GunnerBill Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 9 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Interesting to note that the example you offered of Allen’s lack of passing is from a game that was played in 50 MPH wind gusts when the opposing QB threw for 172 yards For the record, the Bills produced 53 yards of offense that didn’t come from Josh Allen. The Eagles had two RBs that each produced more than that on the ground. Sometimes context matters. Yea we lost that game on the ground. Allen was not great but him not passing for 300 yards was definitively not the reason we lost that game. Beaten up front on both sides of the ball. 2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: It’s funny. I’ve been accused by some of incorrectly stating there are people on this board who do not want to see Allen succeed. To all of you, here you go. Where does he say he doesn't want Allen to succeed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBillsFan Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: It’s funny. I’ve been accused by some of incorrectly stating there are people on this board who do not want to see Allen succeed. To all of you, here you go. ***Reading Is Fundamental Note*** He just said he only wanted Allen to be better. Where in the world did he state he wanted Allen not to succeed? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: Yea we lost that game on the ground. Allen was not great but him not passing for 300 yards was definitively not the reason we lost that game. Beaten up front on both sides of the ball. Where does he say he doesn't want Allen to succeed? Go back through his stuff. It’s possible I’m saying this wrong. Would you not agree there are some here who do nothing but focus on the kid’s negatives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Interesting to note that the example you offered of Allen’s lack of passing is from a game that was played in 50 MPH wind gusts when the opposing QB threw for 172 yards Allen had 6 games under 200 yards in 2019...one of which was 160 yards at home against the Redskins... Against the same Redskins team, rookie Daniel Jones threw for 352 yards and 5 tds... Edited April 15, 2020 by JaCrispy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 Just now, oldmanfan said: Go back through his stuff. It’s possible I’m saying this wrong. Would you not agree there are some here who do nothing but focus on the kid’s negatives? I'd say there are people who are naturally glass half empty types, yep. But I don't think a guy who sets out what his criteria for success would be can be classed as a guy only interested in Josh failing. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 1 minute ago, BigBillsFan said: ***Reading Is Fundamental Note*** He just said he only wanted Allen to be better. Where in the world did he state he wanted Allen not to succeed? See above. If I come off too harsh my apologies. But if folks around here cannot see there are people who want to only focus on negatives with respect to Allen then you’re just not reading. We all know he has to continue improving. He improved from year 1 to year 2. Why think he can’t improve year 2 to year 3? 2 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: Allen had 6 games under 200 yards in 2019...one of which was 160 yards at home against the Redskins... Against the same Redskins team, rookie Daniel Jones threw for 352 yards and 5 tds... And? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistofFate Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: It’s funny. I’ve been accused by some of incorrectly stating there are people on this board who do not want to see Allen succeed. To all of you, here you go. Well, you've been accused because you are wrong, clearly. Just as you are clearly wrong again. Quite frankly, I find your accusations offensive and personally attacking. I said nothing of wanting Allen to fail, nor even hinted to it. This thread is about expectations and what we expect to see out of our Qb this season, who's been dubbed our franchise Qb. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 1 minute ago, JaCrispy said: Allen had 6 games under 200 yards in 2019...one of which was 160 yards at home against the Redskins... Against the same Redskins team, rookie Daniel Jones three for 352 yards and 5 tds... The Washington game where the Bills only threw it 20 times? I hated that game as much as the next man but that was on conservative gameplan not on Josh and hey... they did what it took to win against a bad team. But I wanted them to go for the jugular more that day. Was the most boring game of the season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 Just now, TwistofFate said: Well, you've been accused because you are wrong, clearly. Just as you are clearly wrong again. Quite frankly, I find your accusations offensive and personally attacking. I said nothing of wanting Allen to fail, nor even hinted to it. This thread is about expectations and what we expect to see out of our Qb this season, who's been dubbed our franchise Qb. My apologies. I would say it’s a fair criticism that you focus only on negatives regarding Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: See above. If I come off too harsh my apologies. But if folks around here cannot see there are people who want to only focus on negatives with respect to Allen then you’re just not reading. We all know he has to continue improving. He improved from year 1 to year 2. Why think he can’t improve year 2 to year 3? And? Bandit was blaming the wind in the Philly game for his low output...additional game log stats seem to show Allen had low output even when wind was no factor... Edited April 15, 2020 by JaCrispy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 12 minutes ago, TwistofFate said: Please, I can't anymore excuses for Allen. He was drafted because of his "big arm" to play in buffalo wind. He was just terrible in that game. Between the fumbles and horrible passes it was practically unwatchable. There are many other examples, pick one. Yes, there are other examples. Pick one of them to avoid looking silly for knocking a WB not throwing for 300 yards in a hurricane. 8 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: I thought Allen was terrible regardless of the wind. Yes, Wentz didn't throw for much or have a great game but he completed a couple big passes throughout.... Allen went like 3/13 for 7 yards after the Singlerary TD. He was awful. He wasn’t good. But that argument was atrocious. 3 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: Allen had 6 games under 200 yards in 2019...one of which was 160 yards at home against the Redskins... Against the same Redskins team, rookie Daniel Jones threw for 352 yards and 5 tds... Yes, that’s sort of the point. Going to the worst possible example is a brutal method of arguing. As to the Redskins game, it’s kind of the exact opposite of the Eagles game; Allen only had to throw the ball 20 times, and was quite efficient doing so. Jones, on the other hand, had to throw 42 times because their D allowed 35 points to Dwayne Haskins and Case Keenum. 3 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: Bandit was blaming the wind in the Philly game for his low output...additional game log stats seem to show Allen had low output even when wind was no factor... So I should mark you down as someone that believes a 300 yard passing day is a reasonable expectation with 50 MPH winds? Got it. Just so you know, that’s stupid. Also, I agreed with you that there were other examples. That’s why the Philly game was such a ridiculous example. This isn’t a complicated issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 Just now, JaCrispy said: Bandit was blaming the wind in the Philly game for his low output...additional game log stats seem to show otherwise... Want me to pull games where Allen was good and Jones was bad? Shall we play this game? This is all very simple. Allen is going into his third year. He improved from year 1 to year 2. There is no reason right now to suspect he won’t continue improving from year 2 to year 3. None of us will know till the games start. But if you’re assuming he won’t get better then you must have a reason why. So explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Want me to pull games where Allen was good and Jones was bad? Shall we play this game? This is all very simple. Allen is going into his third year. He improved from year 1 to year 2. There is no reason right now to suspect he won’t continue improving from year 2 to year 3. None of us will know till the games start. But if you’re assuming he won’t get better then you must have a reason why. So explain. No need to pull up Jones’ stats...I actually thought he had a better rookie season than Allen’s sophomore season...and, imo, he has already proven he is much more efficient as a passer- even with Allen’s improvements... And that really says something because that’s how low Allen’s bar was...Next year Allen’s goal is to show he can be as efficient as Jones’ rookie season... If he can do that, I will start to think maybe we have a chance at something...I remain cautiously hopeful though... Edited April 15, 2020 by JaCrispy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 1 minute ago, JaCrispy said: No need to pull up Jones’ stats...I actually thought he had a better rookie season than Allen’s sophomore season...and, imo, he has already proven he is much more efficient as a passer... Ok, another example. Focus only on negatives of the Bills QB and extol the other guy. I posted earlier this week, this stuff has gone on with Bills fans since 1960. The other guy is always better. Have fun wallowing in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistofFate Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 1 minute ago, oldmanfan said: Want me to pull games where Allen was good and Jones was bad? Shall we play this game? This is all very simple. Allen is going into his third year. He improved from year 1 to year 2. There is no reason right now to suspect he won’t continue improving from year 2 to year 3. None of us will know till the games start. But if you’re assuming he won’t get better then you must have a reason why. So explain. You'd be hard-pressed to find many. Jones threw for multiple 300-yard passing games last season as well as multiple touchdowns in games as a rookie. These stats are about individual performance. Im well over Allens last season, and really don't care to rehash it, it's been tossed around enough and its water under the bridge. Im solely focused on this season. The big year 3. What is he going to do, what is he expected to do, and has this front office attempted everything they could to put Allen in a position to actually reach the expectations? These are questions im after, thats what I want to discuss. I believe my expectations for him are not radical. I believe this front office is doing everything they can to make Allen succeed. I believe he has the best weapons around him this year than any Qb we've had in the last 20 years. I believe its a make it or break it year. He needs a pretty darn good jump to validate the belief he is the franchise Qb of the Buffalo Bills. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Ok, another example. Focus only on negatives of the Bills QB and extol the other guy. I posted earlier this week, this stuff has gone on with Bills fans since 1960. The other guy is always better. Have fun wallowing in this. Like I said, I remain cautiously hopeful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, TwistofFate said: Completion % above 60% 2 or more 300+ yard games 3800+ yards on the season 24+ Tds Qb rating of 90 or higher. Definitely should be reachable targets: + 1.2% completion 190 ypg to 240 ypg +4 passing TD’s +5 points in QB rating I also would like to see some games over 300 yards passing. The Bills gave him 46 attempts in Houston. Those numbers would place Allen at the upper end of a game manager QB, meaning the game script would require Bills defense to clamp down on the opponent and keep points at 18 and below. A measurement that needs improvement is offensive ppg. Last year the Bills scored 19 ppg. The defense allowed 16 ppg. And in the biggest games, Patriots x2, Ravens, Texans, the Bills offense came up one TD short with drives at the end of the game to win. Four more passing TDs from Allen would be +2 ppg and that would give the defense a little more wiggle room to allow 18 ppg (assuming similar rushing TDs per for the whole team). Edited April 15, 2020 by Straight Hucklebuck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 1 minute ago, TwistofFate said: You'd be hard-pressed to find many. Jones threw for multiple 300-yard passing games last season as well as multiple touchdowns in games as a rookie. These stats are about individual performance. Im well over Allens last season, and really don't care to rehash it, it's been tossed around enough and its water under the bridge. Im solely focused on this season. The big year 3. What is he going to do, what is he expected to do, and has this front office attempted everything they could to put Allen in a position to actually reach the expectations? These are questions im after, thats what I want to discuss. I believe my expectations for him are not radical. I believe this front office is doing everything they can to make Allen succeed. I believe he has the best weapons around him this year than any Qb we've had in the last 20 years. I believe its a make it or break it year. He needs a pretty darn good jump to validate the belief he is the franchise Qb of the Buffalo Bills. Yes they have. Diggs helps. O line continuity helps. Again, we all agree Allen needs to continue the improvement he has shown thus far in his career. Why do you think he won’t? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 4 hours ago, TwistofFate said: Completion % above 60% 2 or more 300+ yard games 3800+ yards on the season 24+ Tds Qb rating of 90 or higher. If he is a real franchise guy, these are numbers I expect. He's got the coaching staff, the weapons, and the continuity. No excuses this year. This is the year to prove you are the man and you've arrived. If he fails to take a substantial step forward, OBD needs to seriously evaluate the position and their options next off-season. Why is this the year? What if 2020 and 2021 are just like 2019 and 2022-2029 are as you request. Why does it have to happen in 2020? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Shaw66 said: Why is this the year? What if 2020 and 2021 are just like 2019 and 2022-2029 are as you request. Why does it have to happen in 2020? Because. Just because. No logical reason. Just like people harp on having to have a 300 yard game, and when he does it won’t be enough. Or when his completion percentage goes over 60% the criteria will magically be 65%. Shaw, you’ve been around a long time, long as me I suspect. You know the game; the QB we have is never good enough. Either the back up is better or if that doesn’t work then our guy gets compared to any other QB in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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