Would you be against the Bills bringing in Eli AND drafting a QB in the first round?

[BuffaloHokie13]

52 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

Thank you. It is appreciated.

 

However, it begins a different part about the significance of those stats. Obviously, Tyrod is much, much more elusive and fast, but it would be great to know ( and I don't think anyone has taken the time to do this) how many of those rushing yards were due to him waiting too long in the pocket? When he was essentially forced to run because he didn't get the ball out on time? In Eli's case, nearly everyone of those kinds will turn into an incomplete pass or a sack, so that's just something I wonder....not asking you specifically to know that or find out, I'm just more curious....and it doesn't have to be Eli, it can be any other standard QB who doesn't run much or often.

I understand it's gross career numbers, but I was shocked to see that Eli's combined rushing and sack yards came out to -1,900 yards over his career

[GoBills808]

22 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

So head coaching changes, as well as their decision to fire an OC during the season, has nothing to do with this?  I doubt Tyrod tells the FO "This OC sucks, get rid of him." 

Have to agree with Kirby that Tyrod hasn't changed, he's still the same player he was two years ago.

I think there's a pattern of regression, personally. It's arguable, but his ANY/A in 2015 put him 9th best in the league. In 2016 he slid to 18th, and this year he's at 21st. Some will attribute this to the offensive coordinator(s), others will just as viably (IMO) attribute it to opposing defensive coordinators. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I think there's a pattern of regression, personally. It's arguable, but his ANY/A in 2015 put him 9th best in the league. In 2016 he slid to 18th, and this year he's at 21st. Some will attribute this to the offensive coordinator(s), others will just as viably (IMO) attribute it to opposing defensive coordinators. 

Definitely a negative trend. Also potentially correlated with the amount of talent on the field around him. We've had discussion about my system previously, in 2015 he was a 78.7 (13th), 2016 he was 72.9 (14th), this year he's 69.4 (17th among starters with Watson, Rodgers, and Palmer having higher ratings prior to injury).

Edited November 30, 2017 by BuffaloHokie13

[SoTier]

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I do agree that that it is a challenge to tailor your scheme (no pun intended) to your talent but I just watched Andy Reid, Doug Pederson and Bill O’Brien do it. Why can’t Dennison? If the answer is “because he isn’t very good” it just proves my point.

 

   This is what makes me angriest about the Bills this year.  It's like they (the FO and at least some of the coaching staff like Dennison) decided that since the players Bills had didn't fit their pre-conceived ideas of what they wanted, they basically gave up on the season despite the fact that the Bills played pretty well the first half of the season.  That's an insult to the players and to the fans. 

[BringBackOrton]

20 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

What if there's no QB worth drafting left by the time the Bills pick in the first round?  To say, "they better draft a QB in the first round" without even knowing which QBs will actually be availabe for the draft seems foolhardy to me and smacks of just drafting a QB to please the fans.  The Bills, of course, will probably do it ... they seem to have drafted Losman and Manuel for just that reason.

 

FYI: between  2000 and 2015, there have been as many as 4 QBs go in the first round but only in 2004 did as many as 3 of the first rounders become top QBs.  2005 (Smith, Rodgers), 2008 (Ryan, Flacco), and 2012 (Luck, Tannehill) had 2 first rounders who were keepers.  You might include 2015 (Winston, Mariota) as well but neither one has made enough progress to say they "top QBs" right now.  2002, 2006, 2007, 2010, and 2013 didn't produce any franchise QBs from any round, and 2014 looks to be another dud unless Teddy Bridgewater not only comes back from a devastating injury but also plays significantly better than he did early in his career.

 

 

Drafting JP and EJ wouldn't have been so bad if the Bills weren't idiots.

[BuffaloHokie13]

24 minutes ago, SoTier said:

What if there's no QB worth drafting left by the time the Bills pick in the first round?  To say, "they better draft a QB in the first round" without even knowing which QBs will actually be availabe for the draft seems foolhardy to me and smacks of just drafting a QB to please the fans.  The Bills, of course, will probably do it ... they seem to have drafted Losman and Manuel for just that reason.

 

FYI: between  2000 and 2015, there have been as many as 4 QBs go in the first round but only in 2004 did as many as 3 of the first rounders become top QBs.  2005 (Smith, Rodgers), 2008 (Ryan, Flacco), and 2012 (Luck, Tannehill) had 2 first rounders who were keepers.  You might include 2015 (Winston, Mariota) as well but neither one has made enough progress to say they "top QBs" right now.  2002, 2006, 2007, 2010, and 2013 didn't produce any franchise QBs from any round, and 2014 looks to be another dud unless Teddy Bridgewater not only comes back from a devastating injury but also plays significantly better than he did early in his career.

Tannehill shouldn't really count either, if we're being honest.

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, BigBuff423 said:

 

"Superior player"....if you count rushing yards, fine....if you say he is the better athlete, no argument here....

 

But "superior" QB, oh hell to the no. QBs are supposed to pass the ball to their WRs and TEs, use the RB by design and occasionally a dump-off...hit all areas of the field, read a Defense and audible....oh Dear God, here I go again....it's fine. You like Tyrod, I don't....this is like beating my balls with a meat hammer....

 

There was a discussion about this a while back, and numerous posters made persuasive arguments that over his entire career, Eli has been a very average QB.  He's had seasons and parts of seasons in which he's been marvelously great but other seasons and parts of seasons when he's stunk up the stadium.  He's just not a superior QB who might have a bad game or 2 in a season the way his brother was or the way QBs like Rodgers, Brady, Brees, and Rivers are.  He has bad games in bunches.

[Putin]

4 hours ago, njbuff said:

I say do it the right way and bring in Eli and draft a first round QB. Let that first round QB sit for two years.

 

And by all heck, get Eli an OL here. The Bills will have the draft capital and salary cap space to do so.

 

Might be too much to ask as I really don't know if Eli has anything left in the tank and if he does he is certainly a better QB than Taylor.

 

Also, I don't know if any 2018 QB's drafted can start right away.

 

How far fetched is this idea?????? Or is it even possible?

Above average QB ? 2 SB MVP ‘s yah pretty average , 

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, jmc12290 said:

Eli never got hurt or played so poorly he got benched for a fifth round rookie.

 

So, yes.

 

He apparently played poorly enough that the Giants owner ok'd him being benched for a career backup QB, which is worse IMO.  At least Peterman was "unknown".  Geno is all too well "known".

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, SoTier said:

 

He apparently played poorly enough that the Giants owner ok'd him being benched for a career backup QB, which is worse IMO.  At least Peterman was "unknown".  Geno is all too well "known".

Eli was benched because the Giants don't want to win games.  He's being benched because he's too good.  Complete opposite.

[Putin]

4 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Yes because he is washed up.  I'm all for them bringing in a guy but I hope its Case Keenum...he has really turned into a fine QB...reminds me a lot of the Rich Gannon career path...middling backup turned bad starter until one day the light just goes on and he becomes really good

The jets were thinking the same about Fitzpatrick , 

[SoTier]

40 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

they'll draft a QB. 

 

Oh, I don't doubt that they will.  I just hope it's not for the wrong reason (to please the fans) or worse, trade up to draft a QB for the wrong reason. 

[Kirby Jackson]

1 hour ago, jmc12290 said:

TT goes through OC's like toilet paper.

I like this argument too. His last OC is a HC!! His OC in Baltimore won a super bowl as a HC and tried to sign him. That’s a pretty weak argument.

[SoTier]

26 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Drafting JP and EJ wouldn't have been so bad if the Bills weren't idiots.

 

They drafted them because they (the Bills) WERE idiots.  As I said, it seems like they drafted both just to please the fans, and each choice was egregious in it's own way.  Losman cost them their 2005 first round pick (plus a 2004 2nd and 5th) which they could have used on Aaron Rodgers, who was available at #18.   Manuel was the best QB in probably the worst QB class in a couple of decades.  That was blatantly just drafting a QB in the first round -- any QB -- just to say they did.  If they gotten their heads out of their butts a year earlier, they could have had Russell Wilson or Kirk Cousins but Buddy Nix didn't like QBs who weren't in the preferred physical mold.

[BringBackOrton]

9 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I like this argument too. His last OC is a HC!! His OC in Baltimore won a super bowl as a HC and tried to sign him. That’s a pretty weak argument.

Tyrod never saw live bullets with Kubiak.

 

And good thing he didn't.  Might've cost him that Superbowl.

[SoTier]

30 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

Tannehill shouldn't really count either, if we're being honest.

 

As a successful QB?  Maybe not, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.  My point is that all these folks expecting the Bills to hit the NFL lottery by just because they  draft a QB in the first round are more likely to be disappointed than not.  Maybe the Bills would do better, if there's no suitable QB available in the first round, to consider looking for a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round who has a real excuse for not being a first rounder (like being short like Russell Wilson or being relegated to mostly backup duty because of athletic department politics like Tom Brady).

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, SoTier said:

As a successful QB?  Maybe not, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.  My point is that all these folks expecting the Bills to hit the NFL lottery by just because they  draft a QB in the first round are more likely to be disappointed than not.  Maybe the Bills would do better, if there's no suitable QB available in the first round, to consider looking for a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round who has a real excuse for not being a first rounder (like being short like Russell Wilson or being relegated to mostly backup duty because of athletic department politics like Tom Brady).

Your original post said 'top QBs' which Tanny is not. Agree that one not making sense in the first doesn't mean you don't keep looking on day 2 tho.

[BringBackOrton]

13 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

They drafted them because they (the Bills) WERE idiots.  As I said, it seems like they drafted both just to please the fans, and each choice was egregious in it's own way.  Losman cost them their 2005 first round pick (plus a 2004 2nd and 5th) which they could have used on Aaron Rodgers, who was available at #18.   Manuel was the best QB in probably the worst QB class in a couple of decades.  That was blatantly just drafting a QB in the first round -- any QB -- just to say they did.  If they gotten their heads out of their butts a year earlier, they could have had Russell Wilson or Kirk Cousins but Buddy Nix didn't like QBs who weren't in the preferred physical mold.

EJ wouldn't have been so bad if the Bills tried to get another QB after him.  They let EJ shackle them for 4 years (and counting).  THAT'S the worst thing about the EJ pick.

[SoTier]

27 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

Eli was benched because the Giants don't want to win games.  He's being benched because he's too good.  Complete opposite.

 

Since the Giants have been doing an excellent job of losing games with Eli as their QB, why chance wrecking a good thing by inserting a QB who might get lucky and win an extra game or two? 

 

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, SoTier said:

 

Since the Giants have been doing an excellent job of losing games with Eli as their QB, why chance wrecking a good thing by inserting a QB who might get lucky and win an extra game or two? 

 

What?  

 

Eli was throwing a 2:1 TD:INT ratio.  No chance Geno pulls that off.  They won't win another game with him under center.  Which is exactly what the brass wants.