The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, redtail hawk said:

yes, remember how quickly a safe and effective vaccine was developed and later an oral treatment.  Remember that ARD's was quickly observed to be a leading mechanism of death by the virus and that prone positioning and steroids helped saved lives.  I could go on but why waste the time.  Remember that that thirst heal led to the deaths of many health care workers...

And remember how it was a pandemic of the unvaccinated.. .until suddenly and magically it wasn’t! 

[The Frankish Reich]

18 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

great quote...and of course, we are all taught just the opposite excepting academic centers where zebras are more prevalent.  I find it very strange that Doc won't read the linked article.  Unquenchable thirst for knowledge is a near prerequisite for med school and later for practice.  Maybe he had it and lost it.  Maybe he never had it.  Maybe he's an MD.  Maybe not.  Doesn't really matter x for the misrepresentation of credentials/training if not.  Perhaps I'm cynical and overly skeptical but MAGA's and their leaders have often been proven dishonest.

I realize I typed it wrong: think horses, not zebras is the line.

But again: Wuhan was filled with pangolins, civet cats, all kind of bizarro mammals. So it isn't exactly "why do we see all these new viral cases clustered around Wegman's meat counter."

[Joe Ferguson forever]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

And remember how it was a pandemic of the unvaccinated.. .until suddenly and magically it wasn’t! 

when did that happen?  link?

meanwhile I'll search for models with estimates of unnecessary deaths because of the stupid, selfish people.

[BillsFanNC]

Just now, JDHillFan said:

The science is settled!

 

 

Anyone who has gone through the peer review process with more mundane research papers knows how long the process takes.

 

But a novel SARS coronavirus pandemic and it's case closed in a few weeks.

 

Shut up about anything else not in line with what we've decreed from on high.

 

And Follow The Science (TM) is born.

 

Beyond laughable.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

5 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I realize I typed it wrong: think horses, not zebras is the line.

But again: Wuhan was filled with pangolins, civet cats, all kind of bizarro mammals. So it isn't exactly "why do we see all these new viral cases clustered around Wegman's meat counter."

It's ok here.  probably not if you're defending a doc in court!  Have heard it and taught it a hundred times or more.  Any real doc will recognize it immediately...

 

 

excess deaths:  at least 232,000 in the US

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37093505/

Edited July 31, 2023 by redtail hawk

[JDHillFan]

9 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

who said that in regards to Covid...x of course, all knowing, all seeing Doc.

The people that declared anyone not wanting the vax, including not wanting it for young children at virtually no risk, to be stupid and selfish? Maybe dumbasses like that are the ones. 

[SoCal Deek]

3 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

when did that happen?  link?

meanwhile I'll search for models with estimates of unnecessary deaths because of the stupid, selfish people.

Link? You have honestly got to be kidding! There isn’t a single person in America that didn’t know a close family member who contracted Covid after being vaccinated and boosted. I don’t need some stupid internet link to see what’s happening in my own freaking life! 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

3 minutes ago, JDHillFan said:

The people that declared anyone not wanting the vax, including not wanting it for young children at virtually no risk, to be stupid and selfish? Maybe dumbasses like that are the ones. 

kids died from covid too.  And certainly acted as vectors for the virus.  

3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Link? You have honestly got to be kidding! There isn’t a single person in America that didn’t know a close family member who contracted Covid after being vaccinated and boosted. I don’t need some stupid internet link to see what’s happening in my own freaking life! 

you do to see excess deaths from the unvaxed.  not a stupid internet link.  It's SCIENCE.  rarely settled but still extremely useful and the best we got.  Here, try some, 232000 at least....

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37093505/

Edited July 31, 2023 by redtail hawk

[BillsFanNC]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

Link? You have honestly got to be kidding! There isn’t a single person in America that didn’t know a close family member who contracted Covid after being vaccinated and boosted. I don’t need some stupid internet link to see what’s happening in my own freaking life! 

 

Twice vaccinated.

 

Then...

 

Twice confirmed covid positive by both PCR and rapid antigen tests each time.

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

kids died from covid too.  And certainly acted as vectors for the virus.  

you do to see excess deaths from the untaxed.  not a stupid internet link.  It's SCIENCE.  rarely settled but still extremely useful and the best we got.  Here, try some

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37093505/

You wouldn’t know science if it bit you in the arse…..but I did get a kick out of the ‘untaxed’ autocorrect. 😉. If BillsFanNC wants to work on the board’s functionality; he should make autocorrect task #1. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

9 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Link? You have honestly got to be kidding! There isn’t a single person in America that didn’t know a close family member who contracted Covid after being vaccinated and boosted. I don’t need some stupid internet link to see what’s happening in my own freaking life! 

here's another very salient link with raw data comparing deaths in different age groups for vaxed vs unvaxed but no doubt, you will refuse to accept the numbers

https://data.cdc.gov/Public-Health-Surveillance/Rates-of-COVID-19-Cases-or-Deaths-by-Age-Group-and/3rge-nu2a/data

 

Why do you MAGA's hate science and data ?  My guess is because you don't understand it, are untrained in it and see it as "elite".  That, or you really don't care about truth or your fellow man.

Edited July 31, 2023 by redtail hawk

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

here's another very salient link with raw data comparing deaths in different age groups for vaxed vs unvaxed but no doubt, you will refuse to accept the numbers

https://data.cdc.gov/Public-Health-Surveillance/Rates-of-COVID-19-Cases-or-Deaths-by-Age-Group-and/3rge-nu2a/data

So now you want to say it’s about deaths not contraction. You’ll note I didn’t say that it wasn’t effective against death. I’m sure it probably was. FYI: I was both vaccinated and boosted. 

[BillsFanNC]

Here's what the leaders could have said instead of:

 

"If you get the vaccine you won't get covid"

 

The original papers on the mRNA vaccines only showed 95% efficacy for heavens sake!

 

So they could have been HONEST, and just said:

 

The vaccine, while not a guarantee against infection, can still be beneficial as it's been shown to reduce symptom severity. This is especially important for elderly, immunocompromised and those with chronic conditions who are known to be at higher risk of severe outcomes.

 

People who are among healthy younger populations should discuss with their healthcare provider as to their personal choice whether to get the vaccine or not.

 

But they didn't do that at all.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

You wouldn’t know science if it bit you in the arse

I'll take the opinion of those enlisted to give diplomas and publish papers over some random internet "expert".

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

So now you want to say it’s about deaths not contraction. You’ll note I didn’t say that it wasn’t effective against death. I’m sure it probably was. FYI: I was both vaccinated and boosted. 

Less deaths=contraction, non?  weren't less deaths at least part of the goal of "contraction" as you call it?   Wouldn't less deaths have been a good outcome?

[BillsFanNC]

 

@redtail hawk Quack MD

 

It's SCIENCE.  rarely settled but still extremely useful and the best we got

 

 

Except when we have a novel coronavirus pandemic. Then the science is settled in a few weeks.

 

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, redtail hawk said:

I'll take the opinion of those enlisted to give diplomas and publish papers over some random internet "expert".

I slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night. 😉 

 

(And you’ll have to forgive me if I go with opinion of my own close family member who I GUARANTEE has more diplomas and published papers than you’re able to google.)

[Joe Ferguson forever]

6 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

Here's what the leaders could have said instead of:

 

"If you get the vaccine you won't get covid"

 

The original papers on the mRNA vaccines only showed 95% efficacy for heavens sake!

 

So they could have been HONEST, and just said:

 

The vaccine, while not a guarantee against infection, can still be beneficial as it's been shown to reduce symptom severity. This is especially important for elderly, immunocompromised and those with chronic conditions who are known to be at higher risk of severe outcomes.

 

People who are among healthy younger populations should discuss with their healthcare provider as to their personal choice whether to get the vaccine or not.

 

But they didn't do that at all.

Have you read the package insert for the vaxes?

No actual expert ever claimed 100% effectiveness and recs were very similar to what you said.  remember when the vax was in short supply.  The groups you mentioned and health care workers were the only ones who could get the vax.

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night. 😉 

 

(And you’ll have to forgive me if I go with opinion of my own close family member who I GUARANTEE has more diplomas and published papers than you’re able to google.)

good.  so they know science when it bites them in the ass...they should school you....what you describe is anecdote, not useless but not particularly useful especially when massive amounts of actual data is available

Edited July 31, 2023 by redtail hawk

[Joe Ferguson forever]

10 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

 

@redtail hawk Quack MD

 

It's SCIENCE.  rarely settled but still extremely useful and the best we got

 

 

Except when we have a novel coronavirus pandemic. Then the science is settled in a few weeks.

 

Rarely settled.  I stand by that quote.  I'm not the one on this board rthat pushed unproven treatments based on limited, poorly done studies.  In fact, I said just the opposite...

[BillsFanNC]

How about those enlisted to give diplomas and publish papers from crappy institutions like Harvard,  Stanford and Oxford @redtail hawk?

 

Were you ok with this group being silenced?

 

Seems like they had a very well reasoned and scientifically sound way to approach the pandemic from a public health perspective. 

 

Do you have a true unquenchable thirst for information and knowledge....or not really?

 

https://gbdeclaration.org

 

The Great Barrington Declaration – As infectious disease epidemiologists and public health scientists we have grave concerns about the damaging physical and mental health impacts of the prevailing COVID-19 policies, and recommend an approach we call Focused Protection. 

 

Coming from both the left and right, and around the world, we have devoted our careers to protecting people. Current lockdown policies are producing devastating effects on short and long-term public health. The results (to name a few) include lower childhood vaccination rates, worsening cardiovascular disease outcomes, fewer cancer screenings and deteriorating mental health – leading to greater excess mortality in years to come, with the working class and younger members of society carrying the heaviest burden. Keeping students out of school is a grave injustice. 

Keeping these measures in place until a vaccine is available will cause irreparable damage, with the underprivileged disproportionately harmed.

 

Fortunately, our understanding of the virus is growing. We know that vulnerability to death from COVID-19 is more than a thousand-fold higher in the old and infirm than the young. Indeed, for children, COVID-19 is less dangerous than many other harms, including influenza. 

As immunity builds in the population, the risk of infection to all – including the vulnerable – falls. We know that all populations will eventually reach herd immunity – i.e.  the point at which the rate of new infections is stable – and that this can be assisted by (but is not dependent upon) a vaccine. Our goal should therefore be to minimize mortality and social harm until we reach herd immunity. 

 

The most compassionate approach that balances the risks and benefits of reaching herd immunity, is to allow those who are at minimal risk of death to live their lives normally to build up immunity to the virus through natural infection, while better protecting those who are at highest risk. We call this Focused Protection. 

 

Adopting measures to protect the vulnerable should be the central aim of public health responses to COVID-19. By way of example, nursing homes should use staff with acquired immunity and perform frequent testing of other staff and all visitors. Staff rotation should be minimized. Retired people living at home should have groceries and other essentials delivered to their home. When possible, they should meet family members outside rather than inside. A comprehensive and detailed list of measures, including approaches to multi-generational households, can be implemented, and is well within the scope and capability of public health professionals. 

 

Those who are not vulnerable should immediately be allowed to resume life as normal. Simple hygiene measures, such as hand washing and staying home when sick should be practiced by everyone to reduce the herd immunity threshold. Schools and universities should be open for in-person teaching. Extracurricular activities, such as sports, should be resumed. Young low-risk adults should work normally, rather than from home. Restaurants and other businesses should open. Arts, music, sport and other cultural activities should resume. People who are more at risk may participate if they wish, while society as a whole enjoys the protection conferred upon the vulnerable by those who have built up herd immunity.

[Joe Ferguson forever]

23 minutes ago, BillsFanNC said:

 

Do you have a true unquenchable thirst for information and knowledge....or not really?

We, in the collective sense of scientists and clinicians, read it and overwhelmingly rejected it, noting it was funded by a libertarian extremist think tank and the science was at best, dubious

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Barrington_Declaration

 

The declaration was sponsored by the American Institute for Economic Research (AIER), a libertarian free market think tank based in Great Barrington, Massachusetts.[39][40] AIER has published controversial studies with dubious conclusions, such as downplaying the risks of climate change,[15][41] and arguing that sweatshops are beneficial to their workers.[42][43] Byline Times journalist Nafeez Ahmed has described the AIER as an "institution embedded in a Koch-funded network that denies climate science while investing in polluting fossil fuel industries".[15]

Signatories

While the authors' website claims that over 14,000 scientists, 40,000 medical practitioners, and more than 800,000 members of the public signed the declaration,[44][45] this list—which anyone could sign online and which required merely clicking a checkbox to claim the status of "scientist"—contains some evidently-fake names, including: "Mr Banana Rama", "Harold Shipman", and "Prof Cominic Dummings".[46][47][48] More than 100 psychotherapists, numerous homeopaths, physiotherapists, massage therapists, and other non-relevant people were found to be signatories, including a performer of Khoomei—a Mongolian style of overtone singing—described as a "therapeutic sound practitioner".[47] An article in The Independent reported that the false signatures put claims about the breadth of support in doubt.[48] Bhattacharya responded by saying that the authors "did not have the resources to audit each signature," and that people had "abused our trust" by adding fake names.[48]

 

Edited July 31, 2023 by redtail hawk