SNICE Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Finding a loophole around the dead cap hit is not the problem, i.e. placing on IR, or some of the other option, some posted here. Having the balls to do it is the question. I know one team that exploits every option available. It’s a decision that would need to be made by the Pegulas. Those bastards from Boston would do it, Pegs will not. Changing the rule to no cap hit for injury retirement would only incent huge paydays at end of career and everyone would retire ‘injured’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 4 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: He signed an extension that guaranteed his contract if injured... bad lingo in contract is why we have the cap hit Isn't that Jim Overdorf's responsibility? Why would such a clause be included IF he has previous degenerative neck damage. It is time for Jim Overdorf to be let go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Ammendment NoMas Posted January 28, 2018 Author Share Posted January 28, 2018 17 hours ago, Limeaid said: Isn't that Jim Overdorf's responsibility? Why would such a clause be included IF he has previous degenerative neck damage. It is time for Jim Overdorf to be let go? If it is Jim's problem, he should be let go. The team should have known about this neck condition for awhile if it was degenerative. This kind of problem is like losing 2-3 starters. You lose your star player and any potential FA replacements. In Wood's case we could have signed 2 guys at 4m per and got some quality vets at need positions. Losing the cap hurts just as much, if not more than losing Wood. They have to make sure this NEVER happens again on a contract. Between Wood and Dareus, that's a lot of dead money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 Bottom line..........never was any reason to extend Eric Wood's contract. Didn't need the cap space. Utter stupidity by team McD. That and the McCoy incentives were reminiscent of the Buddy Nix/Chris Kelsay "good soldier" contract extension. This Wood situation really came back to bite them. Hopefully someone within the organization writes it down this time so they don't forget not to do stupid **** like that again. On the plus side Ryan Groy is probably the better player and should have been starting anyway and they have him for one more year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddo Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 I think you have to view the cap hit, in respect of a gamble teams take, to spread the load out over multiple years. I doubt that there's a team in the league, that wouldn't have to take a big cap hit, if one of their better players, was forced to hang 'em up through injury. As to the nature of contracts being guaranteed for injury, well, if they weren't, guys wouldn't be signing them very often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yav Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 On 1/27/2018 at 11:39 AM, Buffalo716 said: He signed an extension that guaranteed his contract if injured... bad lingo in contract is why we have the cap hit I disagree. Nothing wrong with a guarantee due to injury. Dude can't earn a living in his profession and the Bills are taking care of him. I have no issues with this, he's been a great team player and leader, the team took care of him and he's now done with football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 (edited) On 1/27/2018 at 9:39 AM, Buffalo716 said: He signed an extension that guaranteed his contract if injured... bad lingo in contract is why we have the cap hit You should introduce us all to the players who don't want guarenteed money in case of injury... You could field a team with ZERO players Edited January 29, 2018 by ddaryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 On 1/27/2018 at 10:17 AM, BillsRdue said: I was just reading that the Bills will take the 8.2 million cap hit in 2018 because of Wood's retirement. Retirement due to a career-ending injury should not be a cap hit. I think it is unfair that the league punish a team like this. The poor guy is not cleared to play, so why do we end up taking a hit? Is there any way the Bills can make a move like putting him on IR or medical leave or something so we do not take the hit? I concur that this should be looked at. In a league designed around parity, this seems like an issue. like a workers comp or disability insurance type of set up, where a player declared perminately unable to play football has their contract payout managed outside of the cap by an independent third party who has a vested interest in vetting the medical opinion to reduce cap dodging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaviorPeterman Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 On 1/27/2018 at 2:18 PM, Limeaid said: Isn't that Jim Overdorf's responsibility? Why would such a clause be included IF he has previous degenerative neck damage. It is time for Jim Overdorf to be let go? Still have no idea why this clown is employed by the Pegulas. Oh wait nevermind it's because his good buddy Russ Brandon insisted on it. (who also should be long gone). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 1 hour ago, ddaryl said: You should introduce us all to the players who don't want guarenteed money in case of injury... You could field a team with ZERO players 1 hour ago, Yav said: I disagree. Nothing wrong with a guarantee due to injury. Dude can't earn a living in his profession and the Bills are taking care of him. I have no issues with this, he's been a great team player and leader, the team took care of him and he's now done with football. I dont know what you disagree with because I never said I was against it lol its not common lingo in NFL contracts and I stated that's why we are Paying him there are are lots of guys who don't get guaranteed contracts to injury in the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: I dont know what you disagree with because I never said I was against it lol its not common lingo in NFL contracts and I stated that's why we are Paying him there are are lots of guys who don't get guaranteed contracts to injury in the NFL On 1/27/2018 at 9:39 AM, Buffalo716 said: He signed an extension that guaranteed his contract if injured... bad lingo in contract is why we have the cap hit You suggested it was bad lingo and why we have taken a cap hit. I think it very very much common lingo.. and the few who do not already have KNOWN issues or situations. .Woods' situation was not known so he signed a very stereotypical extension that gave him some guaernteed money like the majority of players all do. How many players sign contracts that remove guarentee money if they get injured ??????????????????????? Sounds like the one thing no player would ever want sign to play this game IMO Edited January 29, 2018 by ddaryl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Just now, ddaryl said: You suggested it was bad lingo and why we have taken a cap hit. I think it very very much common lingo.. and the few who do not already have KNOWN issues or situations. .Woods' situation was not known so he signed avery stereotypical extension that gave him some guarnteed moeny like the majority of players all do I said bad lingo left us with a huge cap hit... not that it's bad that we are taking care of wood having his cap hit does hurt the bills... and guaranteeing contract because injury is not standard practice... he must of asked for it in the deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddaryl Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said: I said bad lingo left us with a huge cap hit... not that it's bad that we are taking care of wood having his cap hit does hurt the bills... and guaranteeing contract because injury is not standard practice... he must of asked for it in the deal disagree .. its pretty standard practice... Name 1 agent that would allow his client to do otherwise. Name some of the contracts that remove money if someone gets injured and can't play. Also what bad lingo in the contract... If any team was to cut any of their top played players 1/2 way thorugh a contract or have that player medically retire in th emiddle of the deal they would all be left with significant cap hits. So what bad lingo are you referring to that is unsual in your eyes ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, ddaryl said: disagree .. its pretty standard practice... Name 1 agent that would allow his client to do otherwise. Name some of the contracts that remove money if someone gets injured and can't play. Also what bad lingo in the contract... If any team was to cut any of their top played players 1/2 way thorugh a contract or have that player medically retire in th emiddle of the deal they would all be left with significant cap hits. So what bad lingo are you referring to that is unsual in your eyes ? The NFL doesn't guarantee contracts. players retire all the time because injury and their teams don't get hit with cap hits... i have always been under that assumption unless you can show me that it happens a lot i was never under that assumption... NFL contracts were never guaranteed unless the player got special verbiage Edited January 29, 2018 by Buffalo716 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 On 1/27/2018 at 10:17 AM, BillsRdue said: I was just reading that the Bills will take the 8.2 million cap hit in 2018 because of Wood's retirement. Retirement due to a career-ending injury should not be a cap hit. I think it is unfair that the league punish a team like this. The poor guy is not cleared to play, so why do we end up taking a hit? Is there any way the Bills can make a move like putting him on IR or medical leave or something so we do not take the hit? It is collectively bargained, it is fair and affects all teams at some point. It is all money that was paid to a player and goes on the cap accordingly. It is not a punishment, his contract had an injury guarantee, the Bills agreed to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 7 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: The NFL doesn't guarantee contracts. players retire all the time because injury and their teams don't get hit with cap hits... i have always been under that assumption unless you can show me that it happens a lot i was never under that assumption... NFL contracts were never guaranteed NFL contracts are not all guaranteed like baseball but there are often guarantees that both sides agree to. For instance, I am sure you have heard something like 4 years 24 million 14 million guaranteed. It is not uncommon to have an additional guarantee due to injury that never makes the headlines. The truth is the 14 million guaranteed part is often more complicated than one might assume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Just now, mattynh said: NFL contracts are not all guaranteed like baseball but there are often guarantees that both sides agree to. For instance, I am sure you have heard something like 4 years 24 million 14 million guaranteed. It is not uncommon to have an additional guarantee due to injury that never makes the headlines. The truth is the 14 million guaranteed part is often more complicated than one might assume. I fully understand that... i am also talking guaranteeing a contract because injury. That is not standard in the NFL Agents need to work that into a deal and teams usually don't go for it unless it is a leader and captain like wood his cap hit will hurt us. That was my only point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: I fully understand that... i am also talking guaranteeing a contract because injury. That is not standard in the NFL Agents need to work that into a deal and teams usually don't go for it unless it is a leader and captain like wood his cap hit will hurt us. That was my only point I think it is more common than you may be thinking but not all players have injury guarantees. I just read that top 20 picks have fully guaranteed contracts for performance and injury each year. Plus I am sure a lot of second and third contract have injury guarantees. In fact you often hear how much is guaranteed and a smaller amount is "Fully guarateed" (ie for injury). https://www.quora.com/Do-NFL-players-get-paid-fully-if-they-are-injured Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 3 minutes ago, mattynh said: I think it is more common than you may be thinking but not all players have injury guarantees. I just read that top 20 picks have fully guaranteed contracts for performance and injury each year. Plus I am sure a lot of second and third contract have injury guarantees. In fact you often hear how much is guaranteed and a smaller amount is "Fully guarateed" (ie for injury). https://www.quora.com/Do-NFL-players-get-paid-fully-if-they-are-injured Only the top 20 get guaranteed fully.... Nobody else in the league does unless your agent gets it for you and teams dont like giving it out... I bet their is only 1 other player on the bills that has a contract gurarteed for injury... kyle Williams... maybe not even because it's never been reported that it was. its not that common Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 22 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Only the top 20 get guaranteed fully.... Nobody else in the league does unless your agent gets it for you and teams dont like giving it out... I bet their is only 1 other player on the bills that has a contract gurarteed for injury... kyle Williams... maybe not even because it's never been reported that it was. its not that common I dont know how common it is and cant find the numbers online easily but there are probably at least 100 players in the league with injury guarantees. 80 would be from the last 4 drafts and then others like Wood. Regardless, the Bills signed on the dotted line so there is no recourse right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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