Chilly Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Dear Conservatives, Do you really believe that outlawing abortions will solve the abortion problem? Thanks, Bluefire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Dear Conservatives,Do you really believe that outlawing abortions will solve the abortion problem? Thanks, Bluefire 354889[/snapback] Dear Liberals, Do you really believe that outlawing guns will solve the gun violence problem? Well, whaddaya know...it works both ways... It's not like either side of the aisle is immune from the "let's stick our heads in the sand and hope it goes away" attitude towards issues. The only real difference is the windmills at which they wish to tilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted June 10, 2005 Author Share Posted June 10, 2005 Dear Liberals, Do you really believe that outlawing guns will solve the gun violence problem? Well, whaddaya know...it works both ways... It's not like either side of the aisle is immune from the "let's stick our heads in the sand and hope it goes away" attitude towards issues. The only real difference is the windmills at which they wish to tilt. 354905[/snapback] I'm probably the only liberal around (I've succumbed to the fact that over the past 4 years I've gone from Conservative to Liberal) that thinks outlawing guns is a bad idea. Stricter Gun Control good (why the hell can't we insert low-cost computer ID chips into bullets nowadays so that when someone gets shot, we at least have evidence of who the hell bought the bullet), taking Guns away completely bad. Did I mention that I realized I truely am a Liberal? God I hate that word. Anyway, the reason why I mentioned the abortion thing is I was doing some reading on a ban on abortion, and I wanted to know the conservative plan for unsafe abortions. I'm not completely against an abortion ban persay, I would just like to see the money spent to reduce abortions instead of enforcing laws to ban it. Seems like money better spent to me. (ps - respond to that damn PM I sent you!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Dear Liberals, Do you really believe that outlawing guns will solve the gun violence problem? Well, whaddaya know...it works both ways... It's not like either side of the aisle is immune from the "let's stick our heads in the sand and hope it goes away" attitude towards issues. The only real difference is the windmills at which they wish to tilt. 354905[/snapback] I agree with you. And not that I agree with this either, but... Yet, there is a big difference between the gun issue and abortion issue. How easy is it to kill your fetus compared to gun manufacturing being outlawed and having to seek said weapons? If nobody is manufacturing them, It doesn't wipe them out but, dries up a vast majority of them... Maintaining, obtaining parts to keep them working is another story? You did mean manufacturing when you said outlaw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 I agree with you. And not that I agree with this either, but... Yet, there is a big difference between the gun issue and abortion issue. How easy is it to kill your fetus compared to gun manufacturing being outlawed and having to seek said weapons? If nobody is manufacturing them, It doesn't wipe them out but, dries up a vast majority of them... Maintaining, obtaining parts to keep them working is another story? You did mean manufacturing when you said outlaw? 354918[/snapback] I was thinking manufacturing...but that wasn't my point anyway. My point was that the problems with gun violence/abortion are far beyond the issues of the availability of guns/abortions...but in each case, the "anti-" party's solution is the same: treat the symptom by outlawing guns/abortion, and pretend that it will, through some sympathetic voodoo magic, cure the actual problem (crime/unwanted pregnancies). And then each party pretends that they're somehow the better party for actually caring about solving the problem and portarys the other as some slavering bloodlustful group of thoughtless savages...when the truth is, neither one can analyse an issue beyond the most blatant surface symptoms (guns/abortions). It wasn't my intent to equate guns to abortions. It WAS my intent to show, very concisely and clearly, that each party pulls the exact same bull sh--. They just choose different issues to pull it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Stricter Gun Control good (why the hell can't we insert low-cost computer ID chips into bullets nowadays so that when someone gets shot, we at least have evidence of who the hell bought the bullet), taking Guns away completely bad. 354916[/snapback] Wow, that's blindingly stupid. There are currently 20,000 gun laws on the books but that's not enough for you. Now you're advocating using some kind of cheap technology that doesn't exist on a platform that isn't anywhere near designed for that kind of thing. Forgetting altogether that if it's a cheap computer chip it's also easily hacked. The problem isn't laws, it's enforcement. Try doing that once in awhile instead of sending cops into bars to look for ashtrays. Gun "control" isn't about guns. It's about control and every law that gets passed doesn't do anything except make good citizens into criminals because it's virtually impossible to keep up to date. Criminals don't care about laws and law enforcement (especially at the federal level) is far too selective on what they enforce. I'm sure having highly trained guys sit on the side of the road picking out people who aren't wearing seatbelts is alot more important than catching criminals who commit violent crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Wow, that's blindingly stupid. There are currently 20,000 gun laws on the books but that's not enough for you. Now you're advocating using some kind of cheap technology that doesn't exist on a platform that isn't anywhere near designed for that kind of thing. Forgetting altogether that if it's a cheap computer chip it's also easily hacked. 354928[/snapback] And the technical issues: tiny computer chips embedded in hunks of metal that undergo severe shocks and accellerations. Tiny computer chips do not handle those kinds of stresses all that well. Want to embed chips in bullets. Go ahead...but to disable the chips, all you're going to have to do is fire the damned bullets, which kind of defeats the purpose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 And the technical issues: tiny computer chips embedded in hunks of metal that undergo severe shocks and accellerations. Tiny computer chips do not handle those kinds of stresses all that well. Want to embed chips in bullets. Go ahead...but to disable the chips, all you're going to have to do is fire the damned bullets, which kind of defeats the purpose... 354929[/snapback] We actually have some, but maybe the method to the madness is it would make each bullet cost $143,176.78 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted June 10, 2005 Author Share Posted June 10, 2005 Wow, that's blindingly stupid. There are currently 20,000 gun laws on the books but that's not enough for you. Now you're advocating using some kind of cheap technology that doesn't exist on a platform that isn't anywhere near designed for that kind of thing. Forgetting altogether that if it's a cheap computer chip it's also easily hacked. In this world of DRM being built into CPU hardware I'm sure we could figure out a way to do it within the next decade. The problem isn't laws, it's enforcement. Try doing that once in awhile instead of sending cops into bars to look for ashtrays. Gun "control" isn't about guns. It's about control and every law that gets passed doesn't do anything except make good citizens into criminals because it's virtually impossible to keep up to date. Criminals don't care about laws and law enforcement (especially at the federal level) is far too selective on what they enforce. I'm sure having highly trained guys sit on the side of the road picking out people who aren't wearing seatbelts is alot more important than catching criminals who commit violent crimes. 354928[/snapback] The weird part is I agree with you - there are too many laws on guns and its far too restrictive. I'm not a big fan myself of owning guns. I have many friends who are. Its mighty cool to hold one, and it certaintly makes you feel powerful. I also have gone shooting with them. I have no problems if other people want to own a gun. Own all the guns that you want. We need a solution however to track crimes much better then we have right now. Society is never going to be able to stop murdering with just a gun ban. If someone is that psychotic to begin with here in the US, they'll find a way to do it - Guns, Knife, Bomb, whatever. The issue is locking up the people that do it so that they aren't part of society anymore. The best way to do this is to create a tracking system, one that sure as hell is a lot better then what we have right now. Track the damn guns and bullets, I'm sure we can figure out a way to do that securely with technology, and make it easier for our police force to enforce, catch, and prosecute violent criminals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted June 10, 2005 Author Share Posted June 10, 2005 And the technical issues: tiny computer chips embedded in hunks of metal that undergo severe shocks and accellerations. Tiny computer chips do not handle those kinds of stresses all that well. Want to embed chips in bullets. Go ahead...but to disable the chips, all you're going to have to do is fire the damned bullets, which kind of defeats the purpose... 354929[/snapback] Forgive me, for half my mind is currently being used for Captain Morgan's evil deeds. We actually have some, but maybe the method to the madness is it would make each bullet cost $143,176.78 354932[/snapback] Technology's costs and prices drop relatively fast nowadays. But I will admit, I of course thought about a chip first because my damn job is doing computer support (course I guess that means I should realize that a chip can't be made to do that, quite the conundrum!). Basically, I'd like to see a system to track criminals rather then a system outlawing guns - make the bullets trackable somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 We actually have some, but maybe the method to the madness is it would make each bullet cost $143,176.78 354932[/snapback] Which itself shows just how simple it's not. You don't just etch a silicon chip like you would a $2 transistor and stick it in a bullet. You design a whole new plant to implement a whole new process to make a chip that costs as much as a house...and probably still breaks 30% of the time anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Forgive me, for half my mind is currently being used for Captain Morgan's evil deeds.Technology's costs and prices drop relatively fast nowadays. But I will admit, I of course thought about a chip first because my damn job is doing computer support (course I guess that means I should realize that a chip can't be made to do that, quite the conundrum!). Basically, I'd like to see a system to track criminals rather then a system outlawing guns - make the bullets trackable somehow. 354935[/snapback] Is there ANYONE not doing computer support? I'm getting frightened again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Which itself shows just how simple it's not. You don't just etch a silicon chip like you would a $2 transistor and stick it in a bullet. You design a whole new plant to implement a whole new process to make a chip that costs as much as a house...and probably still breaks 30% of the time anyway... 354937[/snapback] WTF knows or cares? I just work on where they're going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted June 10, 2005 Author Share Posted June 10, 2005 Is there ANYONE not doing computer support? I'm getting frightened again... 354938[/snapback] Hahaha. Actually, the reason why I'm doing it is because I'm still at UT Austin. They had a few openings at the ITS Helpdesk here, and I used to be a Comp Sci major before realizing I really wanted to do Political Science. I had the qualifications as in high school I took a class that was basically learning how to support computers and then doing it for the school (hey, it was a helluva lot better then some stupid "elective" that wasn't interesting). I just started 3 weeks ago. Its a great job. I'm only taking one class this summer on political parties in the US and the World, but the class is in the same damn building I work in. Convenient, and they schedule around my classes. I do have a funny story though. Someone called up the other day and, I swear to god, the phone call went like this: "Thank you for calling the ITS Helpdesk, can I have your UT EID please?" *gives UT EID* "How can I help you today?" "Uh yeah I was drunk last night and pissed on my resnet port" Resnet port is the ethernet port we put in every dorm room so people can use the internet from the dorms. We had to send a guy out to replace the wiring in it. WTF knows or cares? I just work on where they're going. 354939[/snapback] What do you actually do anyway? I've heard rumors that you live in Washington and know a lot of the people there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 What do you actually do anyway? I've heard rumors that you live in Washington and know a lot of the people there. 354941[/snapback] Don't listen to a word he says. He's just a gardener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF in Indiana Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 ID chips in bullets... If anybody needs me I'll be in the backyard shooting at my propane tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNRed Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Dear Conservatives,Do you really believe that outlawing abortions will solve the abortion problem? Thanks, Bluefire 354889[/snapback] No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Don't listen to a word he says. He's just a gardener. 354943[/snapback] I don't do anything....but I get paid for it anyway. Just ask Canal Guy in Illinois. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted June 10, 2005 Author Share Posted June 10, 2005 I don't do anything....but I get paid for it anyway. Just ask Canal Guy in Illinois. 354949[/snapback] So you're that guy from Office Space who is good with dealing with customers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 And, I know nothing about gardening. I can kill a plastic fern. Is this a GREAT country? Or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted June 10, 2005 Author Share Posted June 10, 2005 And, I know nothing about gardening. I can kill a plastic fern. Is this a GREAT country? Or what? 354951[/snapback] And I can kill a fetus (trying to somehow get it back to the topic at hand). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheRocks Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 I agree with you. And not that I agree with this either, but... Yet, there is a big difference between the gun issue and abortion issue. How easy is it to kill your fetus compared to gun manufacturing being outlawed and having to seek said weapons? If nobody is manufacturing them, It doesn't wipe them out but, dries up a vast majority of them... Maintaining, obtaining parts to keep them working is another story? You did mean manufacturing when you said outlaw? 354918[/snapback] this might sound silly, but...if women who didn't want children would stop manufacturing them...it would help put a dent in the abortion problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheRocks Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 I'm still at UT Austin. 354941[/snapback] is this what sent you spiraling downward into liberalism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 And, I know nothing about gardening. I can kill a plastic fern. 354951[/snapback] How is the plant Kristy and I sent you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 The best way to do this is to create a tracking system, one that sure as hell is a lot better then what we have right now. Track the damn guns and bullets, I'm sure we can figure out a way to do that securely with technology, and make it easier for our police force to enforce, catch, and prosecute violent criminals. 354934[/snapback] Tracking the bullets is going to be difficult. As the monkey mentioned, putting a chip in the bullet itself is difficult for many reasons: 1) If the chip is IN the bullet, you have to make sure it can survive the smelting process of creating the bullet. If it is on the outside, you now have issues of balance and aerodynamics of the bullet. You also need to find a way of making sure it can withstand items 2 and 3 when fired. Depending on th elocation of the chip, you now may have isses with the pressing of the casing. 2) the shock on the bullet when firing 3) the shock on the bullet when it hits its target Bullets can fragment. All of this needs to be considered if you want to add a chip to a bullet (plus some considerations I am probably missing). As far as tracking weapons, there is a crude system in place now. The problem you have is that you need to wait until a crime is committed before you can add a gun to the system, or you risk infringing on civil liberties. The BATF can trace weapons, but that is not always effective or reliable. Don't even get me started on ballistic fingerprinting. Talk about a COMPLETE waste of taxpayer resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Don't even get me started on ballistic fingerprinting. Talk about a COMPLETE waste of taxpayer resources. 355006[/snapback] But it works on CSI Miami Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 How is the plant Kristy and I sent you? 354978[/snapback] It's still going strong. Has to be the most durable plant on earth. You guys chose well, for me. I'll take a picture and send it to Kristy to prove it's alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 But it works on CSI Miami 355027[/snapback] Too bad it doesn't work in the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reuben Gant Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 So if abortion becomes illegal. Who goes to jail? -the Doctor? -the Woman? -the person that drove her to the clinic? I am against abortion in principle but do not see a way to legislate it away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crap Throwing Monkey Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Too bad it doesn't work in the real world. 355059[/snapback] CSI Miami isn't the real world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 CSI Miami isn't the real world? 355116[/snapback] DING! Hot Pockets® are ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 So if abortion becomes illegal. Who goes to jail? -the Doctor? -the Woman? -the person that drove her to the clinic? I am against abortion in principle but do not see a way to legislate it away. 355081[/snapback] The first two. Seeing as they're the ones complicit in the murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubes Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 this might sound silly, but...if women who didn't want children would stop manufacturing them...it would help put a dent in the abortion problem. 354967[/snapback] You're right. It's sounds silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 I'm probably the only liberal around (I've succumbed to the fact that over the past 4 years I've gone from Conservative to Liberal)... 354916[/snapback] Everybody - and I do mean everybody - goes back and forth between "Liberal" and "Conservative" every day. Anyone who denies it is a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 The first two. Seeing as they're the ones complicit in the murder. 355122[/snapback] Number three could be an accessory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNRed Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 is this what sent you spiraling downward into liberalism? 354968[/snapback] Being at UT Austin sent me spiraling towards conservatism. I can't handle all these hippies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacka Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Hahaha. Actually, the reason why I'm doing it is because I'm still at UT Austin. They had a few openings at the ITS Helpdesk here, and I used to be a Comp Sci major before realizing I really wanted to do Political Science. 354941[/snapback] Great, just what we need- another liberal politician/bureaucrat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 I'm probably the only liberal around (I've succumbed to the fact that over the past 4 years I've gone from Conservative to Liberal) that thinks outlawing guns is a bad idea. Stricter Gun Control good (why the hell can't we insert low-cost computer ID chips into bullets nowadays so that when someone gets shot, we at least have evidence of who the hell bought the bullet), taking Guns away completely bad. Did I mention that I realized I truely am a Liberal? God I hate that word. Anyway, the reason why I mentioned the abortion thing is I was doing some reading on a ban on abortion, and I wanted to know the conservative plan for unsafe abortions. I'm not completely against an abortion ban persay, I would just like to see the money spent to reduce abortions instead of enforcing laws to ban it. Seems like money better spent to me. (ps - respond to that damn PM I sent you!) 354916[/snapback] I don't think that outlawing guns is necessary. Good thing because it's impossible. But I do think that if you have to take written AND practical exams to get a driver's license, it's not too much to expect that you submit to a brief waiting period during which a background check is conducted in order to obtain a gun permit. And I think that keeping loaded guns in a house with children isn't a great idea - that guns in households with children must have some sort of lock on them. Unfortunately since there are morons out there who don't consider this there should be some sort of mandate, like with a penalty, around having those locks. I suppose having your kid die from playing with a loaded gun is a penalty, but that's a little too stiff for me. Perhaps something a little milder would be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 I don't think that outlawing guns is necessary. Good thing because it's impossible. But I do think that if you have to take written AND practical exams to get a driver's license, it's not too much to expect that you submit to a brief waiting period during which a background check is conducted in order to obtain a gun permit. And I think that keeping loaded guns in a house with children isn't a great idea - that guns in households with children must have some sort of lock on them. Unfortunately since there are morons out there who don't consider this there should be some sort of mandate, like with a penalty, around having those locks. I suppose having your kid die from playing with a loaded gun is a penalty, but that's a little too stiff for me. Perhaps something a little milder would be better. 355850[/snapback] Could they nationalize all firearm laws, ones that would cover the whole country? This being license and registration tracked to the actual ID number of the product? There is no way you are gonna stop firearms from traveling into areas with tighter restrictions in a "free" society. Can't things be standardized? Things don't have to be tighter, just get everybody on the same page. It has got to be controlled at the source, at manufacturing. The burden has to be there. It is easier to control a small group verses the large masses. Accountability for what they produce and sell has to be at tha level. Maybe drive up prices? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 200 Million guns didn't kill anyone yesterday. Your child is more likely to be struck by lightening than injured by a legally held firearm. Your uniformed opinions are just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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