What was the worst Bills’ trade of all time?

[BobbyC81]

On April 21, 2018 at 8:33 PM, bigK14094 said:

Way back in the 60's, the trade of Dayrll Lamonica to the Raiders for tom Flores

 

Hey, we also got the great Art Powell in that deal (Glen Bass to Oakland).  

[BringBackOrton]

30 minutes ago, Tcali said:

yeah details details;)...main thing is we made a historically horrible move getting EJ 

The pick wasn't as bad as punting on drafting another QB high for the next 5 years after.

14 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Didn't work out, but you miss all the ones you don't e swing at, right?

Exactly. Bills haven't swung since EJ and that's indicative of a much larger problem.

[cba fan]

17 hours ago, jmc12290 said:

This is true.

 

So EJ did not cost a 1st round pick

 

This is not.  It would be more accurate to say that EJ didn't cost pick #8.  But he definitely cost pick #16.  Which is in the first round.  Ergo, he cost a first round pick.  

No this is not accurate. EJ did not cost Bills the 16th pick. The 16th pick is a package of 16th pick in 1st round and and the Kiko pick and the Gragg pick.

 

Bills got EJ, Kiko, and Gragg, for the 8th pick.

 

If Bills stood pat and drafted EJ at pick 8 then yes he only cost pick 8. Since they multiplied the value of pick 8 into 3 picks the cost of EJ is spread out over the 3 picks.

 

EX: I have a house for sale for 100k, someone buys it for 100k. It cost the new buyer 100k for that house. To sweeten the deal I toss in my like new truck worth 25k and my John Deere lawn tractor worth 5k. That house now did not put him out 100k. He is only out 70k. Which is less than the 100k which is on the deed that the city assessor says he paid for it.

 

EX: I buy a box of laundry detergent for $20 and get 2nd box free on promo sale. The first box cost less than $20 as i get 2nd box also. Even though receipt says I pd $20 for that first box.

 

EX: Carolina Panthers are selling for approx. 2 billion. Reports are this includes ownership of stadium. The franchise then does not cost 2 billion. It must be broken down to a split between franchise and stadium.

Edited April 23, 2018 by cba fan

[BringBackOrton]

13 minutes ago, cba fan said:

No this is not accurate. EJ did not cost Bills the 16th pick. The 16th pick is a package of 16th pick in 1st round and and the Kiko pick and the Gragg pick.

 

Bills got EJ, Kiko, and Gragg, for the 8th pick.

 

If Bills stood pat and drafted EJ at pick 8 then yes he only cost pick 8. Since they multiplied the value of pick 8 into 3 picks the cost of EJ is spread out over the 3 picks.

 

EX: I have a house for sale for 100k, someone buys it for 100k. It cost the new buyer 100k for that house. To sweeten the deal I toss in my like new truck worth 25k and my John Deere lawn tractor worth 5k. That house now did not put him out 100k. He is only out 70k. Which is less than the 100k which is on the deed that the city assessor says he paid for it.

 

EX: I buy a box of laundry detergent for $20 and get 2nd box free on promo sale. The first box cost less than $20 as i get 2nd box also. Even though receipt says I pd $20 for that first box.

 

EX: Carolina Panthers are selling for approx. 2 billion. Reports are this includes ownership of stadium. The franchise then does not cost 2 billion. It must be broken down to a split between franchise and stadium.

How many players were selected with pick #16?  What round is pick #16 in?

[cba fan]

37 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

How many players were selected with pick #16? 

3 players, EJ, Kiko, and Gragg, were picked with pick #8. 

Edited April 23, 2018 by cba fan

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, cba fan said:

3 players, EJ, Kiko, and Gragg, were picked with pick #8. 

How many players were selected with pick #16?  Which round is pick #16 in?

[FLXbillsmafia]

I think that JP was the worst trade, at least in recent years, but another sneaky bad trade was the Ragland trade by Whaley in 2016.

 

We swapped 2nd round picks and gave away two 4th round picks to move up only 8 spots (from 49 to 41) to get Ragland (we know how that turned out).

 

One of the 4th round picks we traded was 117.  Dak Prescott was selected at 135, and considering he was tied to the Bills before the draft and given the Bills picked Cardale at 139, I think we might have had Dak had we not made this trade.

Edited April 23, 2018 by FLXbillsmafia

[cba fan]

1 hour ago, jmc12290 said:

How many players were selected with pick #16?  Which round is pick #16 in?

pick#16 was part of package of, pick 16, pick 46, and pick 222,

 

3 players, EJ, Kiko, and Gragg, were picked with pick #8

 

Can not separate them for assigning value now as they are intertwined due to trade. Pick#8 is worth pick#16, 46, 222.(that is why they assign point values for every draft pick in every round)

 

pick 16 is now inside a package of picks 16,46,222. If you must assign a value it would be approx. 70% pick 16, 25% pick 46 , and 5% pick 222. That is why cost of EJ at pick 16 cost less than a 1st round pick.

Edited April 23, 2018 by cba fan

[BringMetheHeadofLeonLett]

On 4/22/2018 at 5:03 AM, The Monk said:

Buddy was so obsolete as GM they should have had a display for him at the Smithsonian in the dinosaur section for him.   

Bull crap.  Nix was the best hire Saint Ralph made in his last 20 years of ownership.

 

Remember that Fitz/Fred/Gailey beat down on the Pats*.  We were on the upswing, and that was definitely Nix's team.  

 

It wasn't perfect, but the bitching about Nix, after what shape the team had just been through is definitely from the dumber quotient of our fanbase.

[BringMetheHeadofLeonLett]

To add, we were a fricking joke before Nix got here- we haven't been since.  Whaley got foisted upon the guy, and because it was a condition to get his one shot at being a GM in 73 years of honing his football craft, he had to take EJ's #1 fan on to be his appointed successor.  What a mess Ralph created there.  

 

I don't know Buddy Nix, but I am sick of the stupid **** some people like to belt him with.

[BringBackOrton]

24 minutes ago, cba fan said:

pick#16 was part of package of, pick 16, pick 46, and pick 222,

 

3 players, EJ, Kiko, and Gragg, were picked with pick #8

 

Can not separate them for assigning value now as they are intertwined due to trade. Pick#8 is worth pick#16, 46, 222.(that is why they assign point values for every draft pick in every round)

 

pick 16 is now inside a package of picks 16,46,222. If you must assign a value it would be approx. 70% pick 16, 25% pick 46 , and 5% pick 222. That is why cost of EJ at pick 16 cost less than a 1st round pick.

So where did pick 8 go in this bizarre thought experiment that pick 16 was only 70% of itself?

[Phils n Bills]

2 hours ago, cba fan said:

No this is not accurate. EJ did not cost Bills the 16th pick. The 16th pick is a package of 16th pick in 1st round and and the Kiko pick and the Gragg pick.

 

Bills got EJ, Kiko, and Gragg, for the 8th pick.

 

If Bills stood pat and drafted EJ at pick 8 then yes he only cost pick 8. Since they multiplied the value of pick 8 into 3 picks the cost of EJ is spread out over the 3 picks.

 

EX: I have a house for sale for 100k, someone buys it for 100k. It cost the new buyer 100k for that house. To sweeten the deal I toss in my like new truck worth 25k and my John Deere lawn tractor worth 5k. That house now did not put him out 100k. He is only out 70k. Which is less than the 100k which is on the deed that the city assessor says he paid for it.

 

EX: I buy a box of laundry detergent for $20 and get 2nd box free on promo sale. The first box cost less than $20 as i get 2nd box also. Even though receipt says I pd $20 for that first box.

 

EX: Carolina Panthers are selling for approx. 2 billion. Reports are this includes ownership of stadium. The franchise then does not cost 2 billion. It must be broken down to a split between franchise and stadium.

Who still uses “boxes” of laundry detergent much less pays 20 bucks for it? 

[Tcali]

19 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

Didn't work out, but you miss all the ones you don't e swing at, right?

BS......every person within 100 miles of the FSU campus knew that was the dumbest move of the century. You take wild swings in the 7th round...which is where he shoulda gone.

[BringMetheHeadofLeonLett]

2 minutes ago, Tcali said:

BS......every person within 100 miles of the FSU campus knew that was the dumbest move of the century. You take wild swings in the 7th round...which is where he shoulda gone.

9th round in a 7 round draft if you ask me.  I watched him.

[Carter]

Glenn and Watkins trade are both horrendous.

 

The captain(Darius) was almost as bad. 

 

TRod ranks up there also. 

 

This draft could be the final nail for beane. Honeymoon is over. 

[BringBackOrton]

2 minutes ago, cba fan said:

Pick 8 was traded for pick 16 46 and 222.

 

Pick 16 was only approx 70% of pick 8.

 

Have you never heard of point value chart for NFL draft picks? Bizarre man.

 

Anyone who thinks first pick in round 1 is worth any later pick in round one is an unemployed GM.

All picks in round one are first round picks.  You admit EJ was taken with pick #16 and thus cost a first round pick!  Eureka.

[cba fan]

13 minutes ago, Phils n Bills said:

Who still uses “boxes” of laundry detergent much less pays 20 bucks for it? 

No one.

Edited April 23, 2018 by cba fan

[Phils n Bills]

The Darwin Walker trade, although not the worst trade ever, was pretty terrible and embarrassing. 

[cba fan]

3 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

All picks in round one are first round picks.  You admit EJ was taken with pick #16 and thus cost a first round pick!  Eureka.

Pick 8 was traded for pick 16 46 and 222. Therefor pick 16 was worth less than a first round pick if you want to try and assign value for that 1/3 of the package when evaluating the trade and the pick.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 23, 2018 by cba fan

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, cba fan said:

Pick 8 was traded for pick 16 46 and 222. Therefor pick 16 was worth less than a first round pick if you wan to try and assign value for that 1/3 of the package.

 

 

 

 

Pick 16 was worth less than pick 8.  But they were both first round picks.

 

You cannot cost "less" than a first round pick unless you are a pick in, you guessed it, the second or later round.

 

Did anyone tell the Saints that their pick #15 of Kenny Vaccaro didn't cost them a first round pick?

[cba fan]

8 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Pick 16 was worth less than pick 8.  But they were both first round picks.

 

You cannot cost "less" than a first round pick unless you are a pick in, you guessed it, the second or later round.

 

Did anyone tell the Saints that their pick #15 of Kenny Vaccaro didn't cost them a first round pick?

Yes they were both 1st round picks. But since EJ was a part of a 3 pick package EJ cost much less than a first round pick.

for the 8th pick Bills received EJ KiKo and Gragg.

for the 15th pick Saints received K Vaccaro.

 

what is greater 3 or 1  ?

 

?? Kenny Vaccaro was not part of a trade so he cost 100% of a #15 1st round pick. EJ only cost a portion of his draft positon.

Edited April 23, 2018 by cba fan

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, cba fan said:

Yes they were both 1st round picks. But since EJ was a part of a 3 pick package EJ cost much less than a first round pick.

for the 8th pick Bills received EJ KiKo and Gragg.

for the 15th pick Saints received K Vaccaro.

 

what is greater 3 or 1  ?

 

?? Kenny Vaccaro was not part of a trade so he cost a 1st round pick. 

Yes but the 15th pick is worth less than the 8th pick so Kenny cost less than a first round pick.

[cba fan]

1 minute ago, jmc12290 said:

Yes but the 15th pick is worth less than the 8th pick so Kenny cost less than a first round pick.

not unless he was traded for multiple picks.

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, cba fan said:

not unless he was traded for multiple picks.

But the pick was used in the first round to draft that player.  

 

The Bills could have drafted a lot of players with their first round pick at #16.  They drafted EJ.  They could no longer draft anybody with pick #16.  Because it was used to draft EJ.  The drafting of EJ was done with pick #16.  Pick #16 is in the first round.  They no longer could draft a player with pick #16.  Pick #16 was spent, used, bartered, offered, to draft EJ.  EJ was drafted, selected, picked, acquired with pick #16.  Pick #16 is a first round pick.  EJ cost a first round pick, which is pick #16, which is a first round pick.  There is no such thing as less than a first round pick in the first round.  They are all first round picks, with differences in value.  But they are all first round picks.  Or else they would be picks in other rounds.  Every player in the history of the NFL drafted in the first round cost AT LEAST the first round pick used to select them.  You cannot be drafted in the first round without costing a first round pick.  Or else you wouldn't be drafted in the first round.  

 

Pick 1 and pick 32 are both first round picks.  Every single player drafted 1- 32 cost picks 1-32.  Picks 1 - 32 are first round picks.  The first round consists of picks 1-32.  

[cba fan]

1 minute ago, jmc12290 said:

But the pick was used in the first round to draft that player.  

 

The Bills could have drafted a lot of players with their first round pick at #16.  They drafted EJ.  They could no longer draft anybody with pick #16.  Because it was used to draft EJ.  The drafting of EJ was done with pick #16.  Pick #16 is in the first round.  They no longer could draft a player with pick #16.  Pick #16 was spent, used, bartered, offered, to draft EJ.  EJ was drafted, selected, picked, acquired with pick #16.  Pick #16 is a first round pick.  EJ cost a first round pick, which is pick #16, which is a first round pick.  There is no such thing as less than a first round pick in the first round.  They are all first round picks, with differences in value.  But they are all first round picks.  Or else they would be picks in other rounds.  Every player in the history of the NFL drafted in the first round cost AT LEAST the first round pick used to select them.  You cannot be drafted in the first round without costing a first round pick.  Or else you wouldn't be drafted in the first round.  

 

Pick 1 and pick 32 are both first round picks.  Every single player drafted 1- 32 cost picks 1-32.  Picks 1 - 32 are first round picks.  The first round consists of picks 1-32.  

I give you Vaccaro at 15

or EJ package.

 

Who gets more players?? Bills do, they get 3 players Saints get 1.

Aside from whiffing on EJ as a pick. Bills got better value.

 

I have not ever argued that pick 16 was not a first round pick. IT is PART of a PACKAGE so has different value.

[The Crowing Rooster]

1 hour ago, BringMetheHeadofLeonLett said:

Bull crap.  Nix was the best hire Saint Ralph made in his last 20 years of ownership.

 

Remember that Fitz/Fred/Gailey beat down on the Pats*.  We were on the upswing, and that was definitely Nix's team.  

 

It wasn't perfect, but the bitching about Nix, after what shape the team had just been through is definitely from the dumber quotient of our fanbase.

 

[dollars 2 donuts]

On April 21, 2018 at 11:53 PM, KzooMike said:

On the opposite side of the spectrum. How the hell did we get the 23rd pick for Peerless Price? ?

 

 

Along that same line how in the hell did the Sabres get a first rounder from nashville for Paul Gaustad?!

[BringBackOrton]

1 hour ago, cba fan said:

I give you Vaccaro at 15

or EJ package.

 

Who gets more players?? Bills do, they get 3 players Saints get 1.

Aside from whiffing on EJ as a pick. Bills got better value.

 

I have not ever argued that pick 16 was not a first round pick. IT is PART of a PACKAGE so has different value.

EJ cost a first round pick.  Stop railing against reality.

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, cba fan said:

reality is he did not.

Who was taken with the #16 pick again?  What round is the #16 pick in?

 

The answer:  EJ.  1.

 

Irrefutably.

Edited April 24, 2018 by jmc12290

[cba fan]

EJ, Kiko, and Gragg, cost ONE 1st round pick.

 

There is your reality.

[Ol Dirty B]

On 4/22/2018 at 2:07 AM, Tcali said:

the list is nearly endless...........but rob johnson trade,,,darryl lamonica trade,jp losman.............EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJJ move up...

 

startling bad decisons for a startlingly poor franchise.

 

Lou,Knox,Polian......the rest were garbage

 

They didn't trade up for EJ. They traded down for an extra second that became either woods or kiko.

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, cba fan said:

EJ, Kiko, and Gragg, cost ONE 1st round pick.

 

There is your reality.

Who was selected with the #16 pick?

[cba fan]

1 minute ago, jmc12290 said:

Who was selected with the #16 pick?

EJ as a part of package of EJ, Kiko, Gragg.

Edited April 24, 2018 by cba fan

[KD in CA]

Just now, jmc12290 said:

Who was selected with the #16 pick?

 

EJ.   The Bills traded the 8th pick, which was used to pick a big TSW pre-draft favorite:   Tavon Austin.

 

But it coulda been worse.  If the Bills had done their usual 'draft a CB' routine they might have stolen Dee Milner from the Jets!  

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, cba fan said:

EJ as a part of package of EJ, Kiko, Gragg.

Actually, when we drafted EJ, the other two were still undrafted.

 

Only one player was drafted #16 overall.  Who was it?

Just now, KD in CA said:

 

EJ.   The Bills traded the 8th pick, which was used to pick a big TSW pre-draft favorite:   Tavon Austin.

 

But it coulda been worse.  If the Bills had done their usual 'draft a CB' routine they might have stolen Dee Milner from the Jets!  

Weird but true story, both the 2013 NFL and NBA drafts were the worst in decades.  What were parents in 1990-1993 doing?

[cba fan]

1 minute ago, jmc12290 said:

Actually, when we drafted EJ, the other two were still undrafted.

 

Only one player was drafted #16 overall.  Who was it?

EJ as part of package of 16 46 and 222.

 

 

Edited April 24, 2018 by cba fan

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, cba fan said:

EJ as part of package of 16 46 and 222.

 

 

We drafted two draft picks AND EJ with pick #16?  Weird, do you have footage of how Roger announced that?

[cba fan]

1 minute ago, jmc12290 said:

We drafted two draft picks AND EJ with pick #16?  Weird, do you have footage of how Roger announced that?

Yes. He announced live on tv for all the world to see except you missed it. He stated Bills and Rams traded #8 for #16 46 and 222.

Edited April 24, 2018 by cba fan

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, cba fan said:

Yes. He announced live on tv for all the owrld to see except you missed it. He stated Bills and Rams traded #8 for #16 46 and 222.

That was 8 picks earlier.  

 

I'm pretty sure he only announced one name at pick #16.  Do you remember that name?

[cba fan]

 

Just now, jmc12290 said:

That was 8 picks earlier.  

 

I'm pretty sure he only announced one name at pick #16.  Do you remember that name?

yes.

Edited April 24, 2018 by cba fan