boyst Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 Yep, it's early but this is an annual thing to begin looking forward to next year by habit. So, with that in mind I am still looking to upgrade the WR position. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/wide-receiver/ And there are some good options in FA this coming up offseason. What I see: X - Benjamin is big enough to line up on the LOS. I like this opportunity but also would like to see him at the slot position in order to put a big body over the middle possibly in conjunction with a TE. Z - Matthews is used here. Slot - Zay Jones When I am designing these plays I don't see speed to get us downfield at the X position if needed. I see YAC potentially, and that's it. Benjamin is fairly elusive for his size, however. I see a good skill set of WR's put in to a hodgepodge of positions in order to fill out a depth chart. My instant upgrade is Matthews to the slot to be used with Zay Jones who one day could play the Z better. I don't know if he can ever be a flanker but I am certain he is never going to be a X. The draft may offer options to upgrade WR but I like whats there at FA. I want to find a speedy and shifty flanker who can run the deep posts and outside hooks. Benjamin will be fine in the middle and does great crossing routes but we do not have outside runners nor deep over the middle threats like I would like to balance out a 3rd and long. If we are going to use Benjamin successfully in this offense I think we can do that best by creating mismatches and opportunities with our personnel looking to stop the run. While Benjamin is still getting used to our team other teams will be getting adjusted to how we use them. I hope we use him sparingly against the Saints in order to save him for division rivals. and we need to use him in motion quite a bit early to see what teams will now do in order to scheme against him. One of the tactics I would save for use against the Chiefs and the 2nd Patriots game is stacking him. If we put him behind Jones or Matthews there is a good chance we can exploit the handoff in coverage and Jones and Matthews speed to pull the top off of the coverage and do outside screens to pick up short yardage. My feeling is that we are going to see him on as many short routes under 6 yards as we will long routes once he is fully up to speed on our system. The long routes are so much easier to practice and build up sync with and Taylor does connect on them. Not like in the years past but hopefully Benjamin will enable him to get back to it. In the long term by the Patriots I am expecting many short out routes toward the middle. Taylor won't be able to find him on the outside due to his [Taylors] short stature but he will be as easy pickup over the middle.. With what we have - the hodgepodge WR corps - I see a lot of reason to be excited in patching together a working unit. It isn't ideal as is. We need to change the way we run this offense because it is built by skillset to be too much like Manning's 2015 offense with the WR unit in Denver. That's not a bad thing but it simply doesn't work for Taylor and our offensive scheme/plan. But, to the topic at hand; next year I really hope we can find an option to displace the work load of Matthews and Jones. I am not the optimist in Jones just yet but I am not dumping on him, either. If we can get a player to fit our system in slot we will be in great shape for a QB. For the record, I am of the crowd that, and based off of my information received, believes Taylor will be our starter in 2018 with a rookie QB on the roster and Peterman still our long term plan as backup. This is why I think Benjamin was brought in as a WR which will address a need with a solid player over the middle for a young QB. A young QB likely already targeted by this team who will utilize him well in 2019. With the plan to use Benjamin over the middle posts and down the field, we need a target across the middle and on the outside and there are going to be plenty of them. I do not know enough about all of these prospects but I will begin looking for a player to fill this role. So, who on this a free agent that will add: 1) speed and versatility to bring a double move style of play to the outside and beat corners deep as our 3rd/4th WR? Zay Jones not panning out so far to believe he's got it. 2) able to run a complex route tree and be our Sammy Watkins/Marquise Goodwin? Upgrading Deonte Thompson isn't a bad idea. 3) any FA that can supplant Benjamin as the X and move him to Z? I would rather have had Jarvis Landry here for the X as he fits that spot and the needs in our system better than Benjamin did. The most interesting part of the WR unit is that it is seemingly being built for an offense we do not run [yet]. I can only hope that is by design and for the future. If that's the case, we need to retool our OL. sources & information to help about the topichttps://www.fieldgulls.com/2012/7/17/3165517/breaking-down-the-x-z-and-slot-receiver -this supposedly has a good linked podcast on WR's. I will listen to it today whilst working. http://www.buffalobills.com/team/depth-chart.html -depth chart http://giantsfans.net/message_board/index.php?topic=9972.0 -giants message board discussing a write up on the position http://www.footballoutsiders.com/walkthrough/2009/walkthrough-camp-adventure -that article mentioned by the giants board. https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2011/11/9/2547750/steelers-passing-offense-antonio-brown-mike-wallace -the myth of a #1 WR through the Steelers eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 How much money do you plan to use at the wide receiver position? I think they may let Matthews go if he demands a large contract, they may bring in some speed but not something that will be too costly. Clay, Shady and now Benjamin are all weapons with large contracts attached too them. With all the holes on this team, they can't afford to bring in someone like Landry with a large contract. Maybe they address it somewhere in the draft but for now, wide receiver is no longer a major need. The offensive line and defense needs to get younger and a running mate/eventual replacement are major needs in this upcoming offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said: How much money do you plan to use at the wide receiver position? I think they may let Matthews go if he demands a large contract, they may bring in some speed but not something that will be too costly. Clay, Shady and now Benjamin are all weapons with large contracts attached too them. With all the holes on this team, they can't afford to bring in someone like Landry with a large contract. Maybe they address it somewhere in the draft but for now, wide receiver is no longer a major need. The offensive line and defense needs to get younger and a running mate/eventual replacement are major needs in this upcoming offseason. ...Matthews may DEMAND, but what is your assessment as far as big money takers?........I'm thinking he would have to rebound big time and play lights out down the stretch before big money is in the offing....then again, stupid money is around.....as a reference point, would you pay him Woods type money?........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 While i appreciate the effort and spirit of this post i think we are set at WR. This team is never going to be pass happy with McD at head coach. McD doesnt strike me as the “sling it 40x a game” kinda coach. Hes more of a run the ball, dont turn the ball over, convert 3rd downs to keep the clock moving, kinda coach. We need to upgrade the talent at the LOS on both sides of the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...Matthews may DEMAND, but what is your assessment as far as big money takers?........I'm thinking he would have to rebound big time and play lights out down the stretch before big money is in the offing....then again, stupid money is around.....as a reference point, would you pay him Woods type money?........... Exactly my point. Teams like the Rams of this year will see a player who is 25 or 26, good size and productive on pass first teams and throw money at them just like the Rams with Woods, Washington with Pryor and so on. Who knows though, just saying it certainly is a possibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 30 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: I'm not as certain that Benjamin was acquired for a future QB. Could be but I think they were just pretty desperate for an upgrade and the cheaper options they hoped would become available did not so they paid the price at the last minute for KB. If he was part of a grander plan I think the deal happens AT LEAST a week earlier. We saw what they were desperate about come to fruition on Thursday.........the Jets know that Taylor doesn't have a game breaker like Watkins outside anymore and don't believe Taylor trusts his outside options nor did they fear them or getting burnt for YAC yards on quick hitters if they blitzed. Perhaps they feel Tyrod will trust the big target KB and get the ball out sooner. You could certainly argue that Tyrod has a lot to gain with KB if it plays out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 I just think we have bigger needs now. An aging offensive line that isn't all that great and an aging slow front seven that can't rush the passer on defense are number one needs IMO. If we don't upgrade them, we will see a lot of games like the Jets game next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 6 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...Matthews may DEMAND, but what is your assessment as far as big money takers?........I'm thinking he would have to rebound big time and play lights out down the stretch before big money is in the offing....then again, stupid money is around.....as a reference point, would you pay him Woods type money?........... The Bills may not want to pay him Woods or Better money. But another team of the 31 out there will. He is a very productive WR and some team will give him 7-9 a year and put him in the slot and let him flurish again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmalibu Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 Start with the WRs under contract, and work form there. Benjamin, Jones, and Holmes. Not a bad start, need to add a speed guy like Thompson and a draft pick for depth/development. I dont think they need to spend a bunch of money on WRs, Id rather see the money spent on O line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 11 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said: Exactly my point. Teams like the Rams of this year will see a player who is 25 or 26, good size and productive on pass first teams and throw money at them just like the Rams with Woods, Washington with Pryor and so on. Who knows though, just saying it certainly is a possibility ....hard to figure out stupid money, but we know it is out there.........injury so far has limited any valued assessment of him & TT together, but would you pay him Woods type money?..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 5, 2017 Author Share Posted November 5, 2017 34 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said: How much money do you plan to use at the wide receiver position? I think they may let Matthews go if he demands a large contract, they may bring in some speed but not something that will be too costly. Clay, Shady and now Benjamin are all weapons with large contracts attached too them. With all the holes on this team, they can't afford to bring in someone like Landry with a large contract. Maybe they address it somewhere in the draft but for now, wide receiver is no longer a major need. The offensive line and defense needs to get younger and a running mate/eventual replacement are major needs in this upcoming offseason. it's not about money. if we do lose jordan matthews - likely because he will want $3-4mm or more with what he may finish the season with combined with what he got in Phili (though, that could be a big push for as much as $7mm) - than we can readdress it like we did acquiring him. We lost Woods who was in the same role last year and are doing just fine with Matthews. By signing low level free agents or those who are looking to prove something we can do fairly well. Donte Moncrief will be cheap, for example. Is fairly big at 6'2 and 221 while running 4.4. He is similar in size and speed to Matthews and could likely do just as much in this type of offense fairly cheaper. bringing in landry was never going to happen as a FA after we got benjamin and looking at what benjamin does vs landry i can understand and fully believe the team wanted to trade for him badly. he is a much better fit. As I will touch on below - we can address the OL in the draft. OL is too expensive in FA and seldom pans out in recent history for many teams. 23 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: I'm not as certain that Benjamin was acquired for a future QB. Could be but I think they were just pretty desperate for an upgrade and the cheaper options they hoped would become available did not so they paid the price at the last minute for KB. If he was part of a grander plan I think the deal happens AT LEAST a week earlier. We saw what they were desperate about come to fruition on Thursday.........the Jets know that Taylor doesn't have a game breaker like Watkins outside anymore and don't believe Taylor trusts his outside options nor did they fear them or getting burnt for YAC yards on quick hitters if they blitzed. Perhaps they feel Tyrod will trust the big target KB and get the ball out sooner. You could certainly argue that Tyrod has a lot to gain with KB if it plays out. i'm back and forth on this but i see them investing as much for the future as the now with benjamin with the flexibility to let both walk after 2018. 26 minutes ago, bobobonators said: While i appreciate the effort and spirit of this post i think we are set at WR. This team is never going to be pass happy with McD at head coach. McD doesnt strike me as the “sling it 40x a game” kinda coach. Hes more of a run the ball, dont turn the ball over, convert 3rd downs to keep the clock moving, kinda coach. We need to upgrade the talent at the LOS on both sides of the ball. upgrade through the draft. scouting OL is very difficult and we seem hellbent on shaking up the position to go all over the place scheme wise. Good OL are also very expensive. So much so they're better to draft and can start when drafted in the first 2 and sometimes 3 rounds. more than a wr might. and this years draft looks terrible from what I hear (haven't paid attention or watched college ball) at OL so going with two OL in the first would be fine by me. by investing in a donte moncrief or jordan matthews if we can afford him or players on the B-list level at best paired with a guy like Benjamin we are still going to fair better because i can hope we match the needs of the 5 WR's we have the skills needed in this offense. blocking wr, running deep, running over the middle and out routes to get to the boundary when running fails and we need to march the field and can't do it all between the hashes. we have a lot of opportunity to build our WR's on a skillset of need fairly cheap in 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 Nice topic. Well written and makes a lot of sense. I’m in the boat that we won’t be allocating many resources to WR this offseason. Goneith KB and Zay and other guys like Thompson that can run and play ST. I could see them putting resources towards TE. Clay can’t be counted on to stay healthy and O’Leary is a backup at best imo. They could really help the passing and running game by adding a top flight TE that can run and block efficiently I agree that the OL should be addressed in the draft. At least one OL drafted in the first 3 rds, maybe 2. Richie and wood are on the back end of their careers and RG is a debacle. I could see them drafting a guard and center high. We have groy, but he’s only under contract through the end of next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....hard to figure out stupid money, but we know it is out there.........injury so far has limited any valued assessment of him & TT together, but would you pay him Woods type money?..... I think based on what he showed in Philly, his size and his ability to play the slot very well, some team easily will pay him 7-8 million a year if they value the wide receiver position enough. We don't as we are a run first team, but imagine a team like Atlanta, New England, Green Bay...teams who throw the ball a ton will definitely pay that for him no doubt in my mind. He was a productive receiver with not that great of QB play in Philly. Imagine what he would do with a Rodgers or a Stafford or a Brady? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 5, 2017 Share Posted November 5, 2017 We need a speed guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 I could see us drafting a WR with speed after round 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderingsquid Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Found your guy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 The Bills could use a slot/return WR if we elect to let Matthews, Tate and/or Thompson go in free agency. Ideally we could get one guy to fit both roles that can draft in the middle rounds (see Round 4 or 5). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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