School Choice?

[whatdrought]

Has the "King" proven that the private sector is better for Schools than the government? 

 

http://time.com/money/5354265/lebron-james-i-promise-school-akron/?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=social-button-sharing

[TakeYouToTasker]

14 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

Has the "King" proven that the private sector is better for Schools than the government? 

 

http://time.com/money/5354265/lebron-james-i-promise-school-akron/?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=social-button-sharing

 

Of course private schools are better than government schools.  Have you noticed that nearly every legislator on both sides of the aisle sends their children to private schools?

 

 

 

[IDBillzFan]

You're asking the wrong question because this isn't a private sector vs. public sector thing. He merged his money with the public school system to create a special offering.

 

 

What genuinely needs to happen is schools need to get off the government dole completely. And then the answer would be "Yes, the private sector is better for schools than the government," if for no other reason than because you do away with unions.

 

Let parents take their tax dollars and put them to work in the private school of their choice. Watch what happens. 

 

[3rdnlng]

Look at the record of charter schools over public schools, generally speaking.

[whatdrought]

6 minutes ago, LABillzFan said:

You're asking the wrong question because this isn't a private sector vs. public sector thing. He merged his money with the public school system to create a special offering.

 

 

What genuinely needs to happen is schools need to get off the government dole completely. And then the answer would be "Yes, the private sector is better for schools than the government," if for no other reason than because you do away with unions.

 

Let parents take their tax dollars and put them to work in the private school of their choice. Watch what happens. 

 

 

While true that it is not a direct comparison between private v. public, it does speak to the fact that the private sector will (almost exclusively) have a better end result than the public. 

[row_33]

9 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

While true that it is not a direct comparison between private v. public, it does speak to the fact that the private sector will (almost exclusively) have a better end result than the public. 

 

nature vs nurture argument?

 

being born to rich parents helps one immensely in life

 

[whatdrought]

Just now, row_33 said:

 

nature vs nurture argument?

 

being born to rich parents helps one immensely in life

 

 

I'm confused by the first part of your response? 

 

Well, that's irrefutable, but it shouldn't be the only answer to the problem. 

 

LA hit it right on the head: 

 

12 minutes ago, LABillzFan said:

 

Let parents take their tax dollars and put them to work in the private school of their choice. Watch what happens. 

 

 

 

 

Also, to clear it up, I am 100% for school choice. 

 

I posted this article cause I found it funny that those who might be opposed to school choice would worship Lebrons actions without realizing that this proves the need for choice. 

[row_33]

society doesn't let you have free choices to your heart's content

 

you don't get do-overs unless you have a lot of money to cover up your screw-ups

 

the education game is rigged heavily, your district, your chances of admission, your opportunities are pretty well set the day you are born

 

people in the know have spent generations rigging it against everybody who isn't in the know...

 

good luck y'all...

 

Edited August 2, 2018 by row_33

[Buffalo_Gal]

My father taught in the Buffalo public school system. He sent his kids to Catholic elementary schools.

My niece is now a BPS teacher. Should be interesting what she does with her kids.

I am all for parents having a say in their school of choice.  Sometimes money helps. Sometimes, it does not. Segregation - by special needs, gifted and talented, etc. really does help too, but it is not PC to say or do. There is a reason so many parents homeschool.
 

[IDBillzFan]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

 There is a reason so many parents homeschool.

 

We're one of those families. It has been an amazing journey, although CA does what it can to deter people from going down that road.

[row_33]

10 minutes ago, LABillzFan said:

 

We're one of those families. It has been an amazing journey, although CA does what it can to deter people from going down that road.

 

are the vast majority of homeschooling situations performed by people with active religious lives?

 

they are around here.... no matter what your faith....

 

[IDBillzFan]

Just now, row_33 said:

 

are the vast majority of homeschooling situations performed by people with active religious lives?

 

they are around here.... no matter what your faith....

 

 

To my eyes faith has little to do with whether someone home schools. Most of the home school parents we meet simply see a more targeted education for their child as having greater value than keeping their children in a classroom built to operate at one very slow speed.

[row_33]

9 minutes ago, LABillzFan said:

 

To my eyes faith has little to do with whether someone home schools. Most of the home school parents we meet simply see a more targeted education for their child as having greater value than keeping their children in a classroom built to operate at one very slow speed.

 

thanks.  I have not met a family that homeschooled that wasn't religious in Southern Ontario.  out of dozens of families.

 

 

[KD in CA]

2 hours ago, row_33 said:

 

nature vs nurture argument?

 

being born to rich parents helps one immensely in life

 

 

Sure, but very few people are born to parents rich enough to provide for them beyond childhood.  The real value is not the wealth of the parents, it's whether the parents were raised correctly and cared enough to exert the effort into raising their children correctly.  You don't have to be rich to read bedtime stories to your kid every night from birth until they are six and can do it themselves.  You don't have to be rich to teach them not to be spoiled, boorish, entitled brats but rather frugal, respectful, thoughtful and hard working people. 

 

The reason why private schools and certain public schools do well is because 1) parental involvement in the school and 2) children who were raised to act appropriately in school.  Money is a distant third. There are countless examples of terrible schools that have double the per-pupil budget as more successful schools and it has everything to do with the parents and how they raised the kids.

[IDBillzFan]

14 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

The reason why private schools and certain public schools do well is because 1) parental involvement in the school and 2) children who were raised to act appropriately in school.

 

For many parents, school is a babysitter. They're not involved in the school, or even in their child's assignments and responsibilities.

 

It was crazy for me to see kids show up empty-handed on a day a science project was due. The parents response would be "What project? It was due WHEN?"

 

 

[keepthefaith]

1 hour ago, KD in CA said:

 

Sure, but very few people are born to parents rich enough to provide for them beyond childhood.  The real value is not the wealth of the parents, it's whether the parents were raised correctly and cared enough to exert the effort into raising their children correctly.  You don't have to be rich to read bedtime stories to your kid every night from birth until they are six and can do it themselves.  You don't have to be rich to teach them not to be spoiled, boorish, entitled brats but rather frugal, respectful, thoughtful and hard working people. 

 

The reason why private schools and certain public schools do well is because 1) parental involvement in the school and 2) children who were raised to act appropriately in school.  Money is a distant third. There are countless examples of terrible schools that have double the per-pupil budget as more successful schools and it has everything to do with the parents and how they raised the kids.

 

Yes, parents, families and the character of people matter A LOT.  We're fortunate here in a Chicago west suburb to have what I believe are great public schools both in the student body and teachers/administrators as well.  The experiences and teaching quality for my 3 kids that went through the district here were top notch IMO.  Add coaches to that as 2 of the 3 played a couple of sports each and were very lucky to have the coaches they had who not only got the most out of them athletically but also taught them great character.  I really feel blessed in this regard.  We have a couple great private schools in the area and frankly I think the public schools are every bit as good or better.

 

We have a couple teachers in the neighborhood who teach in low income areas and what they describe in those schools is amazingly different than what their own kids went through in our local school system.   They tell us that the greatest differences they see between the districts are goals and expectations.  That being among the parents, the students and unfortunately the school administration which where they teach have adopted very lax rules regarding grading and discipline.  Much different than in our district where the ship is run tight. 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2018 by keepthefaith

[LaDexter]

Katrina Vanden Heuvel once called America's public education a "treasure."

 

Indeed, for the Democrats, it is TREASURE, because money that should be going to educate kids always ends up in Dem campaign coffers.

 

Public education is a monopoly, and it acts like one.  It has a perverted motive - the more uneducated you are, the more likely you will want government "help" and hence VOTE DEM.... which is what really matters to "public" education - manufacturing DEM VOTERS....

[KD in CA]

15 minutes ago, keepthefaith said:

Yes, parents, families and the character of people matter A LOT.  We're fortunate here in a Chicago west suburb to have what I believe are great public schools both in the student body and teachers/administrators as well.  The experiences and teaching quality for my 3 kids that went through the district here were top notch IMO.  Add coaches to that as 2 of the 3 played a couple of sports each and were very lucky to have the coaches they had who not only got the most out of them athletically but also taught them great character.  I really feel blessed in this regard.  We have a couple great private schools in the area and frankly I think the public schools are every bit as good or better.

 

We have a couple teachers in the neighborhood who teach in low income areas and what they describe in those schools is amazingly different than what their own kids went through in our home school system.   They tell us that the greatest differences they see between the districts are goals and expectations.  That being among the parents, the students and unfortunately the school administration which where the teach have adopted very lax rules regarding grading and discipline.  Much different than in our home district where the ship is run tight. 

 

Same here in our town in CA;  the school, staff and kids are great.  But the cost is paying an amount for a house that would make most people's heads explode.  And then pony up an extra few grand for the art/music stuff because CA steals that money to pay off the union bosses.

 

As for the low-income areas, I have several teachers in my immediate family; my B-I-L was proud to work in a half middle class, half 'hood school a few years ago.  He put up with the future criminals and drug addicts doing zero work and being held to zero standards.  But once one of the hood rats started threatening him and the administration refused to do anything (I guess that would have been raysis), he said !@#$ it and got a job in a rich town. The occasional hassle from some spoiled brat is a minor inconvenience by comparison.

[Boatdrinks]

7 hours ago, KD in CA said:

 

Sure, but very few people are born to parents rich enough to provide for them beyond childhood.  The real value is not the wealth of the parents, it's whether the parents were raised correctly and cared enough to exert the effort into raising their children correctly.  You don't have to be rich to read bedtime stories to your kid every night from birth until they are six and can do it themselves.  You don't have to be rich to teach them not to be spoiled, boorish, entitled brats but rather frugal, respectful, thoughtful and hard working people. 

 

The reason why private schools and certain public schools do well is because 1) parental involvement in the school and 2) children who were raised to act appropriately in school.  Money is a distant third. There are countless examples of terrible schools that have double the per-pupil budget as more successful schools and it has everything to do with the parents and how they raised the kids.

This has been supported by research done as far back as the 50’s. However, it’s precisely why “ school choice” will never work in America. The goal of most ( good ) parents isn’t just to have their child attend a “ good school” . It’s also to keep their child away from “ bad kids” . So the current system works well for those who can afford to live in a district where other good parents also reside. We know that if you took the students from a bad , failing inner city school and swapped them with those in a wealthy suburban “ good school” that the past results would largely follow them. The problem with bad schools isn’t really the teachers , or the unions ( they exist in good performing districts too), it’s really largely the students . This, however is not the PC answer, though years of research consistently conclude that the quality of the students family is the greatest predictor of educational success and achievement. 

[Doc Brown]

8 hours ago, KD in CA said:

 

Sure, but very few people are born to parents rich enough to provide for them beyond childhood.  The real value is not the wealth of the parents, it's whether the parents were raised correctly and cared enough to exert the effort into raising their children correctly.  You don't have to be rich to read bedtime stories to your kid every night from birth until they are six and can do it themselves.  You don't have to be rich to teach them not to be spoiled, boorish, entitled brats but rather frugal, respectful, thoughtful and hard working people. 

 

The reason why private schools and certain public schools do well is because 1) parental involvement in the school and 2) children who were raised to act appropriately in school.  Money is a distant third. There are countless examples of terrible schools that have double the per-pupil budget as more successful schools and it has everything to do with the parents and how they raised the kids.

Yup.  Parental involvement is by far the most predictive factor of student success.  A parent who puts a high value on education will usually choose the best school for their child to succeed that's within their budget (moving to a more affluent district that has better public schools, sending them to a charter school, paying for a private school, or even homeschooling).