MrEpsYtown Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Just now, GunnerBill said: Well they are just wrong. My grade on Peterman was a bordlerline 7th / UDFA. He sucked as an NFL prospect. Rudolph is a significantly better prospect and some NFL.com person disagreeing changes my mind not one iota. The point is that Rudolph is not as good as people are making him out to be. Peterman sucks and so does Rudolph. They both suck and are in no way a long term answer for this franchise. People need to stop with the Rudolph. Watch the film. Go find me a quarterback like this guy who has succeeded in the league. He is slow, tiny hands, weak arm, baby offense, terrible footwork. It's nuts. This guy is a 3-4 round pick. 2 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: This is right where I'm at as well. I will trust the decision of McD and Beane is they decide to gamble or roll the dice on this kid. Listen man I'm with you. I will support the team no matter what. I just don't understand how all of these scouts and journalist and draft analysts can be wrong on Rudolph and people on a message board are right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: The point is that Rudolph is not as good as people are making him out to be. Peterman sucks and so does Rudolph. They both suck and are in no way a long term answer for this franchise. People need to stop with the Rudolph. Watch the film. Go find me a quarterback like this guy who has succeeded in the league. He is slow, tiny hands, weak arm, baby offense, terrible footwork. It's nuts. This guy is a 3-4 round pick. I disagree he sucks. I think his arm while no cannon is good enough, I think his footwork is okay though clearly he needs work under centre and I think the offense is the biggest concern but you have to test that when you have him in. And I have watched the film. 12 complete games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I disagree he sucks. I think his arm while no cannon is good enough, I think his footwork is okay though clearly he needs work under centre and I think the offense is the biggest concern but you have to test that when you have him in. And I have watched the film. 12 complete games. Ok fair. You see an upside I don't see. But what about all of the draft experts and scouts etc.? The people who get paid to do this for a living. Are you saying they are all wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: The point is that Rudolph is not as good as people are making him out to be. Peterman sucks and so does Rudolph. They both suck and are in no way a long term answer for this franchise. People need to stop with the Rudolph. Watch the film. Go find me a quarterback like this guy who has succeeded in the league. He is slow, tiny hands, weak arm, baby offense, terrible footwork. It's nuts. This guy is a 3-4 round pick. Listen man I'm with you. I will support the team no matter what. I just don't understand how all of these scouts and journalist and draft analysts can be wrong on Rudolph and people on a message board are right. It's due to the Bottom line I highlighted below. BOTTOM LINE Pocket quarterback with good size who has shown consistent improvement as a passer. Rudolph is more of a downfield, play-action passer than a quarterback who can win with precision and arm strength. He's a capable field reader who has the ability to operate with timing which will be important since his arm can be dull at times. Rudolph could be an early backup with the potential of becoming an average to below average starter in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: It's due to the Bottom line I highlighted below. BOTTOM LINE Pocket quarterback with good size who has shown consistent improvement as a passer. Rudolph is more of a downfield, play-action passer than a quarterback who can win with precision and arm strength. He's a capable field reader who has the ability to operate with timing which will be important since his arm can be dull at times. Rudolph could be an early backup with the potential of becoming an average to below average starter in the league. Not sure what you are saying here...he plays from the pocket, has improved, has good size. He CAN'T win with precision and arm strength and is a down the field passer. What about: Rudolph could be an early backup with the potential of becoming an average to below average starter in the league. Is this what we are striving for? average to below average starter? We just traded one of those to Cleveland. Look, I'm not an expert. I'm a teacher and a high school football coach, been doing it 12 years. I watch a ton of film and sit in clinics with college coaches all of the time. I am no one special, but I know some things. I do know that I don't know more than general managers, scouts, NFL people. It's fun to chat about these things, but how people can think that all of these experts are wrong just doesn't make sense to me. How can everyone be wrong on Josh Allen, who we all hate here, and everyone also be wrong on Mason Rudolph, who we all love? I mean, it's lunacy. Mason Rudolph=Tom Brady...don't you think someone in the NFL would have noticed this if it was true? I mean c'mon. Edited March 18, 2018 by MrEpsYtown 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: Not sure what you are saying here...he plays from the pocket, has improved, has good size. He CAN'T win with precision and arm strength and is a down the field passer. What about: Rudolph could be an early backup with the potential of becoming an average to below average starter in the league. Is this what we are striving for? average to below average starter? We just traded one of those to Cleveland. Sounds like this guy to me: Athletic passer with solid physical skills. Quickly sets up with good pass placement, immediately gets the ball off on a three-step drop or easily passes on the move. Times the outs well, zips throws to the flanks or puts the ball in front of targets, giving receivers a chance. Goes to the safe underneath route if nothing else is available. Stands strong in the pocket and buys time for receivers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 It's not good when a prospect compares to Tom Brady. The reason Brady was a 6th Round Pick was because there was literally nothing special about him in college. He wasn't athletic. He didn't have a strong arm. He had a skinny frame. He only showed moderate accuracy and decent ability to read defenses. He was never dominant and spent most of his time in school on the bench. Brady became great because he drastically improved every single aspect of his game. He didn't succeed despite having average accuracy. He succeeded by becoming one of the most accurate QBs to ever play. Most prospects only make moderate improvements once they hit the pros... if they manage to make them at all. Most prospects are like EJ Manuel. The guy he was at Florida State was the guy we saw during his career in Buffalo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: Not sure what you are saying here...he plays from the pocket, has improved, has good size. He CAN'T win with precision and arm strength and is a down the field passer. What about: Rudolph could be an early backup with the potential of becoming an average to below average starter in the league. Is this what we are striving for? average to below average starter? We just traded one of those to Cleveland. Look, I'm not an expert. I'm a teacher and a high school football coach, been doing it 12 years. I watch a ton of film and sit in clinics with college coaches all of the time. I am no one special, but I know some things. I do know that I don't know more than general managers, scouts, NFL people. It's fun to chat about these things, but how people can think that all of these experts are wrong just doesn't make sense to me. How can everyone be wrong on Josh Allen, who we all hate here, and everyone also be wrong on Mason Rudolph, who we all love? I mean, it's lunacy. Mason Rudolph=Tom Brady...don't you think someone in the NFL would have noticed this if it was true? I mean c'mon. It says can win not can't? The part I highlighted is the upside that makes him interesting. He seems to be getting better and better and no one truly knows his ceiling. How can anyone say average to below average starter when his ceiling is not defined? Look, I'm not a Mason ball washer, he sits around 5th or 6th for me. You can't deny his upside. Edited March 18, 2018 by Real McCoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 (edited) Where would you guys rank Mason Rudolph if he was in the 2019 draft? Unless somebody rises up my list, I think if Rudolph came out in 2019, only Drew Lock would go ahead of him. Edited March 18, 2018 by NewDayBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: It says can win not can't? The part I highlighted is the upside that makes him interesting. He seems to be getting better and better and no one truly knows his ceiling. How can anyone say average to below average starter when his ceiling is not defined? Look, I'm not a Mason ball washer, he sits around 5th or 6th for me. You can't deny his upside. It says: Rudolph is more of a downfield, play-action passer than a quarterback who can win with precision and arm strength. That means he can't win with precision and arm strength. So he is a downfield play action passer...he can't win with precision and arm strength. That means he's throwing bombs to outside , wide open receivers. That isn't winning football, at least it won't work in the NFL. I don't see the upside. Is the fifth or sixth best guy in this class? Sure. But he's a 3-4th round pick to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: It says: Rudolph is more of a downfield, play-action passer than a quarterback who can win with precision and arm strength. That means he can't win with precision and arm strength. So he is a downfield play action passer...he can't win with precision and arm strength. That means he's throwing bombs to outside , wide open receivers. That isn't winning football, at least it won't work in the NFL. I don't see the upside. Is the fifth or sixth best guy in this class? Sure. But he's a 3-4th round pick to me. I respect your opinion man. I can see him going 2nd - 3rd, I have a feeling the Pats might try and snag him as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Real McCoy said: I respect your opinion man. I can see him going 2nd - 3rd, I have a feeling the Pats might try and snag him as well. Same here. I appreciate it. We can all agree to disagree for sure. I think it's possible there is a long wait. This draft reminds me of the Mariota-Winston draft. I can see 4-5 guys going pretty high, then a super long wait for the next tier. That year quarterbacks went 1-2 and the next guy went #75. I think Rudolph might be in for a long wait. I could see the Chargers, Pats, Steelers, people with older quarterbacks drafting the guy in the third. I just think with all of the free agents signed and 4 sure fire #1 picks, people aren't going to want to spend 2nd round picks on the next tier. There is too much positional talent in this draft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 (edited) People will be quick to tell you how much Lamar Jackson has improved from year to year, but will completely ignore Rudolph's progression, when he is CLEARLY a better passer. If the Bills stay put, I hope they take him at 22. A year on the bench behind AJ and we could really have something special. 1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said: Lance Zierlein says Christian Ponder. I think I'll go with him. He says: BOTTOM LINE Pocket quarterback with good size who has shown consistent improvement as a passer. Rudolph is more of a downfield, play-action passer than a quarterback who can win with precision and arm strength. He's a capable field reader who has the ability to operate with timing which will be important since his arm can be dull at times. Rudolph could be an early backup with the potential of becoming an average to below average starter in the league. I've heard this a few times as well and it's an awful comparison! You can draw similarities on arm strength, but that's where the comparison ends. The two are nothing alike. Ponder was always terrible, even in college. Drove me nuts, Bills fans clamoring for him. Edited March 18, 2018 by Chicken Boo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 (edited) 57 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: Ok fair. You see an upside I don't see. But what about all of the draft experts and scouts etc.? The people who get paid to do this for a living. Are you saying they are all wrong? Well they don't all hate him. But I have no problem with my opinion differing from the consensus. It has been plenty of times before. I have faith in my process sometimes I am wrong more often than not I am pretty close. I will have no problem holding my hands up if I am wrong. I do see his floor as a backup type... Matt Moore esque I just don't see that as the ceiling the way you obviously do. Edited March 18, 2018 by GunnerBill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said: People will be quick to tell you how much Lamar Jackson has improved from year to year, but will completely ignore Rudolph's progression, when he is CLEARLY a better passer. If the Bills stay put, I hope they take him at 22. A year on the bench behind AJ and we could really have something special. The argument is always going to be that Jackson is a premiere athlete. He has ridiculous athletic upside, which is not the case with Rudolph. They are completely different entities. So Rudolph may be the better passer, but you have to look at the whole package. It awesome when an athlete like Jackson improves his passing ability because it shows he might be able to play quarterback, When the 6-5 guy who runs a 4.9 does it, it really isn't a big deal. It's about upside and projection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 15 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: Same here. I appreciate it. We can all agree to disagree for sure. I think it's possible there is a long wait. This draft reminds me of the Mariota-Winston draft. I can see 4-5 guys going pretty high, then a super long wait for the next tier. That year quarterbacks went 1-2 and the next guy went #75. I think Rudolph might be in for a long wait. I could see the Chargers, Pats, Steelers, people with older quarterbacks drafting the guy in the third. I just think with all of the free agents signed and 4 sure fire #1 picks, people aren't going to want to spend 2nd round picks on the next tier. There is too much positional talent in this draft. This is where I see him as well and prob would most benefit from sitting behind a Ben, Brady, Brees or Smith a couple years. The same also applies to J.Allen IMO. I personally think we need a more sure fire option right now. If we did say take Allen or Mason and try to plug them in right away we would most likely break them as they need some time to develop. I can't wait until 4/26 draft day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Just now, Real McCoy said: This is where I see him as well and prob would most benefit from sitting behind a Ben, Brady, Brees or Smith a couple years. The same also applies to J.Allen IMO. I personally think we need a more sure fire option right now. If we did say take Allen or Mason and try to plug them in right away we would most likely break them as they need some time to develop. I can't wait until 4/26 draft day... Yep. Some team is going to ruin Josh Allen by starting him too soon. It's going to be depressing and it is probably going to be the Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelle Getty Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Get out of here w that TBrady talk. He is Patrick Ramsey 2.0, Blaine Gabbert 3.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 1 minute ago, MrEpsYtown said: Yep. Some team is going to ruin Josh Allen by starting him too soon. It's going to be depressing and it is probably going to be the Jets. LOL let the Jets fail then In their defense they have a nice Bridge scenario for whomever they bring in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: LOL let the Jets fail then In their defense they have a nice Bridge scenario for whomever they bring in. They are definitely going to blow it! Even their fans know it. They would have messed up Peyton Manning if he came out his junior year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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