but the silver lining is that it will force the Bills to rely on their draft class sooner rather than later. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) On 2/29/2024 at 8:37 PM, HappyDays said: Underperforming isn't the right word for him. But I am confident saying he is not worth his cap hit this year. Not when legitimate upgrades at WR and DE can be had in free agency. But it would require Beane make a ruthless decision with a player that has done everything right since he got here. I don't know if he has it in him, unfortunately. On 2/29/2024 at 8:42 PM, Success said: I love Morse. I also love Hyde, Tre & Poyer. But there just comes a time. I think Beane has been a great GM to this point - but this is that time in a franchise's development that he has to make those tough decisions. I'm really curious to see how it goes. I think he might surprise us. I think Morse has More than Hyde or poyer left As Jason Kelce has said a bunch... Physically, it's the easiest line position to play... Mentally it's the toughest Morse is very smart... He has been banged up due to injuries... But he's athletically in the upper tier of centers Look at some of his pulling as a center... A guard pulling like that would be amazing... He's doing it from the center position He's definitely got a very good gift Edited March 3 by Buffalo716 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmotionallyUnstable Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 15 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: I think Morse has More than Hyde or poyer left As Jason Kelce has said a bunch... Physically, it's the easiest line position to play... Mentally it's the toughest Morse is very smart... He has been banged up due to injuries... But he's athletically in the upper tier of centers Look at some of his pulling as a center... A guard pulling like that would be amazing... He's doing it from the center position He's definitely got a very good gift I do think Morse can still play, but I’m leaning towards agreeing with @HappyDays regarding his contract worth. Although athletic, you do see him starting to get beat up the gut by some of the more physically dominating DTs. He does not have the pure strength or size to withstand it (to be fair, not many at the position do). Throw in his injury history (concussions) and I am just not sure that the benefit you get from Morse would be worth the potential savings (8.5mil) you could get by using Bates at C and bringing in another player or two for that kind of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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