Mickey Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Down with whitey! Look man, my ancestors never lynched anybody, never owned a slave. Neither have I. So how is it I'm supposed to pay for the sins of people in the past with whome I've got no connectionother than the color of my skin, huh? 344204[/snapback] Who is asking you to pay for anything? We are talking about this incident here about a "black girl" reference in the yearbook etc. Most posts in the thread are dismissive of the idea of anyone finding that to be offensive. I don't think the best judges of whether or not a person's hurt feelings are legitimate by a racial remark are those who have never been discriminated against. Maybe people who have had to deal with racism all their lives might know a little bit more about it than those who haven't. If one can take the position that only veterans can vote, as you have, maybe it would make sense that only victims of racism can weigh in on issues of racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Who is asking you to pay for anything? We are talking about this incident here about a "black girl" reference in the yearbook etc. Most posts in the thread are dismissive of the idea of anyone finding that to be offensive. I don't think the best judges of whether or not a person's hurt feelings are legitimate by a racial remark are those who have never been discriminated against. Maybe people who have had to deal with racism all their lives might know a little bit more about it than those who haven't. If one can take the position that only veterans can vote, as you have, maybe it would make sense that only victims of racism can weigh in on issues of racism. 344436[/snapback] The whole idea that I should have to tiptoe around certain subjects to ensure no one is offended by them is ridiculous. Especially when the penalties for not oing so can include my livelihood. Such notions are the antithesis of Democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 All I said was that because of what black people went through for centuries, many do hold a grudge.Most of those people are dead, as are their oppressors. So who is perpetuating the grudge? People that want the free ride continued into the 23rd century? I was bused as a kid, and I was denied a job once because I was not a"black female". I agree with Bill Cosby, it's time for people to get off their lazy @ss and taking responsibility for their own kids instead of letting the state or some sports icon be their role model. 344230[/snapback] Right, you had to have lost that job because the other candidate was black and a woman, it couldn't possibly be that she was the better candidate for the job now could it? Why do so many white losers blame affirmative action for their own failures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 All animals are equal. Some are more equal than others. 344435[/snapback] kind of like penis size , all men are hung equal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 The whole idea that I should have to tiptoe around certain subjects to ensure no one is offended by them is ridiculous. Especially when the penalties for not oing so can include my livelihood. Such notions are the antithesis of Democracy. 344440[/snapback] You know, I seem to manage to get through the day without ever giving such offense or even having to take care to avoid them. Is it really that hard? All I do is practice the basic manners I was taught as a kid and that seems to cover it. Who has to "tip toe" just to be polite? Its effortless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockpile Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Gonna be awhile before you get invited to break bread with these folks again, I suspect. 344432[/snapback] It was family and friends. If the shoe was reversed (let's be honest) I could have easily made the same erroneous ASSumptions. THAT is what embarasses me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 It was family and friends. If the shoe was reversed (let's be honest) I could have easily made the same erroneous ASSumptions. THAT is what embarasses me! 344448[/snapback] rockpile con grats on 4000 post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 You know, I seem to manage to get through the day without ever giving such offense or even having to take care to avoid them. Is it really that hard? All I do is practice the basic manners I was taught as a kid and that seems to cover it. Who has to "tip toe" just to be polite? Its effortless. 344447[/snapback] That it is. The issue is not what I would actually do, but rather one of choice. I should not have to fear accusations of racism that may cost me my job if one of my coworkers is not doing a good job. That's just one example. But that spectre is always there. Want another example of how the whole "race" card is overblown? Look at the Billy Hunter comments of last week. Utterly ridiculous that he would infer racism from David Stern's remarks. But yet, somehow he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Who is asking you to pay for anything? We are talking about this incident here about a "black girl" reference in the yearbook etc. Most posts in the thread are dismissive of the idea of anyone finding that to be offensive. I don't think the best judges of whether or not a person's hurt feelings are legitimate by a racial remark are those who have never been discriminated against. Maybe people who have had to deal with racism all their lives might know a little bit more about it than those who haven't. If one can take the position that only veterans can vote, as you have, maybe it would make sense that only victims of racism can weigh in on issues of racism. 344436[/snapback] I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, nor am I claiming that racism should ever be tolerated. I am, however, saying that referring to people by their race or ethnicity is not inherently racism or bigotry. It depends upon the word choice, context, and intent of the reference to be racism IMO. And yes, I'm Anglo. And yes, I've been discriminated against for being Anglo. In fact, if any Anglo wants to know what it feels like to be told that they're in the "wrong" store and the "wrong" part of town, and perhaps even be occasionly threatened, PM me when you plan a trip to southeastern VA and I'll be sure to provide you with directions to some stores and shopping centers in Newport News, Portsmouth, Chesapeake, and Norfolk where you too can experience it. If you'll be in northern Virginia, PM VABills, I'm sure he can point out some places where the same has happened to him. Racism is wrong. Describing her as a "black girl" is not racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 kind of like penis size , all men are hung equal 344445[/snapback] I don't remember that part of Animal Farm. Perhaps you read the uncensored version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 I don't remember that part of Animal Farm. Perhaps you read the uncensored version? 344465[/snapback] xxx site on line wow ! they make them that big ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, nor am I claiming that racism should ever be tolerated. I am, however, saying that referring to people by their race or ethnicity is not inherently racism or bigotry. It depends upon the word choice, context, and intent of the reference to be racism IMO. And yes, I'm Anglo. And yes, I've been discriminated against for being Anglo. In fact, if any Anglo wants to know what it feels like to be told that they're in the "wrong" store and the "wrong" part of town, and perhaps even be occasionly threatened, PM me when you plan a trip to southeastern VA and I'll be sure to provide you with directions to some stores and shopping centers in Newport News, Portsmouth, Chesapeake, and Norfolk where you too can experience it. If you'll be in northern Virginia, PM VABills, I'm sure he can point out some places where the same has happened to him. Racism is wrong. Describing her as a "black girl" is not racism. 344460[/snapback] Not the same Campy. You have a whole country to roam around in that is white as white. Forays into small areas that are the reverse are just that, temporary forays. I think it is a different experience to see white, white, white everywhere you go. If that was a white girl it would have said "unidentified student" or simply "unidentified". That doesn't mean that the students were or are racists. The question really is whether the girl at issue was offended and whether that should be respected or, as was done in this thread, dismissively mocked. People say things all the time that are offensive to someone when they meant no harm. The basic way to handle that is to simply apologize and forget it, not attack the person offended. I once used the phrase "japped" to describe a situation I got into playing pool one night. I never knew it was a refernce to something sneaky because the "japs" bombed Pearl Harbor in a sneak attack. A guy standing in line at the dining hall behind me was Japanese and he was pretty po'd. We talked it out, I apologized and that was it. If I reacted like the so many have in this thread I would have added further insults and called him "thin skinned", etc. I don't know. I always just thought that the rules of polite society pretty much takes care of these issues whether they involve racism or some other offensive comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 That it is. The issue is not what I would actually do, but rather one of choice. I should not have to fear accusations of racism that may cost me my job if one of my coworkers is not doing a good job. That's just one example. But that spectre is always there. Want another example of how the whole "race" card is overblown? Look at the Billy Hunter comments of last week. Utterly ridiculous that he would infer racism from David Stern's remarks. But yet, somehow he did. 344459[/snapback] Knowing nothing about it, I'll take your word for it on this Billy Hunter thing. There are those who make false claims of racism just as there are those that are serious racists. That shouldn't govern our responses to these things. I sense you have some personal experience with this so maybe you are a little more concerned with false claims than with the true ones. As for this particular incident, seems like the kids who printed up the yearbook feel bad about having offended anyone unintentionally and are going to fix it which is really the good manners type of response that is called for here. We need more of that all around I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Knowing nothing about it, I'll take your word for it on this Billy Hunter thing. There are those who make false claims of racism just as there are those that are serious racists. That shouldn't govern our responses to these things. I sense you have some personal experience with this so maybe you are a little more concerned with false claims than with the true ones. As for this particular incident, seems like the kids who printed up the yearbook feel bad about having offended anyone unintentionally and are going to fix it which is really the good manners type of response that is called for here. We need more of that all around I suspect. 344483[/snapback] Sure, civility would be nice....but it is a two-way street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUBillsFan Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Not the same Campy. You have a whole country to roam around in that is white as white. Forays into small areas that are the reverse are just that, temporary forays. I think it is a different experience to see white, white, white everywhere you go. If that was a white girl it would have said "unidentified student" or simply "unidentified". That doesn't mean that the students were or are racists. The question really is whether the girl at issue was offended and whether that should be respected or, as was done in this thread, dismissively mocked. People say things all the time that are offensive to someone when they meant no harm. The basic way to handle that is to simply apologize and forget it, not attack the person offended. I once used the phrase "japped" to describe a situation I got into playing pool one night. I never knew it was a refernce to something sneaky because the "japs" bombed Pearl Harbor in a sneak attack. A guy standing in line at the dining hall behind me was Japanese and he was pretty po'd. We talked it out, I apologized and that was it. If I reacted like the so many have in this thread I would have added further insults and called him "thin skinned", etc. I don't know. I always just thought that the rules of polite society pretty much takes care of these issues whether they involve racism or some other offensive comment. 344475[/snapback] I'm thinking that most people are, most likely right, that this will is going to turn into a lawsuit. I bet that's where most people have the problems is that it may or may not have hurt her feelings. The next thing is jesse jackson down there saying how bad it is and then a muti-million dollar lawsuit for, in your words, hurt feelings. As for racisim now a days, IMO, it's WAAAAAY more economic than racial. I don't care who lives next to me as long as they can afford the house (ie take care of it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 I'm thinking that most people are, most likely right, that this will is going to turn into a lawsuit. I bet that's where most people have the problems is that it may or may not have hurt her feelings. The next thing is jesse jackson down there saying how bad it is and then a muti-million dollar lawsuit for, in your words, hurt feelings. As for racisim now a days, IMO, it's WAAAAAY more economic than racial. I don't care who lives next to me as long as they can afford the house (ie take care of it). 344509[/snapback] Exactly. In my last neighborhood, more than half of the homes were owned by Mexican immigrant families. You'd never have known it from the neighborhood , though and for the most part, they were good neighbors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac_Man Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Are people still discriminated against based on race? I believe they are, though probably not to the extent that a Jesse Jackson would have us believe. Yet this lingering discrimination receives far more attention than something which may be more prevalent: discrimination against unattractive people. Some time back, I read about a study which indicated attractive men are, on average, more likely to rise to the top of an organization than ugly men. This is true even in traditionally all-male organizations such as the military. Is it more fair to discriminate against someone based on being born ugly than it is based on being born black? I personally don't see a difference. If you can do the job better than anyone else, your race or level of personal attractiveness shouldn't matter. Why, then, is so much attention given to the problem of anti-black discrimination, and so little given to the problem of appearance-based discrimination? Ultimately, I believe many unattractive people know a lesson that many black people would do well to learn: instead of crying about how life is unfair, it's better to make the best use of the cards you've been dealt. The culture of victimhood that exists in elements of the black community would be a hinderance to anyone. It also appears that, as racism and the effects of racism have declined, many in the black community have actually increased their focus on the issue. Ultimately, they are only hurting themselves; and would be better served by focusing on how to take advantage of the many opportunities they do have. In fact, many black people have done this already, and have built excellent lives for themselves. This is not to say that every black person who complains about racism has embraced a culture of victimhood. Sometimes, complaints about racism are legitimate. But any black person who thinks, I can't get anywhere in life because of my race is artificially limiting his or her own scope of accomplishments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Exactly. In my last neighborhood, more than half of the homes were owned by Mexican immigrant families. You'd never have known it from the neighborhood , though and for the most part, they were good neighbors. 344511[/snapback] Oh so now you are saying Mexican immigrants are good for yard work only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Not the same Campy. You have a whole country to roam around in that is white as white. Forays into small areas that are the reverse are just that, temporary forays. I think it is a different experience to see white, white, white everywhere you go. If that was a white girl it would have said "unidentified student" or simply "unidentified". That doesn't mean that the students were or are racists. The question really is whether the girl at issue was offended and whether that should be respected or, as was done in this thread, dismissively mocked. People say things all the time that are offensive to someone when they meant no harm. The basic way to handle that is to simply apologize and forget it, not attack the person offended. I once used the phrase "japped" to describe a situation I got into playing pool one night. I never knew it was a refernce to something sneaky because the "japs" bombed Pearl Harbor in a sneak attack. A guy standing in line at the dining hall behind me was Japanese and he was pretty po'd. We talked it out, I apologized and that was it. If I reacted like the so many have in this thread I would have added further insults and called him "thin skinned", etc. I don't know. I always just thought that the rules of polite society pretty much takes care of these issues whether they involve racism or some other offensive comment. 344475[/snapback] Our nation's history in the area of race-relations is regretable, and I'm well aware of our past. Your example where you used the term "japped" is something of a strawman relative to the issue at hand, but we'll continue the scene. Let's say you follow bar etiquette and tell him you're going to buy him a drink to show you meant no hard feelings, afterall, you didn't mean to offend the only Asian in the bar by making a flippant remark. Besides, you tell him, that had you known it's implied meaning, you would have never said in the first place He thanks you and returns to the area of his table to grab a smoke. You don't know his name, but he overhears you asking the waitress to deliver a beer to "the Japanese man" as you point in the general vicinity of where his table is. Is he offended then? If the yearbook contained the n-word or any other of a number crass, rude, and downright deragotory terms I'd agree with you 110%. Instead, the student editors captioned her photo as "black girl" in the template and failed to correct it before it went to print. Having served as an editor for my senior class yearbook, captioning photos in a similar manner until the proper spelling, or even just the student's name if it's unknown, can be confirmed is a common occurance. They used a non-deragotory term for the student's race to quickly and easily identify her. There doesn't appear to be any hidden agenda, subversion, or insult, only sloppy editing before the book went to print. Big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 25, 2005 Share Posted May 25, 2005 Oh so now you are saying Mexican immigrants are good for yard work only. 344517[/snapback] see.....SEE?!?!? This is the kind of shite I'm talking about (Even though VA was being facetious)... Claims of racism today are muddied by a lot of reading between the lines... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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