Furnace thermostats with energy usage monitor

[Greybeard]

   Last night my thermostat quit working.   I really liked the one I had because it gave me a daily reading of how much time the furnace was on.   It also gave me a reading for Sunday to Sunday.  It was a Hunter Energy monitor II.   It was at least 25 years old.    So I am looking for a thermostat that does the same.   Does anyone have one of the newer thermostats that communicate to your wifi or phone that gives this info?

 

   Thanks.

[RochesterRob]

1 hour ago, Greybeard said:

   Last night my thermostat quit working.   I really liked the one I had because it gave me a daily reading of how much time the furnace was on.   It also gave me a reading for Sunday to Sunday.  It was a Hunter Energy monitor II.   It was at least 25 years old.    So I am looking for a thermostat that does the same.   Does anyone have one of the newer thermostats that communicate to your wifi or phone that gives this info?

 

   Thanks.

  I know a few people who have them and the common theme is that they are away from their homes quite a bit.  The systems seem to work fine but I don't have any details to pass along at this point.  Probably like anything else man made in that it is not infallible.  I know I would like the comfort in knowing something was wrong early on to either get home to fix it or call somebody in.  I just went through having a cranky furnace to start the season but with a new transformer all is good now.  Furnaces are one of the most simple devices in a home so they don't tend to be very expensive in terms of labor when needing attention.  Part and labor was 180 dollars.  Not bad for a unit that is 20 years old and to this point has only required routine maintenance.  I have some small electric heaters for backups.  

[teef]

whe had two of these nexia run bad boys put in a year or two ago when we changed out our furnaces.  they're trane furnace specific, so i don't know how much that helps.  you can go online and determine when the heat ramps up and down, set humidity, check the 5 day weather forecast, know if the filters are old, etc.  well worth it.

[CookieG]

I have a Peter Griffin thermostat. Its a nightly occurence...my wife turns it up before bed, I turn it back down 5 minutes later.

 

 

[DC Tom]

Got a Google Nest recently.  Pricey, but nice, and easy to set up.  Might be too much for some people, though - I bought it because it had features that filled a specific need in my household.

[Alaska Darin]

Talk to a furnace professional.   Nest is notorious for burning out motors on older furnaces.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I put a Venstar in a few years back. In the App, it shows energy usage.  Will need a "C" (common wire coming off transformer, usually blue wire) to power it.  It's WiFi.  Got it for about $175... Actually came from place in BFLo... I wanna say they are out of NYC and distribute from BFLo.  The T-Stat shipped from BFLo:

 

http://hvacrpw.com

 

Cool thing, it takes an SDCard, doubles as screensaver and mini-picture frame.

 

Venstar is HVAC contractor parts, so don't expect DIYer type customer support.  YET, they are very good with engineering, support via email... There was a technical issue with using their file upload site, SDCard formats... So have some tech, IT ability.  

 

Here are the ScreenShots of App, all from phone I post on.  Sorry for the file compression quality to get under Board Limits... Will show you more compressed screen shots of App once I block out a few things...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sherpa]

I run our church thermostats, seven of them, from my home.

Six of them are Sensi, (an Emerson product), used in all spaces but the main Sanctuary.

The Sanctuary thermostat is a Honeywell product that reports energy usage each month.

It's interesting, but doesn't have any effect on how I schedule it, since the desired outcome of a thermostat is to make the space comfortable, but not wasteful.

 

I think the wifi ability is extremely important, at least in our application, because we have a number of people who use the facility and "adjust" the thermostat, which I can monitor and overrule.

 

The rest of the data, I'm not interested in.

 

Late edit.

By the way, wiring a thermostat is quite easy, if you you know the color codes, but not easy if you don't.

I've wired all of our homes and churches'.

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by sherpa

[ExiledInIllinois]

32 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

Talk to a furnace professional.   Nest is notorious for burning out motors on older furnaces.

My furnace is 22 years old.  Rheem.  I never heard this about Nest!  Glad I went Venstar route!  But it's probably BS, bad Nest Press from idiots??? Unless the Nest is doing something crazy with an AC fan or furnace blower motor... The run, start capacitor is key!!!

 

Here is my logic. On that note:

 

The capacitor is tied to motor. Synced in layman's terms.  So whenever one is getting a new (blower or AC fan) motor ALWAYS GET A NEW RUN/START CAPACITOR!

 

Not sure how the Nest is "blowing out" motors.  Has to be something else... Like motor just went bad... Out of chance, old... Then they never replaced run capacitor.  Doing that would make it seem like the new T-Stat was the cause!

 

Most people if needing a new blower motor, will replace the T-Stat.  Not replacing the run capacitor will make it look like the T-Stat wrecked new motor.  Not true!!

 

I am skeptical that the Nest is doing any harm!

Edited December 5, 2018 by ExiledInIllinois

[Alaska Darin]

3 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

My furnace is 22 years old.  Rheem.  I never heard this about Nest!  Glad I went Venstar route!  But it's probably BS, bad Nest Press from idiots??? Unless the Nest is doing something crazy with an AC fan or furnace blower motor... The run, start capacitor is key!!!

 

Here is my logic. On that note:

 

The capacitor is tied to motor. Synced in layman's terms.  So whenever one is getting a new (blower or AC fan) motor ALWAYS GET A NEW RUN/START CAPACITOR!

 

Not sure how the Nest is "blowing out" motors.  Has to be something else... Like motor just went bad... Out of chance, old... Then they never replaced run capacitor.  Doing that would make it seem like the new T-Stat was the cause!

 

Most people if needing a new blower motor, will replace the T-Stat.  Not replacing the run capacitor will make it look like the T-Stat wrecked new motor.  Not true!!

 

I am skeptical that the Nest is doing any harm!

 

"Some furnace boards have a watchdog circuit (think nanny-state) that monitors the power sine wave & voltage entering it from the transformer.

The Nest takes a small snippet bite out of the sine wave. Some boards malfunction randomly when the power comes back to the board on the G wire.

Give the Nest a common and it will lay off disturbing the power it passes"

[boyst]

I just leave mine set to 62 in the winter and off in the summer save for the 3 weeks of hottest days which it sits at 78.

 

I spend less than 100 on power utility.  Everything is electric.  My water is 13.25 every month because I never use enough.

[ExiledInIllinois]

7 minutes ago, Alaska Darin said:

 

"Some furnace boards have a watchdog circuit (think nanny-state) that monitors the power sine wave & voltage entering it from the transformer.

The Nest takes a small snippet bite out of the sine wave. Some boards malfunction randomly when the power comes back to the board on the G wire.

Give the Nest a common and it will lay off disturbing the power it passes"

Thanks so much!!!!!

 

One thing that freaks me out with the new T-Stat... Power loses.  Thanks for the info!

1 minute ago, Boyst62 said:

I just leave mine set to 62 in the winter and off in the summer save for the 3 weeks of hottest days which it sits at 78.

 

I spend less than 100 on power utility.  Everything is electric.  My water is 13.25 every month because I never use enough.

My natural gas bill last month was 31 bucks.  I set mine to 68-70.  Will go up this month though!!! :-(

[ExiledInIllinois]

Greybeard:

 

Here are more of the Venstar App shots.  Blocked out user names, not that it matters.  Screenshot above I forgot to redact it... LoL...

 

Oh... My setpoint is 3° south (cooler) in winter heating and 3° north (hotter) in summer cooling.

 

I totally love this T-Stat.  Makes it a digital picture frame w/SDCard and pictures added!  Can control from anywhere in world.

 

 

EDIT:

 

Forgot to add... Unlike Nest.  There is no battery back-up with this Venstar.  I keep the old T-Stat (digital) a few feet away as a "check" and during power outages.  Moved it to tucked away location, ran wire to furnace and can switch in the event of breakdown with main T-Stat (now the Venstar).  So, you will lose line power when there is an outage.  Now... That does not mean I couldn't add a UPS some where... But why?  WiFi router would go out anyway.

[ExiledInIllinois]

 

 

@Alaska Darin

 

That's very helpful information!  Again thanks... But it gets me thinking (yes, that's dangerous)... Isn't there a in-line fuse on the transformer to the control board?. I know there is one on my 22 year old Rheem.  A small, slow-blow, 2amp in-line glass automotive type (Cooper Bussmann #229) fuse.  That should protect the board and blower!

 

Those fuses are hard to find so I keep a bunch on hand!

 

I wonder if that fuse was popping.  Or worse, no fuse at all in-line.

 

Something isn't right here!  The circuit board (& subsequently blower on through the checks) is protected!

[boyst]

27 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Greybeard:

 

Here are more of the Venstar App shots.  Blocked out user names, not that it matters.  Screenshot above I forgot to redact it... LoL...

 

Oh... My setpoint is 3° south (cooler) in winter heating and 3° north (hotter) in summer cooling.

 

I totally love this T-Stat.  Makes it a digital picture frame w/SDCard and pictures added!  Can control from anywhere in world.

 

 

EDIT:

 

Forgot to add... Unlike Nest.  There is no battery back-up with this Venstar.  I keep the old T-Stat (digital) a few feet away as a "check" and during power outages.  Moved it to tucked away location, ran wire to furnace and can switch in the event of breakdown with main T-Stat (now the Venstar).  So, you will lose line power when there is an outage.  Now... That does not mean I couldn't add a UPS some where... But why?  WiFi router would go out anyway.

Why re you afraid to tell your location?

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 minute ago, Boyst62 said:

Why re you afraid to tell your location?

I am not.  My bad.  It isn't location, just user name, etc... 

 

Who knows, can get hacked.

I actually forgot to redact some info in first screenshot.

[Alaska Darin]

https://www.businessinsider.com/nest-thermostat-problem-2014-1

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 minute ago, Alaska Darin said:

https://www.businessinsider.com/nest-thermostat-problem-2014-1

Yikes!  I almost went Nest!

[boyst]

5 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

I am not.  My bad.  It isn't location, just user name, etc... 

 

Who knows, can get hacked.

I actually forgot to redact some info in first screenshot.

I'm not scared. Hell my IP address is 192.168.1.1

Edited December 5, 2018 by Boyst62

[ExiledInIllinois]

1 minute ago, Boyst62 said:

I'm not scared. Hell my IP address is 192.168.1.1

/rolling my eyes.  I am just a Rube.  But aren't IPs dynamic?

[boyst]

Just now, ExiledInIllinois said:

/rolling my eyes.  I am just a Rube.  But aren't IPs dynamic?

Just you're not an   L33t Hax0rz

[ExiledInIllinois]

9 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

Just you're not an   L33t Hax0rz

LoL... Remember I am old, a generation before all you slick Millennials.  Please speak non-nerd.  I kinda understand the last word. 

 

 

? Anyway... Greybeard, nothing but praise for the Venstar!  And no I don't sell them.  Here are the screensavers... You can customize and configure anything you want, just put on SDCard, upload, etc...

 

 

[Just Jack]

The first generation of Nests had problems with the base they attach to. 

[Greybeard]

        Thanks to all that replied. 

       About 6 weeks ago I was in Costco and they had the Nest and the Eco's on sale.   I started thinking about replacing mine.  So it was a bit odd that my current thermostat stopped working.  However as it turns out it was a bad battery connection.   When I had the issue, the first thing I did was change the batteries because it looked like either the display was dead or it had no power.  When I inserted the new batteries I wiggled them back and forth, mainly because I have had bad luck with battery holders.   Those square LED flashlights? you can get free from Harbor Freight seem to need attention on the battery holders after a while.   So anyway, when it did not power up, I figured component failure.  I was somewhat distracted by the Sabre/Leaf game, so I did not spend much time on it.

       After I wrote this post I started thinking about it and decided I should really check to make sure it had power.  So I took out my voltmeter and checked the connectors on the battery holder.  It takes two AA batteries.  Sure enough, no volts.  I cleaned the + battery contacts with alchohol, reinstalled the batteries, once again wiggling them and it powered up.   So the immediate problem was eliminated.   It pays to have a voltmeter.   It is even better when you actually use it.

 

    I am still interested in a new thermostat, so the comments here have been helpful.   The Venstar  looks good but I would prefer something "off the shelf."  I'm guessing it probably is a bit pricey.    I was considering a Nest at Costco, but the price held me back.  Thanks for letting me know about the issues.   

 

   It is a bit interesting that the older thermostats have batteries and the new ones take the power off the 24 volt transformer in the furnace.  The batteries wouldn't hold up when supplying power for the wifi connection and processor of the newer models.

 

   

 

   

[sherpa]

1 hour ago, Greybeard said:

         It is a bit interesting that the older thermostats have batteries and the new ones take the power off the 24 volt transformer in the furnace.  The batteries wouldn't hold up when supplying power for the wifi connection and processor of the newer models.

 

Based on my experience, I disagree.

I was worried about the wifi capability using up batteries, and that simply hasn't happened on the six that have no "C" wire that I run daily for our church.

The guide says to replace batteries in six months, but voltage is monitored and displayed, and all six are at the one year+ range, and still full power. One is over 18 months.

 

Also, mentioned above was that the "C" wire is usually blue.

In my experience, the blue is first stage heat, or just heat if you have a single stage.

The "C" or power wire is brown.

In the seven that we have, that is the case in all of them.

For what its worth.

[ExiledInIllinois]

4 hours ago, sherpa said:

 

Based on my experience, I disagree.

I was worried about the wifi capability using up batteries, and that simply hasn't happened on the six that have no "C" wire that I run daily for our church.

The guide says to replace batteries in six months, but voltage is monitored and displayed, and all six are at the one year+ range, and still full power. One is over 18 months.

 

Also, mentioned above was that the "C" wire is usually blue.

In my experience, the blue is first stage heat, or just heat if you have a single stage.

The "C" or power wire is brown.

In the seven that we have, that is the case in all of them.

For what its worth.

When they built my house, Blue was Cool.

 

Yellow was common.  But didn't need it.

 

When I put the Venstar in, I needed a C wire.  I switched it.  Making yellow = cool. And blue as common. 

 

I think, pretty sure that is standard coloring. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by ExiledInIllinois