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Are Mcdermott and Beane the worst group to run the bills since pollian ?

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I don't want to get sucked into the swamp here, but I do have one question for the OP:

 

Let's suppose you are in a job where you constantly need to hire new people, and it literally takes several years for your new hires to come up to speed and gel as a team.

 

How would you feel if your boss, or even the folks from another division, are loudly judging you on your results after less than two cycles on the job, especially if you did something highly positive at the end of your first cycle?  Would you feel they were premature?  Fair and balanced?  Nucking futz?  What?

 

I wouldn't deny there are red flags and puzzling decisions here, but I'm going to wait to see what happens through the season and how our precious high draft picks look at the end before I pass judgement.

 

Unless, of course, the rest of our season shapes up like the first 6 quarters and not the last 2 (eg total embarassment), in which case they get 'til the bye week.

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1 minute ago, 3rdand12 said:

with anyone reasonable? we can find some middle ground. no matter how wrong they might be !
and you misspelled

           " your and idiot"

 

perhaps a typo ?

 cheers to you  The Wiz !!

For some reason I miss on my intentionally incorrect phrases when I drink.  I'm a programmer though so I'm probably hitting my Ballmer Peak.

 

Right back at you.:beer:

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1 minute ago, TheElectricCompany said:

I'll have to look at the tape... 

Are you sure that's the right move?

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Mahomes will come back to earth. I wanted him on the Bills too though. But Allen is an exciting watch. Im glad he’s here.  I didn’t think that at the draft to be honest but he’s got alot of game that makes you want to tune in 

Edited by bobblehead

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5 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

We have plenty of 2019 cap money and draft picks to shore up the roster.

I see what you did there!

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

Are you sure that's the right move?

he's shore of it.

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Todd Bowles was 10-6, 5-11, 5-11.

 

The Jets look pretty good this year.

I think a lot of you people need to go root for a winning team while the loyal fans go through the rebuild.  You can come back when we are division champs again.

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1 minute ago, formerlyofCtown said:

 

I think a lot of you people need to go root for a winning team while the loyal fans go through the rebuild.  You can come back when we are division champs again.

This.

 

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4 hours ago, baskingridgebillsfan said:

If you Factor in the descion to pass on Mahomes , the current state of the roster, the fact that they made a major investment in Allen , who is far from a sure thing, the jettisone of any player whith the slightest quirk in his personality this is the wost group to run the organization since Pollian took over.  

 

Its boom or bust at this point. It’s akin to josh McDaniel. If the QBs good and they hit in free agency/draft next year - awesome. Otherwise you just gutted a team in way that’s actually pretty rare. 

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6 hours ago, baskingridgebillsfan said:

If you Factor in the descion to pass on Mahomes , the current state of the roster, the fact that they made a major investment in Allen , who is far from a sure thing, the jettisone of any player whith the slightest quirk in his personality this is the wost group to run the organization since Pollian took over.  

 

Can we stop now?

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6 hours ago, baskingridgebillsfan said:

If you Factor in the descion to pass on Mahomes , the current state of the roster, the fact that they made a major investment in Allen , who is far from a sure thing, the jettisone of any player whith the slightest quirk in his personality this is the wost group to run the organization since Pollian took over.  

151.gif

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Beane came here and started jettisoning overpaid and prima donna players.  As much as he could, he put the dead cap money into 2018 with the clear intention of making this a rebuilding year.  I certainly don't agree with every decision but you can easily see the logic at work.  He's collecting draft capital and building up free cap space to make 2019 and 2020 good years.  If Beane does a credible job executing his plan, we'll be back in the playoffs in 2020.  

 

McD is James Bowie being outnumbered 15-1 at the Battle of the Alamo.  He's capable enough and his guys have good esprit d'corps.  But they're outgunned and have no realistic chance.  The Vikes, for example, are spending nearly 50% more on their roster this year than the Bills are ($183,000,000 vs. 125,000,000).   The best leaders and tacticians in the world can't overcome those numbers.  

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Let me know when we enter Bob Lustig territory. Until then, this is all gravy. 

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These posts are incredibly stupid. There have been suspect free agency aqcuisitions, but this regime has

 

1.) Went for and got a legit elite QB prospect (of course opinions vary on this, but many scouts touted him as having the highest ceiling in the draft), which most of the fanbase has been begging for over the last 20 years

 

2.) Made it to the playoffs for the first time in 18 years.

 

It is also notable that they have drafted what looks to be a great young CB, DT, and LB. It is too early to know what we have in Phillips and Edmunds, but they both look like they have a lot of potential. 

 

Honestly, I question how long you have been a Bills fan. You should know about the cap situation and the shedding of the Whaley's suspect picks and factor this into the current state of the team. I haven't agreed with everything they've done, and yes the product on the field has looked abysmal for much of the first two games, but have a little perspective before posting such hyperbolic nonsense

Edited by billsgpr88
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2 hours ago, Misterbluesky said:

The 80 million is sure nice to have but let's face facts,you need some savings for down the road...meaning sooner or later you will have to pay your stud draft picks.Build through draft is what I say ,since most FA's have some kind of baggage but still end up getting overpaid.I sure hope the Beane Counter doesn't approach next year's "new season" as if he got the keys to the chocolate factory handed to him.I expect to see a very solid team in 2020,if things are still in rough shape at that time..he has to go.jmho.

 

I get the impression that Beane is mostly a build-thru-the-draft kind of guy.  I expect he'll overpay for one or two FAs - like most GMs do.  When you want something bad enough, you have to be the high bidder.  

 

But I think he's going to focus on undervalued players and "B" players who can be signed affordably and not "A" players who will demand record-setting contracts.  

 

$80,000,000 just doesn't go as far as it used to.  

 

 

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6 hours ago, baskingridgebillsfan said:

If you Factor in the descion to pass on Mahomes , the current state of the roster, the fact that they made a major investment in Allen , who is far from a sure thing, the jettisone of any player whith the slightest quirk in his personality this is the wost group to run the organization since Pollian took over.  

Beane was not the GM for the Mahomes draft.  Maybe he would have picked him but if he did Mahomes would have a totally different development path. 

 

Mahomes is looking good now.  After a  full year on the bench under a veteran Alex Smith, with Andy Reid’s at the helm, and playing on a solid team on the rise.  

 

The Bills roster was was going to be purged with or without Mahomes as too many big salaries were coming and none of them included a franchise QB.  The roster of Whaley could not be sustained as it continually pushed big salaries out to the point were 1/5 of the team was making a huge majority of the money.  

 

Never have they “jettisoned” players with quirks.  They kept Incognito, McCoy,  and Hughes- all of whom have “quirks” I guess.  The traded players had salary issues or did not fit the plan or the culture.  

 

 

20 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Let me know when we enter Bob Lustig territory. Until then, this is all gravy. 

Or Harvey Johnson 

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4 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

Beane was not the GM for the Mahomes draft.  Maybe he would have picked him but if he did Mahomes would have a totally different development path. 

 

Mahomes is looking good now.  After a  full year on the bench under a veteran Alex Smith, with Andy Reid’s at the helm, and playing on a solid team on the rise.  

 

The Bills roster was was going to be purged with or without Mahomes as too many big salaries were coming and none of them included a franchise QB.  The roster of Whaley could not be sustained as it continually pushed big salaries out to the point were 1/5 of the team was making a huge majority of the money.  

 

Never have they “jettisoned” players with quirks.  They kept Incognito, McCoy,  and Hughes- all of whom have “quirks” I guess.  The traded players had salary issues or did not fit the plan or the culture.  

 

 

Or Harvey Johnson 

Oh man. In '68, after he took over for Collier and went like 1-10-1 or something, we had the dynamic duo of Lustig and Johnson running the show. Yep, these days are all gravy. 

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Just now, K-9 said:

Oh man. In '68, after he took over for Collier and went like 1-10-1 or something, we had the dynamic duo of Lustig and Johnson running the show. Yep, these days are all gravy. 

Harvey was worse than that. 

 

from Wikipedia:  

 

 

Player in careerEdit

Johnson played as a linebacker for the New York Yankees of the All-America Football Conference (AAFC) from 1946 to 1949. In 1951, he played as a linebacker for the NFL's New York Yanks.

 

CoachingEdit

After eight years as an assistant coach and then defensive coordinator with the Buffalo Bills, Johnson first took the reins as head coach in 1968, when Joe Collier was fired one game into the season. The Bills went 1–10–1 with Johnson at the helm, and he was replaced the following year by John Rauch. Johnson returned to his role as the Bills' defensive backfield coach for two seasons before resuming the head coaching post in 1971. After finishing with a 1–13 record that year, Johnson was reassigned to the scouting department. He compiled a record of 2–23–1 in his two seasons. Johnson was also on the Buffalo Bills coaching staff when the Bills won the 1965 AFL Championship game. Johnson continued to work as a scout for the team until his death in 1983.

It was speculated that Johnson's love of thoroughbred horse racing, a passion he shared with owner Ralph Wilson, allowed him to stay on the Bills payroll despite his poor performance in coaching.[1]

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7 hours ago, Mark80 said:

What exactly is a "shore" thing?  A shell?  Sand?  Jellyfish?  I'm confused.

no one is shocked by your confusion 

41 minutes ago, billsgpr88 said:

These posts are incredibly stupid. There have been suspect free agency aqcuisitions, but this regime has

 

1.) Went for and got a legit elite QB prospect (of course opinions vary on this, but many scouts touted him as having the highest ceiling in the draft), which most of the fanbase has been begging for over the last 20 years

 

2.) Made it to the playoffs for the first time in 18 years.

 

It is also notable that they have drafted what looks to be a great young CB, DT, and LB. It is too early to know what we have in Phillips and Edmunds, but they both look like they have a lot of potential. 

 

Honestly, I question how long you have been a Bills fan. You should know about the cap situation and the shedding of the Whaley's suspect picks and factor this into the current state of the team. I haven't agreed with everything they've done, and yes the product on the field has looked abysmal for much of the first two games, but have a little perspective before posting such hyperbolic nonsense

they could have drafted a qb with thier original pick in 2017. Instead they wait a year and spent a ton of capable to get a qb.  Dismissing what will be at best a 4-12 year is folly .  Spending their limited funds on defense instead of helping out thier young qb is very questionable.   

56 minutes ago, RussellDopeland said:

151.gif

nice keyboard tough guy.  is that your picture ?

54 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

Beane came here and started jettisoning overpaid and prima donna players.  As much as he could, he put the dead cap money into 2018 with the clear intention of making this a rebuilding year.  I certainly don't agree with every decision but you can easily see the logic at work.  He's collecting draft capital and building up free cap space to make 2019 and 2020 good years.  If Beane does a credible job executing his plan, we'll be back in the playoffs in 2020.  

 

McD is James Bowie being outnumbered 15-1 at the Battle of the Alamo.  He's capable enough and his guys have good esprit d'corps.  But they're outgunned and have no realistic chance.  The Vikes, for example, are spending nearly 50% more on their roster this year than the Bills are ($183,000,000 vs. 125,000,000).   The best leaders and tacticians in the world can't overcome those numbers.  

you can call them overpaid and prima donna but they had talent.  This team has a sevre lack of taent.  

5 hours ago, COTC said:

I miss having a competent GM...

that is better then the process 

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4 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

..how about all of the prognosticating pundits forecasting 2-14, 3-13, 4-12, 5-11 along with "wouldn't surprise me if we go 0-8?........and now their bi-polarism comes to light flipping out over an 0-2 start?..... McD and McBeane are the worst since Polian after one draft and two off seasons together?.....ignorance like this is best kept secretly versus advertising one's fickleness....good Lord.......

who put together a roster that will go 2-14?  

5 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Are you that desperate for attention?  Do you have no friends?

again with the personal attacks.   another keyboard tough guy.     

5 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Did they plan on being this bad after 2 games?  Of course not.  They signed a couple of D FAs they wanted and spent what little they had left

on "band aids".  Most of the "band Aids" are not working out.

 

Drafting a QB who it is fairly obvious they wanted to sit for a while.  That plan "failed" with AJM playing so bad.

 

Passing on Mahomes.   This has been talked to death.  McDermott knew that Whaley was on the way out and that he and the new GM had to make

the young drafted QB "their guy".  He had to wait until this year (which was projected to be one of the best for QBs in a long time).

 

 

You are right about the D being much worse than they expected.  The beginning of this year has started out bad.  Very bad.

I for one have come to terms with the 1st 4 games being a mess and said so during the preseason.

This season is going to have to be scored in 3 separate groups.

 

1st 4 games.  No wins.

Games 5-10 up to the Bye week.  I expect them to get something going and win 2-3.

Games 11-16 after the Bye.  Once again 2-3 wins.

 

That's about 5-6 wins this year.  If McDermott get's them playing together and Josh Allen can improve maybe 1 or 2 more.

That would be a successful rebuilding year.

I would recommend waiting at least until game 12 before trashing everything Beane and McDermott.

5-6 wins will be a job well done .  I simply don't see it 

5 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...pretty sure his medical furlough is over at 6PM anyway.................

putting together a 2-14 doesn't put you in the running for the worst group .   For all those point to Marv and Jauron they won 7 games thier first three years 

5 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Sadly, it’s a way of life for some people. 

or a realistic look at the situaion   

6 hours ago, Dopey said:

Is your last name Van Winkle? Did you sleep through the Rex and Whaley years? 

did they ever field a team this bad?

5 hours ago, quinnearlysghost88 said:

"the decision to pass on Mahomes." Should every team that passed on Mahomes fire their coach and GM?

it is one part of the mess. Not the entire reason for the post.  

6 hours ago, Azucho98 said:

Levy as GM was a disaster well beyond this mess.

yes the team was never this bad.  

6 hours ago, wiskibreth said:

 

He's fine to have his own opinion, i respect that.  But... OP asked a question, then answered it for himself with a bit of a rant, kinda indicates to me an immature temper tantrum.  Happens frequently in TSW now.  Reminds me of BBMB.

asked a question.  posted my opinion.  left it up for others to debate.  hardly a sean hannity type temper tatrum 

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5 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...best bet is to stay in the woods......

again you should google /  not much backwoods in the entite state of New jersey by the way.  fairly progressive state 

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7 hours ago, Watkins90 said:

The thing is $80 million next year is great, but don't think they are just going to spend that and magically be good next year. It is going to take at least two years. At least two free agent pools and drafts to build the roster out. I would expect us to sign a couple players to four or five-year contracts with some high cash amounts and then a lot of players to one-year deals next year. This way, they can turn around and have a lot of cap space for the next year, as well to continue to improve the roster. Remember, NFL teams have to spend, what 90 or 95 percent of their cap every season. It's in the collective bargaining agreement. Some have said next year's free agent pool won't be very good, so you sign one-year deals to clear cap space for the next season.

 

The plan has always been to build through the draft and manage the cap so that you can sign your own home grown players. How many years did we watch Bills players that we drafted become very good and then leave in free agency? And you're right, this FO is not going to go out and buy a dream team next year. It's not part of the process. They will, however, be able to add a few higher paid FAs at positions of need (wide receiver, pass rusher, OG, whatever). And they can also buy some depth. We just didn't have the money to do that this year.

 

But, the reason they should be able to win next year is because they are building a nice nucleus of players (mostly through the draft) that will all have another year of experience. We already have a top corner, our Left Tackle, a replacement for Kyle, a stud middle LB, and hopefully a franchise QB all coming through the draft. (Obviously, right now, so much of our future hangs on Allen's shoulders---whether we will be good or not). Our safeties are elite and with depth too. With our 10 picks next year we should be able to add at least another 3 good players that can start right away (like they did in their first two drafts) and you then attack the glaring holes and positions that lack depth with quality FAs and not have to do as many one year rentals as these first two years. There will always be some one year rentals at the bottom of the roster of course, but I believe the one year rentals have been out of necessity (to try to continue to field a competitive team while rebuilding, rather than just tanking) not part of their mo. This could actually be a very solid team next year.

 

And I am not giving up hope on this season yet. It's a funny thing. People get better with experience and when they work together longer. Some fans act like what we saw in the first 6 quarters of this years is the way this team will play for the next 14 games. They will both get better and face some teams that aren't as talented as these first 4 teams. We could still have some fun this year, watching this team grow and getting some wins (even if we don't make the playoffs).

 

And speaking of playoffs, I am at a complete loss as to how some fans have already lost faith in Beane and McDermott and want them fired after just two games this year. Have you already forgotten how we all felt last New Year's Eve? I mean come on. Have a little bit of patience. 

 

I also think too many fans who are ranting about these two loses completely underestimate the loss of Wood and Incognito. The draft lacked offensive line talent and we had no money to bid for top free agent OL men. Think about this team right now if Wood was at center and Incognito was still on the ball at Guard. The defense may still have had its troubles, but the offense would have looked a lot better. They were two surprises at positions that were really hard to fill this year. And when you are basically starting an entirely new interior line, even if the players are very good, it takes time for them to come along. The offensive line is the spot in football that takes the most amount of teamwork, intuitively knowing what each other is going to do, working together. It takes time to build chemistry even for a very talented line. That was a big blow, which wasn't as easy to remedy as some think. This current line probably won't become really good all of a sudden, but they will get better as the season goes on just from working together as a unit over time.

 

I am still 100% behind this regime, no matter what our record is this year (which I think will actually be better than most are projecting right now---I think we will be around .500, not 0-3 wins, worst team of all time!) and I do believe we will be able to start being a very good team as early as next year. It looks bad right now, but when you actually look at all of the factors and reasons involved, and the plan, and not just react emotionally to a couple of bad loses, you can see the way forward and the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

 

Edited by folz
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11 minutes ago, baskingridgebillsfan said:

who put together a roster that will go 2-14?  

again with the personal attacks.   another keyboard tough guy.     

5-6 wins will be a job well done .  I simply don't see it 

putting together a 2-14 doesn't put you in the running for the worst group .   For all those point to Marv and Jauron they won 7 games thier first three years 

or a realistic look at the situaion   

did they ever field a team this bad?

it is one part of the mess. Not the entire reason for the post.  

yes the team was never this bad.  

asked a question.  posted my opinion.  left it up for others to debate.  hardly a sean hannity type temper tatrum 

 

I guess you got a sampling of what other people think of your opinion. Time will tell. 

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5 hours ago, DC Tom said:

 

I miss the good old days when I could point out, factually and accurately and without the mods getting upset, that someone who posts something this idiotic is a mentally deranged little turd.  Instead, I'm required to be nice, and tell you "Good point, keep up the good work!"  But I don't actually have to mean it, and it's entirely possible I'm thinking "Geez, what a mentally deranged little turd" while I type it.

 

 

So...Good point, keep up the good work!    :thumbsup:

what is with the name callng .   you sound like a hatful trump guy.  gods and guns ? 

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