dave mcbride Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 What will you think if/when McGahee holds out, regardless of the fact that the Bills gave him a big chance when others wouldn't? I would like to see an analysis of the careers of guys who hold out, post-holdout. So many have been disappointing (I'm thinking of guys like Joey Galloway). I'd even argue Lawyer Milloy is not nearly the player he was before his holdout. I've said it before, I'll say it again. Nobody forced these guys to sign contracts at gunpoint. And if you really think your pay should be performance-based, insist on incentives. 327863[/snapback] ? - milloy didn't hold out. he refused to take a pay cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Yeah, I think the Bills signed him. 328091[/snapback] to reiterate, milloy did not hold out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Think about that for a minute. If Willis holds out and Shaud Williams is the Bills starting rb and the Bills finish 4-12, what do you think crowds would be like at the Ralph? They won't be sells out I guarantee and that's a big loss of money to Mr. Wilson. I just love how the players are always wrong, but the owners are the ones who are profiting more than anyone. 328230[/snapback] So it's okay for a player to hold a company/owner hostage because the player knows the company/owner will lose money if they DO hold out? That sounds okay to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Want to end most holdouts in the NFL? Guarantee the contracts that players sign. Seems only fair to me that the teams should be held just as responsible to live up to their end of the contract as the players are expected to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin in Va Beach Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Want to end most holdouts in the NFL? Guarantee the contracts that players sign. Seems only fair to me that the teams should be held just as responsible to live up to their end of the contract as the players are expected to. 328339[/snapback] Or here's a novel concept- base salaries with performance incentives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Or here's a novel concept- base salaries with performance incentives 328349[/snapback] The problem with performance based salaries is it would cause a serious problem between what's good for the team and what's good for the player. Imagine a player chasing the rushing title in a 4th quarter blowout, the coach sits him down to rest, and he blows up because it's messing with his money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin in Va Beach Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 The problem with performance based salaries is it would cause a serious problem between what's good for the team and what's good for the player. Imagine a player chasing the rushing title in a 4th quarter blowout, the coach sits him down to rest, and he blows up because it's messing with his money. 328358[/snapback] A minor problem, and easily dealt with in the contract: If Player X is close to bonus, but Team Z has already made the playoffs and wants to rest Player X, Player X will automically qualify for his next level bonus. If at any time a player feels playing time was cut for performance bonus reasons, he can petition a tribunal to look into the matter. If it is shown that a team sat a player at any time so as not to have to pay a bonus, the team will not only have to pay the bonus but will also be penalized an additional amount (an incentive not to sit a player). Hell, I'm just some dumb schmuck and rolled that off the top of my head. Surely the supersmart lawyers and other executive-types can come up with more rules and sh-- and make it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Hell, I'm just some dumb schmuck and rolled that off the top of my head. Surely the supersmart lawyers and other executive-types can come up with more rules and sh-- and make it happen. 328366[/snapback] I think it's best to keep things simple. Why set up a whole bureaucracy within the NFL when you could solve the problem by guaranteeing contracts and cutting the players' argument off at the knees. I think you're right that a performance based system is possible, but I don't think you'd ever get the NFLPA to go along with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Lord, maybe I'm an idiot but NFL players HAVE guaranteed contracts. It is called a signing bonus. Even a seventh rd draft pick, or for that matter most of the undrafted FAs get a signing bonus. Like I said earlier, the salary and number of years are the teams way of saying. okay, in exchange for the guaranteed money we are paying you upfront, you will be tied to us for x years. If you do not like those terms, do NOT sign the contract. All of thse guys signed the contract knowing that. Walker pissed at the contract he signed, a contract , with a signing bonus, that was given to him before he ever played a down in the NFL. Betcha the contract didn't say we get our signing bonus back if you decide to dog in training camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkwwjd Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 I'd be happy to sign a contract with a $100,000 signing bonus -- only to be hurt and never play again. I think that the money would hold me over 'til I found something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Want to end most holdouts in the NFL? Guarantee the contracts that players sign. Seems only fair to me that the teams should be held just as responsible to live up to their end of the contract as the players are expected to. 328339[/snapback] I think the salary caps, with the guaranteed money they provide and the cap hit teams have to take on them, essentially DO force teams to live up to their ends of contracts. The point is, Walker's essentially had one good year, and not a T.O.-type year either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CircleTheWagons Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Lord help us. It's ruined baseball and basketball. 327992[/snapback] You really think the problems with baseball and basketball are because of guaranteed contracts? I disagree but I didn't really intend to argue "for" guaranteed contracts, just defending players "holding out" without them, if that makes sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thailog80 Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 You really think the problems with baseball and basketball are because of guaranteed contracts? I disagree but I didn't really intend to argue "for" guaranteed contracts, just defending players "holding out" without them, if that makes sense 328550[/snapback] They are a problem in those sports not THE problem. Too many to list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CircleTheWagons Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Ah yes, but they are guaranteed. The signing bonus is what these guys play for. Remember in the sports that do have guaranteed contracts, there is generally no signing bonus. So, in the NFL the rest of the contract is there as the negotiation by teams saying, okay, before you play a down for us, I am giving X amount of money to you upfront. However, for that you agree to play for me at X amount of dollars for this set time frame. Now, if the owners could go back and get a signing bonus back because a guy sucks, than I agree with you. Think San Diego would have like to gotten back a piece of Leafs bonus? Or how about Atlanta with Peerless. 328014[/snapback] Can't some signing bonuses be clawed back? I think Cleveland is going after part of Winslow's and Miami wated some of Wickys. I don't really view the signing bonus that way, although it sounds reasonable. I view the signing bonus as part of the team's commitment to the player - if it's a big bonus spread over a long contract, there's less chance the player will be cut and have his signing bonus accelerated. In addition, for younger players, it's one of the ways management can get around the rookie salary cap(I think). Players who think they are significantly underpaid aren't going to be happy employees - I would rather they sat out than made up some mysterious injury to sit on the sidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CircleTheWagons Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 They are a problem in those sports not THE problem. Too many to list. 328552[/snapback] Your preaching to a former Expos fan. AMEN brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarthur31 Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Walker hasn't been in the league that long to earn the right to B word about his contract. What he needs to do is fire his agent if he thinks he got hosed on his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 So the team should have the right to cut a player when they don't think he's living up to his contract...but if a player outplays his contract he should suck it up and play for less money than he's worth? Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Can't some signing bonuses be clawed back? I think Cleveland is going after part of Winslow's and Miami wated some of Wickys. . 328560[/snapback] Yes , the bonus can be pulled if you injure yourself outside of football doing an activity that is considered dangerous, like riding a motorcycle. However, if you sliced your fingers off while cutting tomatoes, your bonus is intact. Ricky also signed a provision when he redid his deal with the Dolphins that if he did not fulfill the contractual obligations, the Dolphins could go after his signing bonus, and the carzy thing is the Saints paid the Bonus!!!! But no, if a team cuts you they cannot demand any of the bonus back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Favre should mind his own business. 327790[/snapback] Favre is awesome, likely my favorite current NFL'er not employed by the Buffalo Bills. That said, I agree with you 100% That is just un-cooth (spelling AD?), the highest payed player on the team, calling out someone else who wants to make more money. I don't really disagree with Favre's stance, I just don't think it is his place to speak out on it, team leader or not...that is our job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROSCOE P. COE TRAIN Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 ok, just got off the phone with my boss, romeo. i work for the batavia trash collector association. we get paid 1st of the month and are expected to haul trash for the rest of the month, so we get paid upfront. anyway, told him to go phuck himself and that i will not haul anymore trash this month (may) even though they paid me. i feel as if i haul trash great and some homeowners comlimented me when i carried three boxes of empty mason jars to and from the back of the truck with no rest. my fellow co-trashhauler, lanny, who i called after calling romeo (boss) told me to come back to the garbage team because they need me and because they expect a large amount of trash this month. i feel pressured. should i return to the team or hold out for more cash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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