Interesting developments in Italy

[TakeYouToTasker]

25 minutes ago, gatorbait said:

I’m in over my head so I’m going to hang up and listen but I would just echo what some others already said in that diversity is good if their is assimilation and tolerance of other cultures. 

 

You can't have both, really.  You either insist that all cultures need to be tolerated, which allows them to segregate and not assimilate, or you have assimilation.

[gatorbait]

Just now, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

You can't have both, really.  You either insist that all cultures need to be tolerated, which allows them to segregate and not assimilate, or you have assimilation.

I don’t like thinking of things in extremes or absolutes. Culture can be tolerated and assimilated, the proof is right here in this country. Little Italy, China town etc keep their culture while also being Americans and assimilating into American culture. Assimilation is a mixture of keeping some of their roots while also blending into their new society, I don’t think it’s strictly one or the other. 

[#34fan]

1 hour ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

Can you demonstrate that cultural diversity was a "big part" of America's foundation?

 

38 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

No, because that's an absurd observation.

 

Some level of immigration is a good thing for reasons cultural, genetic, economic, and technological.  The melting pot has served America well by delivering to us the worlds best and brightest on our terms, and making them and their progeny into Americans while siphoning off the best parts of the culture they came from and adding them to our own in order to enhance it.

 

1 hour ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

You're comingling two separate ideas:

 

The concept of America as a melting pot which is best served by importing a controlled amount of immigrants over time, preserving our culture while adopting the best parts of theirs as our own; and that of a America as a cultural tapestry, which segregates, and leads to violence. 

 

I think what's being pushed-back against here is really Multiculturalism, which is a different thing entirely than diversity... As noble a concept as multiculturalism is, it is problematic to maintain at best, Completely unsustainable at worst.... So if you ask me if I'm pro-"Diversity" I would say yes... Multi-culturalism on the other hand, is something far more complicated that merits deep, honest, discussion.

[DC Tom]

11 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

You can't have both, really.  You either insist that all cultures need to be tolerated, which allows them to segregate and not assimilate, or you have assimilation.

Well...he told us Europe is tolerant of diversity, and when I told him he was wrong, he told me I was wrong, and repeated my argument back to me.

 

So he may not be able to have it both ways...but he's trying really hard...

[gatorbait]

11 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

Well...he told us Europe is tolerant of diversity, and when I told him he was wrong, he told me I was wrong, and repeated my argument back to me.

 

So he may not be able to have it both ways...but he's trying really hard...

 

You’re confusing me with another idiot. 

Edited June 5, 2018 by gatorbait

[KD in CA]

2 hours ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

I keep hearing that cultural diversity is a good thing.

 

I have yet to have anyone explain to me why it's a good thing.

 

I see lots of evidence that it leads directly to violence as two distinct and competing cultures compete for supremacy.

 

If we could manage to avoid the violence or the destruction of one cultures norms in deference to another, which has never happened on a wide scale, I could be persuaded that it's a neutral thing.

 

But I'd like to see evidence that it's objectively good.

 

Any takers?

 

Because it's our STRENGTH!!

 

 

[TakeYouToTasker]

Just now, KD in CA said:

 

Because it's our STRENGTH!!

 

 

I know you're being facetious, but I would love to start a conversation in which individuals are forced to defend the ideas expressed with bumper slicker sloganeering.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

7 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

I know you're being facetious, but I would love to start a conversation in which individuals are forced to defend the ideas expressed with bumper slicker sloganeering.

 

How's this:

 

Cultural diversity has numerous examples over countless millennia of failure and war. Consider my examples below:

 

The Balkans - home to the worst European genocide since the end of WWII

The Middle East post sykes/picot - Random groupings of historic enemies bound together by unwitting or uncaring colonial overlords now murdering each other for decades.

Russia  both pre- and post-communism - That place has been a disaster of pogroms and genocides for centuries

Europe for most of its history post-rome - how many wars did they fight again?

Rwanda - need i say more?

 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2018 by joesixpack

[TakeYouToTasker]

10 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

How's this:

 

Cultural diversity has numerous examples over countless millennia of failure and war. Consider my examples below:

 

The Balkans - home to the worst European genocide since the end of WWII

The Middle East post sykes/picot - Random groupings of historic enemies bound together by unwitting or uncaring colonial overlords now murdering each other for decades.

Russia  both pre- and post-communism - That place has been a disaster of pogroms and genocides for centuries

Europe for most of its history post-rome - how many wars did they fight again?

Rwanda - need i say more?

 

 

 

 

That's great.  What's your bumper sticker slogan?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

16 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

 

That's great.  What's your bumper sticker slogan?

 

Oh!

 

Multiculturalism: breeding war since 5000BC

[KD in CA]

56 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

I know you're being facetious, but I would love to start a conversation in which individuals are forced to defend the ideas expressed with bumper slicker sloganeering.

 

It's amazing living here in the capital of left-wingism.....somehow everyone gets a whole lot more conservative the moment you start talking about class sizes and resources for art and music in the elementary schools.

[#34fan]

18 hours ago, OJABBA said:

 

Cool, we agree. 

 

Now what's the solution, and who is liable to implement it?

 

Angela Merkel?

 

Probablly not since she is CRAZY as hell.... You could argue too that she's the one who threw Europe's door open to refugees on an epic scale.

 

[The_Dude]

4 hours ago, #34fan said:

 

European colonialism and expansionism GUARANTEED Culture and race mixing. -Period. 

 

Human Diversity across cultural lines is a very large feline people are fruitlessly trying to shove back into a kitten-size bag.

 

Although explaining that to a group who, in 2018, are thrown by mixed couples in TV commercials is equally fruitless.

 

 

European colonialism guaranteed the spreading of European culture. Europe did far more to civilize the world than it did damage. 

 

As far as your comment on race, aka ‘skin color,’ you’re both wrong and correct. Yes, youre correct, but you’re wrong if you think this impacted Europe. Argue against that — g’head. 

 

Also, cultural diversity is an awful thing. Awful. It always has been, and always will be. White Europeans had a hard time not fighting after immigrating here and it’s only because they’re white Christian children considered themselves “American” more than they did “Italian Catholic” or “German Protestant.”

 

Diversity doesn’t work. It’s a lie that history has proven to be a lie. Diversity is culture, not skin color.  

[#34fan]

4 hours ago, The_Dude said:

European colonialism guaranteed the spreading of European culture. 

 

And Syphilis.... -Although it's hard to say which was more devastating to colonial populations.

 

And who's Europe are we talking about, Anyway?

 

The Hohenzollerns? -The Habsburgs?.. Which one of the myriad nation-states, Duchy's and Grand-duchys of the Holy Roman Empire does your particular bloodline hail from?

 

Please tell me so I can laugh in your face.

 

What if I told you the awful truth?  Which is that the European continent was ALWAYS a diverse population to one degree or another. Bloodlines

 

consistently intertwined and intermarried across language a cultural lines. -And even that wasn't good enough...  Trade routes from India, china, Asia minor,

 

and the Americas enlightened European palates,drove it's fashion trends, and propelled it's innovations... Gunpowder, spices, silks, textiles, medicines, and the

 

all-important strange poonanny! Europe not only thrived on diversity, -It required diversity to advance through the ages.

 

4 hours ago, The_Dude said:

Diversity doesn’t work. It’s a lie that history has proven to be a lie. Diversity is culture, not skin color.  

 

Dude, "Diversity" f__king rocks!  

 

-Diverse gene pools lead to healthier, more robust people.... Low genetic diversity can render your bloodline biologically unable to perpetuate itself.

 

-Diverse investment  portfolios help you manage financial risk better.

 

-Diverse educational experiences introduce new perspectives and ideas that make for more capable, well-rounded individuals.

 

That said,

 

Instantly Flooding a linguistically, politically, and religiously homogenous population with thousands of people who don't speak the language, don't care for the

 

local customs, and prefer their own culture to the host nation isn't diversity, but inundation, -and inundation is always problematic.

 

 

 

-

Edited June 6, 2018 by #34fan

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 hours ago, #34fan said:

 

And Syphilis.... -Although it's hard to say which was more devastating to colonial populations.

 

And who's Europe are we talking about, Anyway?

 

The Hohenzollerns? -The Habsburgs?.. Which one of the myriad nation-states, Duchy's and Grand-duchys of the Holy Roman Empire does your particular bloodline hail from?

 

Please tell me so I can laugh in your face.

 

What if I told you the awful truth?  Which is that the European continent was ALWAYS a diverse population to one degree or another. Bloodlines

 

consistently intertwined and intermarried across language a cultural lines. -And even that wasn't good enough...  Trade routes from India, china, Asia minor,

 

and the Americas enlightened European palates,drove it's fashion trends, and propelled it's innovations... Gunpowder, spices, silks, textiles, medicines, and the

 

all-important strange poonanny! Europe not only thrived on diversity, -It required diversity to advance through the ages.

 

 

Dude, "Diversity" f__king rocks!  

 

-Diverse gene pools lead to healthier, more robust people.... Low genetic diversity can render your bloodline biologically unable to perpetuate itself.

 

-Diverse investment  portfolios help you manage financial risk better.

 

-Diverse educational experiences introduce new perspectives and ideas that make for more capable, well-rounded individuals.

 

That said,

 

Instantly Flooding a linguistically, politically, and religiously homogenous population with thousands of people who don't speak the language, don't care for the

 

local customs, and prefer their own culture to the host nation isn't diversity, but inundation, -and inundation is always problematic.

 

 

 

-

 

What if there’s 11 MILLION people flooding a country that don’t speak the language?

[#34fan]

6 hours ago, joesixpack said:

 

What if there’s 11 MILLION people flooding a country that don’t speak the language?

 

If we're talking about the same thing, It's more like 15 million, and it's not a great situation either.... However, breaking up families because YOU didn't enforce the laws already on your books, seems unfair... It needs to picked through on a case-by-case basis, but first, everyone has to be located, and accounted for. -Good luck with that!

[Deranged Rhino]

16 minutes ago, #34fan said:

 

If we're talking about the same thing, It's more like 15 million, and it's not a great situation either.... However, breaking up families because YOU didn't enforce the laws already on your books, seems unfair... It needs to picked through on a case-by-case basis, but first, everyone has to be located, and accounted for. -Good luck with that!

 

So by that logic - it's not the criminal's fault he broke into the bank, it's the bank's fault for not enforcing the laws already on the books?

 

Got it.

[#34fan]

1 hour ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

So by that logic - it's not the criminal's fault he broke into the bank, it's the bank's fault for not enforcing the laws already on the books?

 

That criminal is just doing his job!

 

This bank KNEW he was coming, but did nothing to stop him, THEN left the vault open, THEN, along with the cops, WATCHED him take the money without stopping him, -who's at fault?

 

There should never be these minuteman-type hacks babysitting swathes of open border. -Your government is letting you down.

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

You're insane. 

[row_33]

he's not totally wrong, but I don't have the time and energy to unweave it all, and it's not ignore-worthy