There should be a national dialogue in getting back to work

[Buffalo_Gal]

9 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Even if it were proven good luck in getting 1B dollars.  We should become a nation of trial lawyers as the work would be endless if that suit succeeded.

I wonder if this goes away if there is a liability exemption in the new stimulus bill? (Whenever that happens.)

 

[Chef Jim]

13 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Even if it were proven good luck in getting 1B dollars.  We should become a nation of trial lawyers as the work would be endless if that suit succeeded.

 

I didn't even touch the $1b because I felt that stupidity went without saying.  Who did they hire Saul Goodman?  

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

I wonder if this goes away if there is a liability exemption in the new stimulus bill? (Whenever that happens.)

 

 

There should be.  I know our company is walking on egg shells and going through all sorts of hoops to cover our asses with people coming back to work.  As of now it's 100% voluntary.  

[oldmanfan]

38 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

We need a sarc tag. ?

So, a mask study from 2015, before there is any type of agenda, is bad?

 

Stop with the agenda stuff, please, and let's discuss rationally.  This virus can be carried by those asymptomatic and is transmitted by droplets.  The idea behind wearing masks is to help the wearer from spreading droplets. 

 

The masks do not completely prevent, they help.  Distancing does not completely prevent, it helps.  And so on.  These policies have helped hold things down, they don't prevent.  They help while we get to a vaccine and more effective treatments.

8 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

I didn't even touch the $1b because I felt that stupidity went without saying.  Who did they hire Saul Goodman?  

 

There should be.  I know our company is walking on egg shells and going through all sorts of hoops to cover our asses with people coming back to work.  As of now it's 100% voluntary.  

I would agree wit h a liability waiver  And if I were a company I'd go with the recommended precautions.

[shoshin]

58 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

And masks? ***** that. Here the NIH mask study again. N95 work, the rest? Nawwwww And RID chips? Super duper ***** that. "Get used to more intrusion!" ***** that.



 

Still citing a study that tracked whether HCWs working full time in hospitals got sick after wearing cloth masks to justify your discomfort with hot and itchy masks?

 

You still don’t understand the purpose of the masks. It’s to prevent your expulsion of virus to keep others safe. Its probably been said by about 10,000 scientists so far. 
 

 I can list the studies *again* if you want that show why masks are important to prevent disease SPREAD. And yes they predate Covid. 
 

 

 

13 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

They help while we get to a vaccine and more effective treatments.

 

There’s a movement afoot here to avoid the vaccine because “science.” 

[RochesterRob]

19 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

I wonder if this goes away if there is a liability exemption in the new stimulus bill? (Whenever that happens.)

 

  I doubt it happens.  A majority of DC politicians are lawyers and they are not going to strangle a potential revenue stream.  They have drawn about as much cash as they can hope to get from the Catholic Church as the commercials that used to shrill about pedophile priests now shrill about pedophile scout leaders and pedophile teachers.  Soon the scouts and schools will be picked clean so that leaves business that has not been touched to this point to be harvested.  Tort reform on a national level is long overdue.  Not every priest nor scout leader was a pedophile but we sat back and watched the feeding frenzy as long as it was something we did not care for.  The free for all torts need to end before it helps finish off this country as we know it.

[Reality Check]

2 minutes ago, shoshin said:

Still citing a study that tracked whether HCWs working full time in hospitals got sick after wearing cloth masks to justify your discomfort with hot and itchy masks?

 

You still don’t understand the purpose of the masks. It’s to prevent your expulsion of virus to keep others safe. Its probably been said by about 10,000 scientists so far. 
 

 I can list the studies *again* if you want that show why masks are important to prevent disease SPREAD. And yes they predate Covid. 
 

 

 

...whatever dude. Are these the same studies that said we would be under water soon due to 'climate change". In an unsterile environment, you are simply wearing germ collectors on your face.

[Buffalo_Gal]

6 minutes ago, shoshin said:

Still citing a study that tracked whether HCWs working full time in hospitals got sick after wearing cloth masks to justify your discomfort with hot and itchy masks?

 

You still don’t understand the purpose of the masks. It’s to prevent your expulsion of virus to keep others safe. Its probably been said by about 10,000 scientists so far. 
 

 I can list the studies *again* if you want that show why masks are important to prevent disease SPREAD. And yes they predate Covid. 

I understand perfectly the purpose of masks. It is a cross between making the natives think they are doing something (with a placebo) and making the natives compliant.

If masks worked the wonder you are advocating, this never would have spread in China - where the vast majority has been wearing masks daily for nearly 20 years.



 

[Trump_is_Mentally_fit]

Just hold your stupid rallies, who is stopping them???  Wow, so stupid. 

If they want to hold their rallies NO ONE IS STOPPING THEM! 

Quote

 

Eric Trump suggested on Fox News Saturday that Democrats are "milking" coronavirus lockdowns in order to "deprive" his father President Trump of campaign rallies and hurt him in November's election.

What he's saying: "They think they are taking away Donald Trump's greatest tool, which is being able to go into an arena and fill it with 50,000 people every single time. You watch, they'll milk it every single day between now and Nov. 3. And guess what, after Nov. 3 coronavirus will magically all of a sudden go away and disappear and everybody will be able to reopen."

 

https://www.axios.com/eric-trump-democrats-coronavirus-c040253e-80ae-4cb7-a610-2b4ebf2c3cfa.html

[B-Man]

 

IRISH DEMOCRACY:

 

 

 

 

 

UPDATE: Americans stopped the economy, not politicians. And we will restart it.

 

In the case of the lockdowns, it is important to realize that people were out in front of closing down the economy. The evidence is pretty clear that we began withdrawing well before governments at all levels turned practice into legal decrees. Schools, restaurants, gyms, and houses of worship began to close or move to virtual before they were mandated to do so. Cell phone data indicate that people began to practice social distancing and forms of quarantine before governments acted.

 

We stopped the economy, not the politicians. And we will restart it.

 

That restart will happen when people believe that engaging in various forms of economic activity is sufficiently safe. Those beliefs will be a combination of their assessment of the virus and their confidence in what firms are doing to make going to stores, restaurants, and the like hospitable and safe.

 

 

Looks like it’s happening.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Trump_is_Mentally_fit]

Is Trump going to lead the way and hold rallies??

[RochesterRob]

5 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

IRISH DEMOCRACY:

 

 

 

 

 

UPDATE: Americans stopped the economy, not politicians. And we will restart it.

 

In the case of the lockdowns, it is important to realize that people were out in front of closing down the economy. The evidence is pretty clear that we began withdrawing well before governments at all levels turned practice into legal decrees. Schools, restaurants, gyms, and houses of worship began to close or move to virtual before they were mandated to do so. Cell phone data indicate that people began to practice social distancing and forms of quarantine before governments acted.

 

We stopped the economy, not the politicians. And we will restart it.

 

That restart will happen when people believe that engaging in various forms of economic activity is sufficiently safe. Those beliefs will be a combination of their assessment of the virus and their confidence in what firms are doing to make going to stores, restaurants, and the like hospitable and safe.

 

 

Looks like it’s happening.

 

 

 

 

 

 

  I hate to be a Negative Ned but at least in NY if Cuomo, De Blasio, and other ranking Dems believe that the votes are behind them will start pulling licenses, fining non-compliant entities, etc. for offenders to their edicts.  Might be different in Michigan as there are probably enough voters including those that would cross party lines to send Whitmer and any loyal followers packing. 

[shoshin]

21 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

If masks worked the wonder you are advocating, this never would have spread in China - where the vast majority has been wearing masks daily for nearly 20 years.
 

 

Wearing masks does not stop spread, it slows it. And China has slowed its spread and they have 1.5B people living on top of each other in ways we cannot imagine. Korea, Hong Kong, and Japan have also slowed their spread.

 

For more believable data in a mask-wearing country, look to Japan and in particular Tokyo, which has 38 million people and very few cases. Clearly societal decisions can make a big difference.

 

We are not particularly hygienic and don't wear masks in public. Masks help. But they are hot and itchy and annoying.

[RochesterRob]

1 minute ago, shoshin said:

 

Wearing masks does not stop spread, it slows it. And China has slowed its spread and they have 1.5B people living on top of each other in ways we cannot imagine. Korea, Hong Kong, and Japan have also slowed their spread.

 

For more believable data in a mask-wearing country, look to Japan and in particular Tokyo, which has 38 million people and very few cases. Clearly societal decisions can make a big difference.

 

We are not particularly hygienic and don't wear masks in public. Masks help. But they are hot and itchy and annoying.

  Japanese borders with respect to China are far from being very open and have been that way for quite a long time.

10 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Is Trump going to lead the way and hold rallies??

  So what time is your commies of WNY rally just so I can avoid the area?

[Buffalo_Gal]

1 minute ago, shoshin said:

 

Wearing masks does not stop spread, it slows it. And China has slowed its spread and they have 1.5B people living on top of each other in ways we cannot imagine. Korea, Hong Kong, and Japan have also slowed their spread.

 

For more believable data in a mask-wearing country, look to Japan and in particular Tokyo, which has 38 million people and very few cases. Clearly societal decisions can make a big difference.

 

We are not particularly hygienic and don't wear masks in public. Masks help. But they are hot and itchy and annoying.

You are annoying, but I still deal with you. ?

China's numbers will never be known.  I see we are now moving from masks stopping the spread to masks slowing the spread ... is this like 2 weeks at home to stop the spread? Two months later, we are getting masks will slow it. What next? RID chips to tell where you have been so you can be notified if someone surrounding you gets it? Oh wait! That is what is now being pushed.

Compliance buddy. That is all this is. You must obey all authority, no matter what.

 

[Chef Jim]

54 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

I would agree wit h a liability waiver  And if I were a company I'd go with the recommended precautions.

Of course the waiver protects both the employee and the employer. 

[Trump_is_Mentally_fit]

8 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Japanese borders with respect to China are far from being very open and have been that way for quite a long time.

  So what time is your commies of WNY rally just so I can avoid the area?

Oh, do you leave the trailer park often? 

[Chef Jim]

20 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Is Trump going to lead the way and hold rallies??

Lead the way?  What do you mean?  

[RochesterRob]

Just now, Tiberius said:

Oh, do you leave the trailer park often? 

  I have to go there to do meals on wheels (voluntarily) for guys like you.  

[GG]

43 minutes ago, Reality Check said:

...whatever dude. Are these the same studies that said we would be under water soon due to 'climate change". In an unsterile environment, you are simply wearing germ collectors on your face.

 

In this one he’s right.  It’s silly to use the results of this specific study to argue against wearing masks in recommended settings during the pandemic.

 

The study was done specifically to identify the effectiveness of improvised PPE for healthcare workers in highly contagious environments with high concentrations of infectious disease in the airstream.   In that case, the cloth masks weren’t effective, but neither were low grade medical masks.

 

Of course that means very little to the suggestion that masks should be worn when ordinary people are going to be in indoor spaces with other people around them at a reasonable proximity.  The guidance assumes that there’s ample distance between people and the space is more open than a hospital room or a tent.

 

If people took the same amount of time to learn about proper techniques to wear masks or even ways to improve on cloth masks (hint, add a cheap filter in the lining), this wouldn’t be an issue.

 

I don’t need clinical studies to know that wearing masks is effective.  Hundreds of millions of Asians have blocked the flow of this virus by wearing masks, because it’s in their culture.  I’ll take that evidence over any crackpot theory that the suggestion to wear masks is part of some conspiracy for mind control.

 

The only reason that CDC didn’t advise wearing masks early on is they knew that Americans who aren’t used to wearing masks, would botch the recommendations and possibly make things worse.  In retrospect it was the wrong advice, because the spread grew in the worst place possible and now people think there’s an anterior motive for mask wearing guidance since CDC didn’t come out with those suggestions in the first place.

[Reality Check]

3 minutes ago, GG said:

 

In this one he’s right.  It’s silly to use the results of this specific study to argue against wearing masks in recommended settings during the pandemic.

 

The study was done specifically to identify the effectiveness of improvised PPE for healthcare workers in highly contagious environments with high concentrations of infectious disease in the airstream.   In that case, the cloth masks weren’t effective, but neither were low grade medical masks.

 

Of course that means very little to the suggestion that masks should be worn when ordinary people are going to be in indoor spaces with other people around them at a reasonable proximity.  The guidance assumes that there’s ample distance between people and the space is more open than a hospital room or a tent.

 

If people took the same amount of time to learn about proper techniques to wear masks or even ways to improve on cloth masks (hint, add a cheap filter in the lining), this wouldn’t be an issue.

 

I don’t need clinical studies to know that wearing masks is effective.  Hundreds of millions of Asians have blocked the flow of this virus by wearing masks, because it’s in their culture.  I’ll take that evidence over any crackpot theory that the suggestion to wear masks is part of some conspiracy for mind control.

 

The only reason that CDC didn’t advise wearing masks early on is they knew that Americans who aren’t used to wearing masks, would botch the recommendations and possibly make things worse.  In retrospect it was the wrong advice, because the spread grew in the worst place possible and now people think there’s an anterior motive for mask wearing guidance since CDC didn’t come out with those suggestions in the first place.

There is no pandemic. You wear whatever you like, and I will do the same.