Johnny Coli Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 The government subsidizes everything else, why not this? 357032[/snapback] What about goverment surplus cigarettes...really sub-par, crappy butts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Should we sterilize them too? After all, the government is supporting them, and them only. The hole is getting deeper 357040[/snapback] People from Florida? Hey, that'sa good idea, I hadn't thought about it. Might cut down on some of the problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Again so glad to see that people can have an opinion other than yours. While some of us are not so elequent with the English language, some of us actually have opinions beyond what a media source or political party tells us. I know I am a rare breed in that matter, but accept it any how. 357038[/snapback] Thanks for concentrating on the one thing you could possibly answer. Fished in... Fear the government that fears your freedom. Your willingness to transfer so much to an entity that has shown so little speaks volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Thanks for concentrating on the one thing you could possibly answer. Fished in... Fear the government that fears your freedom. Your willingness to transfer so much to an entity that has shown so little speaks volumes. 357057[/snapback] The average person would not have budged as much as one iota on this issue. VA did, and he is imo to be commended. I don't blame him for hating smoking. Sadly, smoking is not the real issue, but the distraction. Most people will not get it until it is too late, and each and every thing we do is regulated. This day is rapidly approaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 No but if you are poor and need public money, then all the government is doing is subsidizing your smoking habit. 357030[/snapback] I understand what VABills is saying. If these people can’t afford to pay for housing themselves, and the government is subsidizing their rent, then they shouldn’t be able to use the extra cash on an addiction. However, being a liberal, my plan would be to 1. Eliminate ALL smoking in the projects by setting an unrealistic goal very far into the future (ie 2015) 2. Enact extremely expensive anti-smoking programs that will ultimately fail, yet look good on paper for when I run for the Senate 3. Subsidize their habits with government cigarettes until the programs above can get them to quit 4. Spend large amounts of money trying to get the tobacco companies to foot the bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Not to mention the ridiculous cost of enforcement. Can you imagine an entire entity setup just to go in and find butts and ashtrays? Maybe they'll stumble across a Twinkie rapper and we can send the whole family to Gitmo. VERY smart. 357029[/snapback] Okay honest answer. For any house getting public subsidies, it is under government control. As such the federal government either directly or through contract services actually go out and are required to inspect the place once per year, in addition they are required to audit the owner once per year. This is to protect the tenant and ensure the mob is not doing government business. That said, while you don't send teams out to check for butts, these teams already are going out to inspect for problems the owner has to fix, they can easily note if they see cigarette butts inside the appartment. If so the tenant is given a warning, and booted the second time, no more government handout. No extra effort on the inspection teams, and easy to extract that info from the system where it is maintained. I know a little about that subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Okay honest answer. For any house getting public subsidies, it is under government control. As such the federal government either directly or through contract services actually go out and are required to inspect the place once per year, in addition they are required to audit the owner once per year. This is to protect the tenant and ensure the mob is not doing government business. That said, while you don't send teams out to check for butts, these teams already are going out to inspect for problems the owner has to fix, they can easily note if they see cigarette butts inside the appartment. If so the tenant is given a warning, and booted the second time, no more government handout. No extra effort on the inspection teams, and easy to extract that info from the system where it is maintained. I know a little about that subject. 357084[/snapback] Do you know anything about riots? VA, I am NOT being a wiseass! Do you want to see housing residents and police officers possibly killed because of a stupid issue such as this? Do you think these people will say, "OK, evict me and my children because I was caught with an ashtray" and smilingly head out into the cold with their babies? Please, think it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 I know a little about that subject. 357084[/snapback] Which makes your stance that much more stupifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Okay honest answer. For any house getting public subsidies, it is under government control. As such the federal government either directly or through contract services actually go out and are required to inspect the place once per year, in addition they are required to audit the owner once per year. This is to protect the tenant and ensure the mob is not doing government business. That said, while you don't send teams out to check for butts, these teams already are going out to inspect for problems the owner has to fix, they can easily note if they see cigarette butts inside the appartment. If so the tenant is given a warning, and booted the second time, no more government handout. No extra effort on the inspection teams, and easy to extract that info from the system where it is maintained. I know a little about that subject. 357084[/snapback] Now try to prove that they were the ones smoking and not someone else. Good luck with that. It shouldn't cost too much to impliment this plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Now try to prove that they were the ones smoking and not someone else. Good luck with that. It shouldn't cost too much to impliment this plan. 357114[/snapback] Doesn't matter, public building, not permitted in the building. Just like if you lend someone your car and they get caught with drugs, police get to keep your car. And Darin, how is my stance stupifying? Please explain. The owners of the property have to ensure these people have a safe encironment to live in, but if they want to trash the place it's okay. Trust me, a tenant can pretty much destroy a place, yet the owner has to fix it. How's that for you? And trust me it is pretty incredible what someof these folks do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 The subdivision's ban appears to be legal, according to the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development. Sex offenders are not a protected class under the Fair Housing Act, HUD spokesman Jerry Brown said. Katherine Stark, a board member of the National Fair Housing Alliance, said she's not surprised by the idea because people are scared of sex offenders. But, she said, the prohibition can't keep offenders from living near the subdivision. http://www.dfw.com/mld/startelegram/news/state/11824411.htm You'd have No smoking, But a sex offender is ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 http://www.dfw.com/mld/startelegram/news/state/11824411.htmYou'd have No smoking, But a sex offender is ok? 357156[/snapback] What???? From what you read it sounds like can and did ban them. Of course just like any other criminal once they have served their time they are allowed the same rights. Hence if they need public housing assistance it must be given. Smoking is an action. But just like a sex offender a smoker should be able to get public assitance. They just can't smoke in the rental unit, just like the sex offender can't commit sex crimes in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Smoking is an action. 357159[/snapback] A legal action, as it were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 A legal action, as it were. 357166[/snapback] Maybe but there are smokers and sex offenders. One should not be oppressed because they are either if they have served their time in the case of the Sex Offender. However, if one does the act of sex offending, or smoking where not permitted they should pay the approriate penalty. Obviously, one being more serious and should be punished more harshly, but both are illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Maybe but there are smokers and sex offenders. One should not be oppressed because they are either if they have served their time in the case of the Sex Offender. However, if one does the act of sex offending, or smoking where not permitted they should pay the approriate penalty. Obviously, one being more serious and should be punished more harshly, but both are illegal. 357176[/snapback] OMFG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin in Va Beach Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 OMFG. 357217[/snapback] "Somewhere, over the rainbow..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of BiB Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 "Somewhere, over the rainbow..." 357227[/snapback] ....Dorothy and Toto await him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 ....Dorothy and Toto await him. 357265[/snapback] Auntie Em, Auntie Em.................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 OMFG. 357217[/snapback] You know I have been thinking the same thing most of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Auntie Em, Auntie Em.................... 357270[/snapback] Stay out of it before you get hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 I have been thinking. 357281[/snapback] You're giving yourself alot of undue credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 You're giving yourself alot of undue credit. 357285[/snapback] You're so cute when your angry. Go gaffe a baby seal, you'll feel much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 You're so cute when your angry. Go gaffe a baby seal, you'll feel much better. 357296[/snapback] I'm stepping on a cat right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 Stay out of it before you get hurt. 357284[/snapback] Well, quit punching me in the shins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 I'm stepping on a cat right now. 357301[/snapback] That's better. Seal don't squeal as much. Just to hear that hissing and spitting makes it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 I would jump in VA... But, God knows you wouldn't want that. The stigma of agreeing with would be too much! Go easy on him people... We disagree on a lot... Or, do we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 A legal action, as it were. 357166[/snapback] UPDATE: Gov. Pataki came out against this legislation. He claims to be not comfortable telling people what to do and not do behind closed doors. Sounds good, but for about a decade, he was against the current smoking ban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 14, 2005 Share Posted June 14, 2005 UPDATE: Gov. Pataki came out against this legislation. He claims to be not comfortable telling people what to do and not do behind closed doors. Sounds good, but for about a decade, he was against the current smoking ban. 358123[/snapback] What seems to be the problem with telling people what to do? It happens everyday in this country... Watch next time a cop pulls over a car, the searches are ridicules... But that is okay? I simply view it as, if you are harming somebody else with your actions, the burden is ON YOU to correct your action. The victimizer CAN'T be the victim. Nothing is perfect in this world, we are all harming somebody, one way or another. Comes down to common courtesy... Unfortunately, they try to legislate that... It doesn't have to be that way. My father-in-law tells a story when he was young and lit up a cigar after a meal while out eating... Well, some lady made a loud proclaimation: "Who, the HELL lit up a cigar!"... Not that my father-in-law considered it, he didn't, he was clueless to the effect he had on others... To make a long story short, he was never that "clueless" again... He would show courtesy to others from that point on. And no he WASN'T GIVING IN... He was showing common courtesy. Think that happens in today's "in your face" society? Ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Well, some lady made a loud proclaimation: "Who, the HELL lit up a cigar!"... 358745[/snapback] Uh, it sounds like the woman of yesteryear would fit in just fine in today's "In Your Face" society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Uh, it sounds like the woman of yesteryear would fit in just fine in today's "In Your Face" society. 358823[/snapback] No. I don't consider it that way. She was correcting an individual with total lack of regard for others. Call that in your face if you want. I call it speaking out to correct someone's lack of common courtesy. Remember here, the cigar smoker wasn't just minding his business... He was being a nusance. That nusance just so happens to be a health risk for others. "In your face", would have been to puff away. It all comes down to power. Nobody has the power to harm another arbitrarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Why is it unlawful to smoke in a theater? Fill your gasoline in an unapproved container? Etc... etc... Do things gotta burn or blow up before your eyes to realize it is wrong and may harm others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 It also comes down to being a person of honor. When told to stop doing something that is harming another, they stop. Unfortunately, we don't live in a society that likes to yield to anyone. I wonder why? Then, in a half-hearted attempt, legislative acts start to take over in place of that honor. I am not saying it (the laws) work but, they (the laws) attempt to fill the void left by the shortcomings of society at a personal level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts