THE ROCKPILE REVIEW - All Part of the Process

[Figster]

14 hours ago, gomper said:

So blowing a 16- 0 lead with 20 minutes to play and having Allen,  the D , and McDermott all taking turns in opening the window is not a collapse? I'll be nice and say we see it differently and leave it at that. 

I know allot of fans are calling the 2nd half of the Texans game a collapse and I can respect the train of thought.  I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here and the truth is somewhere in the middle. Most games have an ebb and flow to them unless its a blowout. Some games that go back and forth the ebb and flow is more frequent, others not so much as is the case of Buffalo''s loss to Houston. 

 

Myself personally,  there are 4 quarters to a football game. If two teams are tied at the end of 4 quarters the Bills didn't collapse any more in the 2nd half then the Texans did in the 1st. As Shaw pointed out stopping Houston with a 3 and out to get the ball back is not a collapse. Coming back to tie ind under two minutes would be considered a collapse on the Texans part.

 

Despite the shock you could see written all over  his face. Josh Allen still doing everything he can with the Buffalo never say die attitude. Fighting for the team that means everything to him.

 

Experience doesn't always go the way you want it to go, you learn from it, and come back to this place in the playoffs one day better prepared.

 

I get that argument,  I really do, I just don't think there's a definitive answer.

 

At least not in my humble opinion gomper

Edited January 6, 2020 by Figster

[Shaw66]

40 minutes ago, Figster said:

I know allot of fans are calling the 2nd half of the Texans game a collapse and I can respect the train of thought.  I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here and the truth is somewhere in the middle. Most games have an ebb and flow to them unless its a blowout. Some games that go back and forth the ebb and flow is more frequent, others not so much as is the case of Buffalo''s loss to Houston. 

 

Myself personally,  there are 4 quarters to a football game. If two teams are tied at the end of 4 quarters the Bills didn't collapse any more in the 2nd half then the Texans did in the 1st. As Shaw pointed out stopping Houston with a 3 and out to get the ball back is not a collapse. Coming back to tie ind under two minutes would be considered a collapse on the Texans part. Despite the shock you could see written on his face. Josh Allen still doing everything he can with the Buffalo never say die attitude. Fighting for the team that means everything to him. Experience doesn't always go the way you want it to go, you learn from it and come back to this place one day better prepared.

 

I get that argument,  I really do, I just don't think there's a definitive answer.

 

At least not in my humble opinion gomper

Right.  And I'll add that the Bills got a three and out from the Texans on their first possession in overtime, and the Bills then drove into range for a game-winning field goal, only to have a very weak or totally wrong call take that away.   So that's two three and outs, a game tying drive and a potential game winning drive.   That's 8 minutes on the clock during the most important part of the game where the Bills were in control.  Systematic collapse simply doesn't apply.  

[gomper]

45 minutes ago, Figster said:

I know allot of fans are calling the 2nd half of the Texans game a collapse and I can respect the train of thought.  I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here and the truth is somewhere in the middle. Most games have an ebb and flow to them unless its a blowout. Some games that go back and forth the ebb and flow is more frequent, others not so much as is the case of Buffalo''s loss to Houston. 

 

Myself personally,  there are 4 quarters to a football game. If two teams are tied at the end of 4 quarters the Bills didn't collapse any more in the 2nd half then the Texans did in the 1st. As Shaw pointed out stopping Houston with a 3 and out to get the ball back is not a collapse. Coming back to tie ind under two minutes would be considered a collapse on the Texans part.

 

Despite the shock you could see written all over  his face. Josh Allen still doing everything he can with the Buffalo never say die attitude. Fighting for the team that means everything to him.

 

Experience doesn't always go the way you want it to go, you learn from it, and come back to this place in the playoffs one day better prepared.

 

I get that argument,  I really do, I just don't think there's a definitive answer.

 

At least not in my humble opinion gomper

I see and respect your point.  I think they choked. It's over now.  Hopefully they all learn from it.

[Figster]

21 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Right.  And I'll add that the Bills got a three and out from the Texans on their first possession in overtime, and the Bills then drove into range for a game-winning field goal, only to have a very weak or totally wrong call take that away.   So that's two three and outs, a game tying drive and a potential game winning drive.   That's 8 minutes on the clock during the most important part of the game where the Bills were in control.  Systematic collapse simply doesn't apply.  

No, probably not, but when the game was over the house of cards fell for many a Bills fan.

 

and for many it felt like a collapse....

[Shaw66]

20 minutes ago, gomper said:

I see and respect your point.  I think they choked. It's over now.  Hopefully they all learn from it.

Hey, Gomper, I think you're right about choking.   I don't know if, as you think, the coaches choked, but the oline choked on the second last series of regulation and left Allen out to dry.  

 

And you could see the look on Allen's face - did anyone else notice how red-faced he was.   The blood was pumpin'.   The play that kills me is the last play from scrimmage, where Allen overthrew Duke.  The bills needed 20 yards to get in field goal range, and the play was a simple 10-yard throw to Duke who, I think, was going to pitch to Singletary coming up the sideline.   It was a good play call.   Allen can make that throw all day, and he air mailed over Duke's head.  It was a total choke.   

 

And your last point is the correct one.  Let's hope they all learned from it. 

1 minute ago, Figster said:

No, probably not, but when the game was over the house of cards fell for many a Bills fan.

 

and for many it felt like a collapse....

True. 

[billspro]

This is going to be an exciting offseason. Hopefully this year is the year they put it all together. 

[Trogdor]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

Hey, Gomper, I think you're right about choking.   I don't know if, as you think, the coaches choked, but the oline choked on the second last series of regulation and left Allen out to dry.  

 

And you could see the look on Allen's face - did anyone else notice how red-faced he was.   The blood was pumpin'.   The play that kills me is the last play from scrimmage, where Allen overthrew Duke.  The bills needed 20 yards to get in field goal range, and the play was a simple 10-yard throw to Duke who, I think, was going to pitch to Singletary coming up the sideline.   It was a good play call.   Allen can make that throw all day, and he air mailed over Duke's head.  It was a total choke.   

 

And your last point is the correct one.  Let's hope they all learned from it. 

True. 

This is true, but is he ever going to learn to get rid of the ball? He held the ball so long in this game that he opened himself up to bad plays. Cody Ford might be the slowest NFL player I've ever seen. He routinely is 1/2 second slower off the snap than everyone else. I think replacing him has to be a priority or my dream of kicking Dawkins over and getting an improvement at LT. 

[Success]

1 hour ago, Figster said:

I know allot of fans are calling the 2nd half of the Texans game a collapse and I can respect the train of thought.  I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here and the truth is somewhere in the middle. Most games have an ebb and flow to them unless its a blowout. Some games that go back and forth the ebb and flow is more frequent, others not so much as is the case of Buffalo''s loss to Houston. 

 

Myself personally,  there are 4 quarters to a football game. If two teams are tied at the end of 4 quarters the Bills didn't collapse any more in the 2nd half then the Texans did in the 1st. As Shaw pointed out stopping Houston with a 3 and out to get the ball back is not a collapse. Coming back to tie ind under two minutes would be considered a collapse on the Texans part.

 

Despite the shock you could see written all over  his face. Josh Allen still doing everything he can with the Buffalo never say die attitude. Fighting for the team that means everything to him.

 

Experience doesn't always go the way you want it to go, you learn from it, and come back to this place in the playoffs one day better prepared.

 

I get that argument,  I really do, I just don't think there's a definitive answer.

 

At least not in my humble opinion gomper

Well stated, and it's nice to see a rational point of view.

 

This was Allen's 1st playoff game, and really the 1st "earned" one for this team.  Given that, they came out as poised as can be, especially on the road against a team that was just about their equal.  Booger kept talking about that (a bit too much for my liking), but their near flawless execution in the 1st half made some of the mistakes of the 2nd half seem more egregious.

 

I've seen "collapse," "choke," "lights were too bright" and all of that. That's not how I saw it.  As Watt said, the Texans just needed a spark, and they got that.  That's how football games are - they reclaimed the momentum in the 2nd half, and held onto it, as a home team probably should.  I can't think of one mistake that we made that really cost us the game.  Everyone makes a big deal out of Allen's lateral, which was alarming & very uncharacteristic, but it didn't change a thing.  Nor did the grounding & sack on the previous drive.

 

It was a 50/50 game, and we came up just short.  There is no rule that when you have a 16-0 lead with close to a half left to play, you win.  And it doesn't mean you "choked" when you lose a game like that. Credit to the Texans for being mentally tough and fighting back.

 

[Buffalo Junction]

Too many stalled drives that resulted in field goals. That’s been an issue all season, and it’s the biggest indicator of an underperforming offense - points aside. Some of that is on Daboll, some on the WRs, some the O Line, and some on Allen. They need more talent and the coaching needs to improve. Daboll cannot broadcast play selection with packages until/unless the talent is at a level where it doesn’t matter. Add 2-4 playmakers at key positions and this team starts winning these types of games consistently. The foundation is built though. That’s an improvement upon the last two decades. 

[Figster]

37 minutes ago, billspro said:

This is going to be an exciting offseason. Hopefully this year is the year they put it all together. 

I agree, there's going to be some high expectations next season with possibly some big changes within the Division.

 

What happens during the offseason and coming up on the next draft will be very interesting...

Edited January 6, 2020 by Figster

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, Success said:

Well stated, and it's nice to see a rational point of view.

 

This was Allen's 1st playoff game, and really the 1st "earned" one for this team.  Given that, they came out as poised as can be, especially on the road against a team that was just about their equal.  Booger kept talking about that (a bit too much for my liking), but their near flawless execution in the 1st half made some of the mistakes of the 2nd half seem more egregious.

 

I've seen "collapse," "choke," "lights were too bright" and all of that. That's not how I saw it.  As Watt said, the Texans just needed a spark, and they got that.  That's how football games are - they reclaimed the momentum in the 2nd half, and held onto it, as a home team probably should.  I can't think of one mistake that we made that really cost us the game.  Everyone makes a big deal out of Allen's lateral, which was alarming & very uncharacteristic, but it didn't change a thing.  Nor did the grounding & sack on the previous drive.

 

It was a 50/50 game, and we came up just short.  There is no rule that when you have a 16-0 lead with close to a half left to play, you win.  And it doesn't mean you "choked" when you lose a game like that. Credit to the Texans for being mentally tough and fighting back.

 

That's nicely said too.   It was a 50/50 game.   Yes, you want your team to make the plays to win, like the play Watson made, but unfortunately they made it and the Bills didn't.  

 

But as I've been saying, and what gets lost in the disappointment of the loss, is that down the stretch the Bills got a three and out, held on fourth down, drove for the tying score, got a three and out in overtime and drove for what should have been a field goal attempt to win the game.   That's high quality stuff from a bunch of guys most of whom have never been in a playoff game.  

[gomper]

5 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Hey, Gomper, I think you're right about choking.   I don't know if, as you think, the coaches choked, but the oline choked on the second last series of regulation and left Allen out to dry.  

 

And you could see the look on Allen's face - did anyone else notice how red-faced he was.   The blood was pumpin'.   The play that kills me is the last play from scrimmage, where Allen overthrew Duke.  The bills needed 20 yards to get in field goal range, and the play was a simple 10-yard throw to Duke who, I think, was going to pitch to Singletary coming up the sideline.   It was a good play call.   Allen can make that throw all day, and he air mailed over Duke's head.  It was a total choke.   

 

And your last point is the correct one.  Let's hope they all learned from it. 

True. 

This was the biggest game Allen ever played in by far, so I have faith he'll learn and grow for it.  No excuse for the D to forget the fundamentals but that is always correctable. 

 

My real concern going forward is McDermott.  His in game management and understanding of the situation is horrible and has been since he got here. I don't know how you fix that.

[Shaw66]

20 minutes ago, gomper said:

This was the biggest game Allen ever played in by far, so I have faith he'll learn and grow for it.  No excuse for the D to forget the fundamentals but that is always correctable. 

 

My real concern going forward is McDermott.  His in game management and understanding of the situation is horrible and has been since he got here. I don't know how you fix that.

McDermott will learn.   I'm not worried about him.

 

That thing about D fundamentals:   For me, the worst play the Bills made, by far, was having the entire pass defense shell take that ridiculously deep drop on 32rd and 18.   Some defender or defenders needed to move up when the back came out of the backfield.   It was inexcusable to give a free ten-yard run from where he caught the ball.  

[stuvian]

I came away thinking that our coaching staff squeezed everything out of the team. As bold as the opening drive was the rest of the playcalling was very tame. 

I didn't just want a win. I wanted a quality win that was richly deserved. 

As someone who wanted both Mahomes and Jackson it is gratifying to see that Josh Allen belongs with that group.

I feel good about the organization but just O.K. about our roster. 

We tried to cling to a 16 point lead but we're just not dominant enough and that's too small a lead to sit on 

[Shaw66]

53 minutes ago, stuvian said:

I came away thinking that our coaching staff squeezed everything out of the team. As bold as the opening drive was the rest of the playcalling was very tame. 

I didn't just want a win. I wanted a quality win that was richly deserved. 

As someone who wanted both Mahomes and Jackson it is gratifying to see that Josh Allen belongs with that group.

I feel good about the organization but just O.K. about our roster. 

We tried to cling to a 16 point lead but we're just not dominant enough and that's too small a lead to sit on 

Really nice to hear someone say Allen belongs in the same group.   

 

I've said for a year that Allen will be an elite QB in this league.   I think the odds of him being one of the elite 5 years from now are actually better than the other two.   I think the Bills have already shown how to contain running quarterbacks.   They contained Jackson and Watson, and I think other teams will do it, too.  I think size AND a strong arm will always make for the best QBs, and I think even Mahomes may struggle.   But regardless of where those two end up, I think Allen will be there.