Pokebball Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 31 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: This is blatantly false. Let's assume they did. Would you then support restricting all other abortions in the 3rd trimester? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted August 9, 2023 Author Share Posted August 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, Pokebball said: Let's assume they did. Would you then support restricting all other abortions in the 3rd trimester? Sure, but you would have to be pretty clear and unambiguous in the language. The problem with heartbeat bills and "life of the mother" as the exceptions is that non-viable pregnancies (that can be dangerous to continue) can still have a heartbeat. Also, mothers can sustain permanent damage that is short of life threatening. The problem is that the people writing these laws aren't experts in medicine and seem to not want to listen to people who are. Which is part of why I would prefer to focus on the root causes of abortion to prevent putting people in the position to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 11 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Other than that, what else they got? You best worry about the GQP's platform... so far, it's not very popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Sure, but you would have to be pretty clear and unambiguous in the language. The problem with heartbeat bills and "life of the mother" as the exceptions is that non-viable pregnancies (that can be dangerous to continue) can still have a heartbeat. Also, mothers can sustain permanent damage that is short of life threatening. The problem is that the people writing these laws aren't experts in medicine and seem to not want to listen to people who are. Which is part of why I would prefer to focus on the root causes of abortion to prevent putting people in the position to begin with. Sure, but the root causes aren't an either or. 13 minutes ago, BillStime said: You best worry about the GQP's platform... so far, it's not very popular. The right thing to do isn't always the most popular 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 1 minute ago, Pokebball said: The right thing to do isn't always the most popular F around and find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, BillStime said: F around and find out. That's the plan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 1 minute ago, Pokebball said: That's the plan So much winning, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, BillStime said: So much winning, eh? Yeah, we knew this before we did it. Eyes wide open! Edited August 9, 2023 by Pokebball 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted August 9, 2023 Author Share Posted August 9, 2023 52 minutes ago, Pokebball said: Sure, but the root causes aren't an either or. True, but addressing the root cause of abortion should be the focus of those looking to reduce or eliminate elective abortions. However, they absolutely refuse to do so and even oppose policies that would address them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 22 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: True, but addressing the root cause of abortion should be the focus of those looking to reduce or eliminate elective abortions. However, they absolutely refuse to do so and even oppose policies that would address them. "They" is probably me. What do I oppose? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted August 9, 2023 Author Share Posted August 9, 2023 17 minutes ago, Pokebball said: "They" is probably me. What do I oppose? Not necessarily. I don't know you and I'm not going to make assumptions about your beliefs. Studies have been done on why people seek elective abortions and the results seem to be fairly consistent. Here is what one such study found: (participants could choose multiple reasons) 40% - Not financially prepared 36% - Not the right time 31% - Partner related reasons 29% - Need to focus on other children 20% - Interferes with future opportunities 19% - Not emotionally or mentally prepared 12% - Health related reasons 12% - Want a better life for the baby than she can provide 7% - Not independent or mature enough for a baby 5% - Influence from family or friends 4% - Don't want a baby Given that list, robust financial support for pregnant mothers combined with easy access to contraceptives to prevent unwanted pregnancies would go a long way to reducing abortions without jeopardizing anyone's health. Since a large number seem to be concerned about finances and opportunities, ensuring financial support and career protection (mandated leave, childcare, etc) would probably help raise the birthrate by helping people who would want more kids but aren't sure they can afford to have them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 7 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Not necessarily. I don't know you and I'm not going to make assumptions about your beliefs. Studies have been done on why people seek elective abortions and the results seem to be fairly consistent. Here is what one such study found: (participants could choose multiple reasons) 40% - Not financially prepared 36% - Not the right time 31% - Partner related reasons 29% - Need to focus on other children 20% - Interferes with future opportunities 19% - Not emotionally or mentally prepared 12% - Health related reasons 12% - Want a better life for the baby than she can provide 7% - Not independent or mature enough for a baby 5% - Influence from family or friends 4% - Don't want a baby Given that list, robust financial support for pregnant mothers combined with easy access to contraceptives to prevent unwanted pregnancies would go a long way to reducing abortions without jeopardizing anyone's health. Since a large number seem to be concerned about finances and opportunities, ensuring financial support and career protection (mandated leave, childcare, etc) would probably help raise the birthrate by helping people who would want more kids but aren't sure they can afford to have them. Interesting. Obviously, it was possible to give more than one answer. It is really, really, easy to not get pregnant if one doesn't want to get pregnant. I think some personal responsibility would go a long way to eliminate a need for abortion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted August 9, 2023 Author Share Posted August 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Pokebball said: It is really, really, easy to not get pregnant if one doesn't want to get pregnant. I think some personal responsibility would go a long way to eliminate a need for abortion. Ok, well that's not happening now. Would you prefer the government force personal responsibility on people? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 5 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Ok, well that's not happening now. Would you prefer the government force personal responsibility on people? I would think forced subcutaneous birth control would be unpopular with MAGA's. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 3 hours ago, redtail hawk said: How is that a qualification to pontificate on abortion law? good thing you aren't kin to anyone in the early examples. No I’m not kin to any of those few examples….but that doesn’t make what I said incorrect. We don’t or shouldn’t govern on the basis of limited exceptions. There’s always someone you can cite that’s been damaged at some time, somewhere by every law. But…I remain utterly amazed at how few issues there have been around the reversal of the abortion law. It’s been many many many many months now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 5 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Ok, well that's not happening now. Would you prefer the government force personal responsibility on people? Let's make this simple for you. I assume you agree with me that mom shouldn't be able to kill her 1yr old baby because: Not financially prepared Not the right time Partner related reasons Need to focus on other children Interferes with future opportunities Not emotionally or mentally prepared Health related reasons Want a better life for the baby than she can provide Not independent or mature enough for a baby Influence from family or friends Don't want a baby Why? Is it because you prefer the government should or shouldn't force personal responsibility on people? Nah! The difference is simply when you and I believe a life begins and deserves the liberties we've asked our government to protect. It isn't whether you or I prefer the government to force personal responsibility, cause we both actually do. The difference is simply when it should begin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Ok, well that's not happening now. Would you prefer the government force personal responsibility on people? Like being forced to get a vaccine? Edited August 9, 2023 by Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 😢 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokebball Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 Just now, BillStime said: 😢 Has Armageddon begun? Billsy's in line with Ann Coulter! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Ferguson forever Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 5 minutes ago, BillStime said: 😢 Littig said almost the same thing but went further. "There is no Republican party" Coulter's a wench and wouldn't be saying such things if trump didn't disown her. But it's true. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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