Orlando Buffalo Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 5 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Obviously there are going to be politics involved, it’s Congress. The question was whether is was purely political, which I do not believe is true. We only have reporting on Cheney keeping the focus on Trump, so I can only speculate as to why Bennie Thompson would accept her demands. Maybe it was to keep the committee working together and prevent fracturing. I dunno. I haven’t read the full report yet but I heard it doesn’t mention Ginni Thomas at all. I’d imagine that was at Cheney’s insistence as well. In the end, people will likely just believe what they want to believe anyway. So it was all political, which is what I stated. The committee had one main purpose, which was to politically injure Trump, they protected every other member of the establishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, Orlando Tim said: So it was all political, which is what I stated. The committee had one main purpose, which was to politically injure Trump, they protected every other member of the establishment. From the reporting I’ve seen, the report actually goes after many people who aren’t Trump. Trump is the main focus, sure, but he’s not the only one to be shown acting poorly or even criminally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 2 hours ago, Tiberius said: So you don't care Trump tried to violently steal the election, correct? political parties aside… But please do tell how you can steal an election without any guns or weapons? How could the most powerful country on the face of the planet be in danger Of being toppled without any weapons? That’s literally an impossible coup…. Were the people storming the capital wrong? Yea Was our country’s freedom threatened? Absolutely not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: political parties aside… But please do tell how you can steal an election without any guns or weapons? How could the most powerful country on the face of the planet be in danger Of being toppled without any weapons? That’s literally an impossible coup…. Were the people storming the capital wrong? Yea Was our country’s freedom threatened? Absolutely not There was a coordinated effort to overturn the results of the election. It was ultimately not successful in part because it was a stupid plan by stupid people and in part because key people in power acted in the name of the rule of law, even if it was against their own political interests. Just because it was incredibly unlikely to work doesn’t mean we should dismiss it. The best indicator of a successful coup is a failed previous attempt. Those involved should be punished in accordance with the law. Edited December 28, 2022 by ChiGoose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: There was a coordinated effort to overturn the results of the election. It was ultimately not successful in part because it was a stupid plan by stupid people and in part because key people in power acted in the name of the rule of law, even if it was against their own political interests. Just because it was incredibly unlikely to work doesn’t mean we should dismiss it. The best indicator of a successful coup is a failed previous attempt. Those involved should be punished in accordance with the law. Trump never called for violence In fact the words peaceful protest was used multiple times There were bigger riots after George Floyd… Please do tell how what happened that day could’ve possibly changed election results? Because that would take war All those idiots stormed the capital… then what? Trumps automatically president again lol Edited December 28, 2022 by Buffalo716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Trump never called for violence In fact the words peaceful protest was used multiple times There were bigger riots after George Floyd… Please do tell how what happened that day could’ve possibly changed election results? Because that would take war All those idiots stormed the capital… then what? Trumps automatically president again lol Both the fake electors scheme and the push to have Pence not certify the election were attempts at overturning the results of the election. Not everything was about the violence on the day itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Both the fake electors scheme and the push to have Pence not certify the election were attempts at overturning the results of the election. Not everything was about the violence on the day itself. If you think our democracy could fold that easily well then our country’s already lost I am not even pro Trump but I can agree everything about that election was shady… It was not normal… And I’ve seen a lot of presidential elections It shouldn’t take a week to decide our president… Unless they’re recounting every vote Edited December 28, 2022 by Buffalo716 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 11 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: If you think our democracy could fold that easily well then our country’s already lost I am not even pro Trump but I can agree everything about that election was shady… It was not normal… And I’ve seen a lot of presidential elections It shouldn’t take a week to decide our president… Unless they’re recounting every vote It almost always takes a week to decide the president. Usually more than that. The media outlets “calling” the election has no legal weight. The 2020 election was not rigged, but there were several different attempts to overturn the results regardless. The people behind those schemes should be subject to the full force of the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 1 hour ago, ChiGoose said: Obviously there are going to be politics involved, it’s Congress. The question was whether is was purely political, which I do not believe is true. We only have reporting on Cheney keeping the focus on Trump, so I can only speculate as to why Bennie Thompson would accept her demands. Maybe it was to keep the committee working together and prevent fracturing. I dunno. I haven’t read the full report yet but I heard it doesn’t mention Ginni Thomas at all. I’d imagine that was at Cheney’s insistence as well. In the end, people will likely just believe what they want to believe anyway. This is an interesting take. I just re-read Thompson’s opening statement about getting to bottom of what happened. He referenced the officers who held the line, the rioters storming the halls of Congress looking for Nancy Pelosi, of gallows in tow as some looked for Mike Pence. It was inspiring stuff, and he and Liz Cheney outwardly seemed committed to telling the American people the truth of what happened that day wherever that lead. Then I got back to thinking about what you had to offer on the 1/6 report being less of an unvarnished and raw recap of what happened and more of a political-protect-your-cronies-at-all costs reimagining oh what they wish it might have looked like. I guess if we’re speculating on a report that sounds quite flawed to begin with, it makes sense that Cheney and Thompson both had political allies they were sworn to protect? Maybe they discovered unprofessional behavior or dereliction of duty by those ultimately responsible for securing the building on that fateful day? Or perhaps there was some coordination between rioters and dem politicians to allow access or breach security to implicate Trump? The most likely scenario seems obvious—there is no way in hell that the Capitol should have been overrun by people without weapons, without a plan of attack and military-style coordination. Someone f’d up, badly, and it was likely someone close (or useful). to both Cheney and Thompson. Mostly though, I think how you and I have pretty much the same opinion of this committee, but that you like the result while I wonder why they didn’t really want to get to the truth and share that with the American people. Instead, we get just more reason to be distrustful of the gangs of DC and how they operate. Kudos to @Orlando Tim for asking the right question the right way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 (edited) 35 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: It almost always takes a week to decide the president. Usually more than that. The media outlets “calling” the election has no legal weight. The 2020 election was not rigged, but there were several different attempts to overturn the results regardless. The people behind those schemes should be subject to the full force of the law. It does not usually take a week to decide the presidential election Bush gore took time with a recount It’s called election day not election week Somebody usually always concedes before the end of the night or next day… When they concede it’s over They conceded defeat We knew Trump won in 2016… Obama in 12… Obama in 8… Bush in 04(Kerry conceded Wednesday)…. 2000 had the recount … 96 we knew Clinton … 92 we knew Clinton (Bush conceded that night) I can go on and on Edited December 28, 2022 by Buffalo716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 21 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Somebody usually always concedes before the end of the night or next day… When they concede it’s over No its not. Its over when all the votes are counted. Gore conceded but there were recounts etc and it wasn't decided for a month or so. Conceding really means nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: No its not. Its over when all the votes are counted. Gore conceded but there were recounts etc and it wasn't decided for a month or so. Conceding really means nothing. You missed my entire point then Besides when there’s a recount we always know who wins by the next day for the last 20-30 +years And gore did not concede until the Supreme Court decision… He conceded defeat in December after the Supreme Court decision It went to the Supreme Court because he refused to concede… And it was within the margin Edited December 28, 2022 by Buffalo716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 Just now, Buffalo716 said: You missed my entire point then Besides when there’s a recount we always know who wins by the next day Generally, elections are not so close that the media outlets are unable to make a call on election night. However, the counting itself usually continues for days or even weeks. Only when it is finished and certified is the election truly decided. In most elections, the margins are large enough that media outlets can call the election before the votes are all counted. I think California usually takes weeks to finish counting, but the margins are so large that the media can make a projection or call well ahead of time. What happened in 2020 was pretty straightforward: more people voted by mail than usual because of the pandemic, different states had different rules about when the mail in ballots can be counted, and the election was very close. All of that meant that it wasn’t as easy to call certain states on Election Day than in other elections. Another likely problem was that Fox probably called Arizona a bit earlier than it should have. It was clear on November 6th that Biden had won but I think some media outlets that had Arizona as still undecided were afraid to pull the trigger on calling Pennsylvania until they could call Arizona too. That would have resulted in Fox and the AP showing Arizona for Biden but PA undecided while other outlets showed PA for Biden but Arizona undecided. The combination of the two states would have put him over 270. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 54 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: This is an interesting take. I just re-read Thompson’s opening statement about getting to bottom of what happened. He referenced the officers who held the line, the rioters storming the halls of Congress looking for Nancy Pelosi, of gallows in tow as some looked for Mike Pence. It was inspiring stuff, and he and Liz Cheney outwardly seemed committed to telling the American people the truth of what happened that day wherever that lead. Then I got back to thinking about what you had to offer on the 1/6 report being less of an unvarnished and raw recap of what happened and more of a political-protect-your-cronies-at-all costs reimagining oh what they wish it might have looked like. I guess if we’re speculating on a report that sounds quite flawed to begin with, it makes sense that Cheney and Thompson both had political allies they were sworn to protect? Maybe they discovered unprofessional behavior or dereliction of duty by those ultimately responsible for securing the building on that fateful day? Or perhaps there was some coordination between rioters and dem politicians to allow access or breach security to implicate Trump? The most likely scenario seems obvious—there is no way in hell that the Capitol should have been overrun by people without weapons, without a plan of attack and military-style coordination. Someone f’d up, badly, and it was likely someone close (or useful). to both Cheney and Thompson. Mostly though, I think how you and I have pretty much the same opinion of this committee, but that you like the result while I wonder why they didn’t really want to get to the truth and share that with the American people. Instead, we get just more reason to be distrustful of the gangs of DC and how they operate. Kudos to @Orlando Tim for asking the right question the right way. I don’t think we have the same opinion of the committee. I also don’t think the decision to focus on Trump was part of a coverup. I think it was a decision made likely to either keep Cheney from publicly splitting from the committee and/or because making it about Trump gets the headlines and will draw more eyes to the report. It seems like everyone likes to jump to dastardly conclusions but the truth is more likely to be fairly mundane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Generally, elections are not so close that the media outlets are unable to make a call on election night. However, the counting itself usually continues for days or even weeks. Only when it is finished and certified is the election truly decided. In most elections, the margins are large enough that media outlets can call the election before the votes are all counted. I think California usually takes weeks to finish counting, but the margins are so large that the media can make a projection or call well ahead of time. What happened in 2020 was pretty straightforward: more people voted by mail than usual because of the pandemic, different states had different rules about when the mail in ballots can be counted, and the election was very close. All of that meant that it wasn’t as easy to call certain states on Election Day than in other elections. Another likely problem was that Fox probably called Arizona a bit earlier than it should have. It was clear on November 6th that Biden had won but I think some media outlets that had Arizona as still undecided were afraid to pull the trigger on calling Pennsylvania until they could call Arizona too. That would have resulted in Fox and the AP showing Arizona for Biden but PA undecided while other outlets showed PA for Biden but Arizona undecided. The combination of the two states would have put him over 270. You are using jargon… And we are in an advanced Enough society that we should be able to count mail in votes quickly too… and all votes…There’s no reason for what happened … We Are the greatest country in the world… Count mail in votes first and make them all be in by election day… Easy Peezy lemon squeezy My point stands… That except for Recounts … America always knows the president well before a week You can go to bed at 2 AM after election night… And the world will know who the American president will be… If not you will know by noon the next day Except in rare circumstances It was a funky election… I’m not saying theft , cheat, … I’m saying funky Trump was up so big when everybody went to bed at 1 AM… Vegas had him as a huge favorite… Then America wakes up to Biden leading… And then it gets funky for 2 months In fact my online bookie paid me back my 5000 bet on the presidential election because funk… that doesn’t happen… EVER Yes I bet on politics because I’m a gambling addict lol Edited December 28, 2022 by Buffalo716 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiGoose Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 7 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: You are using jargon… And we are in an advanced Enough society that we should be able to count mail in votes quickly too… and all votes…There’s no reason for what happened … We Are the greatest country in the world… Count mail in votes first and make them all be in by election day… Easy Peezy lemon squeezy My point stands… That except for Recounts … America always knows the president well before a week You can go to bed at 2 AM after election night… And the world will know who the American president will be… If not you will know by noon the next day Except in rare circumstances It was a funky election… I’m not saying theft , cheat, … I’m saying funky Trump was up so big when everybody went to bed at 1 AM… Vegas had him as a huge favorite… Then America wakes up to Biden leading… And then it gets funky for 2 months In fact my online bookie paid me back my 5000 bet on the presidential election because funk Man, I’d like to know where you’re betting if the bookies are that bad at setting lines. While the betting markets were more favorable to Trump than the models and forecasters, they generally had Biden as a pretty clear favorite. Maybe that changed a bit during the counting but I would hope that oddsmakers would be familiar with the expected Red Mirage. It was pretty clear the day after Election Day which way the election was going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: Man, I’d like to know where you’re betting if the bookies are that bad at setting lines. While the betting markets were more favorable to Trump than the models and forecasters, they generally had Biden as a pretty clear favorite. Maybe that changed a bit during the counting but I would hope that oddsmakers would be familiar with the expected Red Mirage. It was pretty clear the day after Election Day which way the election was going. Biden was Clear favorite the entire time leading up to the election and on the day… It’s well known that Republicans always make their run late in Election Day By 11 pm Trump was turning the tides and looked like he was going to win the election… Especially by the history of Republican voting late By midnight he was the clear betting favorite in Vegas… Biden went from -170 to +185… massive jump in 1 hour Trump from + 190 to -230 …. Again an insane jump Republicans have 40 years of being late voters… And by midnight it happened again I am an avid bettor And this was the weirdest betting experience of my life Like I said I was given back my $5000 after all the crazy ***** and I’m not lying FYI I have a feeling I’m one of the most patriotic people here… Because I root for America… That means every American president I see a lot of Hatred towards political parties in this thread… That’s what the people in charge want… A house divided cannot stand Can you all say you rooted for Trump and Biden, And bush and Obama etc Because who would want our beautiful country to fail Edited December 28, 2022 by Buffalo716 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 49 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: You missed my entire point then Besides when there’s a recount we always know who wins by the next day for the last 20-30 +years And gore did not concede until the Supreme Court decision… He conceded defeat in December after the Supreme Court decision It went to the Supreme Court because he refused to concede… And it was within the margin When is a concession a concession? Quote Well after midnight, the television networks then called Florida (and with it the presidency) for Texas Governor George W. Bush, and then several hours later – still before morning – retracted that projection. Somewhere along the way, Gore called Bush twice, once to concede and once to retract that concession. https://teachingamericanhistory.org/blog/the-timing-of-al-gores-concession-in-2000/ I still maintain a concession doesn't mean sqwat. If a candidate concedes and then turns out to be the winner, he/she is still the winner. They don't stop counting when someone concedes. Nor should they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 (edited) 34 minutes ago, ChiGoose said: I don’t think we have the same opinion of the committee. I also don’t think the decision to focus on Trump was part of a coverup. I think it was a decision made likely to either keep Cheney from publicly splitting from the committee and/or because making it about Trump gets the headlines and will draw more eyes to the report. It seems like everyone likes to jump to dastardly conclusions but the truth is more likely to be fairly mundane. It wasn’t my contention, Chi, it was yours. You said the rumor was that “Cheney didn’t want to go hard after GOPers”. What “fairly mundane” actions by GOPers would result in the 1/6 committee “going hard” after anyone? No parking pass displayed in the Congressional lot? Leaving dirty dishes in the Congressional sink? That notion in an of itself reeks of political shenanigans. Why would Thompson want to pursue mundane issues to begin with? Silly internal squabbles would just detract from the work of the committee. We were told this work was vitally important, and that this went beyond Dem and Rep politics and what mattered was the truth. Liz Cheney has been anything but a shrinking violet here, now you seem to be suggesting that failure to acquiesce to her demands might have caused her to fracture the work of the committee? Would she sell out the truth in exchange for political leverage, or even threaten to do so? I’m still confused by what’s in this for Thompson if the truth was his goal. He easily could have outed Cheney if she was strong arming him. If, as you suggest, the political committee acted politically to protect some members of Congress while targeting others, the entire body of work is suspect. What an interesting turn of events. Edited December 28, 2022 by leh-nerd skin-erd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted December 28, 2022 Share Posted December 28, 2022 38 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: You are using jargon… And we are in an advanced Enough society that we should be able to count mail in votes quickly too… and all votes…There’s no reason for what happened … We Are the greatest country in the world… Count mail in votes first and make them all be in by election day… Easy Peezy lemon squeezy My point stands… That except for Recounts … America always knows the president well before a week You can go to bed at 2 AM after election night… And the world will know who the American president will be… If not you will know by noon the next day Except in rare circumstances It was a funky election… I’m not saying theft , cheat, … I’m saying funky Trump was up so big when everybody went to bed at 1 AM… Vegas had him as a huge favorite… Then America wakes up to Biden leading… And then it gets funky for 2 months In fact my online bookie paid me back my 5000 bet on the presidential election because funk… that doesn’t happen… EVER Yes I bet on politics because I’m a gambling addict lol Is Vegas always right? Vegas favored the 2007 Patriots by 12 over the Giants. Who won? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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