Victory Formation Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 11 hours ago, Buffalo30 said: How did you not see translatable traits in today's game? His first touchdown was a bullet over the middle on a deep slant. His second touchdown, he threw a very accurate pass while on the run after avoiding pass rushers. His third touchdown, he threw a perfect deep ball to a wide receiver in stride. How were those throws not translatable? We don't have a guy that can do that now. His deep middle slant throw was a big time NFL throw. None of the other QBs in this draft class could make that pass with that type of zip. His potential is so high. He needs time to be groomed behind a vet. I hope we will be patient as a franchise if we get him. He has taken snaps from under center. His coach is the same coach that was with Carson Wentz and he has talked about both being in the same light. He didn't throw that many passes today and still had some outstanding passes. If he gets coached well, someone will get him playing at that high level on a more consistent basis and I hope it is us. He had more talent around him last year and everyone who scouts him and talks about him knows that. He is playing with garbage players. Don't look at the numbers, look at the potential in his ability. You could be right. I am really curious what Allen scores on the wonderlic, it would kind of give us an idea on whether or not he is just a towering QB with a big arm or a guy with a great understanding of the game. That's not something fans know by watching a few games or highlight videos, the tools are there but once again, what's his football IQ? This is where McBeane and McD try to get a good feel for him on the mental aspect of the game and if he does check out, no way he lasts to our pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 33 minutes ago, NewDayBills said: You could be right. I am really curious what Allen scores on the wonderlic, it would kind of give us an idea on whether or not he is just a towering QB with a big arm or a guy with a great understanding of the game. That's not something fans know by watching a few games or highlight videos, the tools are there but once again, what's his football IQ? This is where McBeane and McD try to get a good feel for him on the mental aspect of the game and if he does check out, no way he lasts to our pick. I can't wait for the combine/interview process for these guys. The wonderlic is definitely something that should be looked at for a guy like Allen who wasn't a top prospect coming out of high school. He shows great competitive spirit but that's something that can really help or hurt him. We should be looking for a guy with a high wonderlic score, no doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 12 hours ago, Buffalo30 said: How did you not see translatable traits in today's game? His first touchdown was a bullet over the middle on a deep slant. His second touchdown, he threw a very accurate pass while on the run after avoiding pass rushers. His third touchdown, he threw a perfect deep ball to a wide receiver in stride. How were those throws not translatable? We don't have a guy that can do that now. His deep middle slant throw was a big time NFL throw. None of the other QBs in this draft class could make that pass with that type of zip. His potential is so high. He needs time to be groomed behind a vet. I hope we will be patient as a franchise if we get him. He has taken snaps from under center. His coach is the same coach that was with Carson Wentz and he has talked about both being in the same light. He didn't throw that many passes today and still had some outstanding passes. If he gets coached well, someone will get him playing at that high level on a more consistent basis and I hope it is us. He had more talent around him last year and everyone who scouts him and talks about him knows that. He is playing with garbage players. Don't look at the numbers, look at the potential in his ability. I haven't really seen him play much. Not convinced Dennison is the guy to groom a qb, but I was pretty impressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 8 minutes ago, Dr. Who said: I haven't really seen him play much. Not convinced Dennison is the guy to groom a qb, but I was pretty impressed. Oh Dennison would not be the guy that'd I'd have groom him haha but I like the kid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 19 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said: I can't wait for the combine/interview process for these guys. The wonderlic is definitely something that should be looked at for a guy like Allen who wasn't a top prospect coming out of high school. He shows great competitive spirit but that's something that can really help or hurt him. We should be looking for a guy with a high wonderlic score, no doubt. That's going to determine whether or not he is a 1st round pick or a 2nd. Physically he is on par with Big Ben but once again, his stats do suck really bad but if he blows coaches away in interviews with a high understanding of the game, he will be drafted very high. It's the difference between him being Big Ben or Paxton Lynch. Only the FO will know, the talent is there, no doubt but at this point it's about what's 6 inches between his ears. If checks out mentally, the pick is much less risky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 ...wish I had the opportunity to watch college ball.....so here's the hypothetical......Darnold declares........OBD preserves draft capital and Darnold, Rosen & Mayfield are gone...Buffalo is on the board and both Allen and Rudolph are available...who is the pick and why?...thanks for the help buds.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 2 hours ago, NewDayBills said: That's going to determine whether or not he is a 1st round pick or a 2nd. Physically he is on par with Big Ben but once again, his stats do suck really bad but if he blows coaches away in interviews with a high understanding of the game, he will be drafted very high. It's the difference between him being Big Ben or Paxton Lynch. Only the FO will know, the talent is there, no doubt but at this point it's about what's 6 inches between his ears. If checks out mentally, the pick is much less risky. There's no chance he will make it out of the first round. With all of the QB needy teams, he could sit behind Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Eli Manning, Carson Palmer...too many teams have situations that they could use a QB. With his potential being that high...there's just zero chance he's not a first round pick. 30 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...wish I had the opportunity to watch college ball.....so here's the hypothetical......Darnold declares........OBD preserves draft capital and Darnold, Rosen & Mayfield are gone...Buffalo is on the board and both Allen and Rudolph are available...who is the pick and why?...thanks for the help buds.... Allen right now. He has the highest ceiling of anyone in the draft. He needs to sit behind a veteran though. Rudolph has a better chance of playing in year one but I think he'd still be horrible right off the bat as well. Allen at times looks like Aaron Rodgers out of the pocket in terms of arm strength and the ability to throw on the run. Yes I understand the comparison I just made but if he plays consistently at what his peak is...that's Aaron Rodgers. Don't believe me, watch some of the highlights of his best plays. They will wow you. Rudolph just doesn't wow me even on his best plays. Obviously just my opinion of the guys. However, Allen is rated higher than Rudolph and Mayfield on the majority of boards. A franchise would need to be patient with him...don't know if Buffalo fans can handle that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 7 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said: There's no chance he will make it out of the first round. With all of the QB needy teams, he could sit behind Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Eli Manning, Carson Palmer...too many teams have situations that they could use a QB. With his potential being that high...there's just zero chance he's not a first round pick. Allen right now. He has the highest ceiling of anyone in the draft. He needs to sit behind a veteran though. Rudolph has a better chance of playing in year one but I think he'd still be horrible right off the bat as well. Allen at times looks like Aaron Rodgers out of the pocket in terms of arm strength and the ability to throw on the run. Yes I understand the comparison I just made but if he plays consistently at what his peak is...that's Aaron Rodgers. Don't believe me, watch some of the highlights of his best plays. They will wow you. Rudolph just doesn't wow me even on his best plays. Obviously just my opinion of the guys. However, Allen is rated higher than Rudolph and Mayfield on the majority of boards. A franchise would need to be patient with him...don't know if Buffalo fans can handle that. ...thanks bud...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 30 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said: There's no chance he will make it out of the first round. With all of the QB needy teams, he could sit behind Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Eli Manning, Carson Palmer...too many teams have situations that they could use a QB. With his potential being that high...there's just zero chance he's not a first round pick. Allen right now. He has the highest ceiling of anyone in the draft. He needs to sit behind a veteran though. Rudolph has a better chance of playing in year one but I think he'd still be horrible right off the bat as well. Allen at times looks like Aaron Rodgers out of the pocket in terms of arm strength and the ability to throw on the run. Yes I understand the comparison I just made but if he plays consistently at what his peak is...that's Aaron Rodgers. Don't believe me, watch some of the highlights of his best plays. They will wow you. Rudolph just doesn't wow me even on his best plays. Obviously just my opinion of the guys. However, Allen is rated higher than Rudolph and Mayfield on the majority of boards. A franchise would need to be patient with him...don't know if Buffalo fans can handle that. Do you remember JaMarcus Russell? He could throw a ball 70 yards on his knees, he had great 'potential' too. Once again, I want to see how he does at the combine, the wonderlic and during interviews. His physical abilities mean nothing if he is a dum dum. Let the facts come out before you compare him to Rodgers. 1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...wish I had the opportunity to watch college ball.....so here's the hypothetical......Darnold declares........OBD preserves draft capital and Darnold, Rosen & Mayfield are gone...Buffalo is on the board and both Allen and Rudolph are available...who is the pick and why?...thanks for the help buds.... I like Rudolph, most people are going crazy over Mayfield and Allen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, NewDayBills said: Do you remember JaMarcus Russell? He could throw a ball 70 yards on his knees, he had great 'potential' too. Once again, I want to see how he does at the combine, the wonderlic and during interviews. His physical abilities mean nothing if he is a dum dum. Let the facts come out before you compare him to Rodgers. ...Dude I started with Allen right now. I clearly said right now. Not after the combine and testing and all of that. I said right now. And I didn't compare every trait to Rodgers. Please don't put words into my mouth. I said that he looks to have a similar arm strength and ability to throw on the run as Rodgers. If you watch a lot of his games and watch his zip, the comparison isn't a hyperbole. His best throws/plays show that. Never said he's the next Rodgers. And yes I remember Russell. However, I think it's lazy to say any QB with a big arm and a few question marks will turn out to be him. Again, I said right now knowing what we know, I'd take Allen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said: ...Dude I started with Allen right now. I clearly said right now. Not after the combine and testing and all of that. I said right now. And I didn't compare every trait to Rodgers. Please don't put words into my mouth. I said that he looks to have a similar arm strength and ability to throw on the run as Rodgers. If you watch a lot of his games and watch his zip, the comparison isn't a hyperbole. His best throws/plays show that. Never said he's the next Rodgers. And yes I remember Russell. However, I think it's lazy to say any QB with a big arm and a few question marks will turn out to be him. Again, I said right now knowing what we know, I'd take Allen. You mentioned Rodgers, I mentioned Russell, it's just a gentle reminder that this kid is 50/50. The stats are not there, there is not much to go off of. QB is more of a mental battle than a physical one so let's let the process play out. His turnovers are a huge concern but by all means if McD interviews the kid and feels like he is smart and can use his brain to make good decisions and put that ball where it needs to be, draft him. I'm just pumping the brakes on this, I'm not the kind of guy who likes to rush into things, especially a prospect with big question marks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, NewDayBills said: You mentioned Rodgers, I mentioned Russell, it's just a gentle reminder that this kid is 50/50. The stats are not there, there is not much to go off of. QB is more of a mental battle than a physical one so let's let the process play out. His turnovers are a huge concern but by all means if McD interviews the kid and feels like he is smart and can use his brain to make good decisions and put that ball where it needs to be, draft him. I'm just pumping the brakes on this, I'm not the kind of guy who likes to rush into things, especially a prospect with big question marks. Rudolph has just as many questions in my opinion due to the system he plays in at Oklahoma State. Again, you can't just look at the stats. I can't understate this enough. No matter if it's Allen, Rudolph or any of the other guys. Stats are not the reason Rosen is considered the top guy. He throws timing passes and reads defenses better than any of the other QBs in this class. You learn that by watching him play not by stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 8 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said: Rudolph has just as many questions in my opinion due to the system he plays in at Oklahoma State. Again, you can't just look at the stats. I can't understate this enough. No matter if it's Allen, Rudolph or any of the other guys. Stats are not the reason Rosen is considered the top guy. He throws timing passes and reads defenses better than any of the other QBs in this class. You learn that by watching him play not by stats. Rudolph took care of the ball more and he did thread the needle more often, he may not have as good a deepball as Allen but Rudolph is a much more accurate passer, that's a fact. Short and intermediate throws, Rudolph wins in spades. Turnovers and accuracy is a huge issue with Allen. What was it? 20+ turnovers the last 2 years with Allen? No thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, NewDayBills said: Rudolph took care of the ball more and he did thread the needle more often, he may not have as good a deepball as Allen but Rudolph is a much more accurate passer, that's a fact. Short and intermediate throws, Rudolph wins in spades. Turnovers and accuracy is a huge issue with Allen. What was it? 20+ turnovers the last 2 years with Allen? No thanks. Again haha stats aren't everything. You will not change my opinion by posting another stat. I've watched both play several times every year of their careers. I have my opinions about both based on what I see on the field not in the box score. Rudolph fell short being accurate on all throws against TCU and Oklahoma this year. Looked horrible against Texas as well. He was missing on easy 5 yard crossing pattern throws. His footwork is below average at best. As of right now, I am not very high on him. That certainly can change moving forward but right now, he doesn't do anything for me. He looks like the benefiary of a spread system and talented wide receivers. I hate bringing up what experts say but they feel the same way about Rudolph. Doesn't mean he can't improve but he's not someone that I can stand here and say will certainly be successful in the NFL and neither is Allen. That's why I go for the potential. These guys are second tier guys. With second tier guys, I tend to go for the potential. First tier guys like Rosen and Darnold, that's a completely different conversation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Just now, Buffalo30 said: Again haha stats aren't everything. You will not change my opinion by posting another stat. I've watched both play several times every year of their careers. I have my opinions about both based on what I see on the field not in the box score. Rudolph fell short being accurate on all throws against TCU and Oklahoma this year. Looked horrible against Texas as well. He was missing on easy 5 yard crossing pattern throws. His footwork is below average at best. As of right now, I am not very high on him. That certainly can change moving forward but right now, he doesn't do anything for me. He looks like the benefiary of a spread system and talented wide receivers. I hate bringing up what experts say but they feel the same way about Rudolph. Doesn't mean he can't improve but he's not someone that I can stand here and say will certainly be successful in the NFL and neither is Allen. That's why I go for the potential. These guys are second tier guys. With second tier guys, I tend to go for the potential. First tier guys like Rosen and Darnold, that's a completely different conversation. Oh, OK. Rudolph was inaccurate in a few games burn him at the stake. Allen gets a pass though for having a CAREER 56% average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 2 minutes ago, NewDayBills said: Oh, OK. Rudolph was inaccurate in a few games burn him at the stake. Allen gets a pass though for having a CAREER 56% average. I will end the conversation here because you keep bringing up stats and disregarding any other factors that go into an incomplete pass. Players drop passes, players run the wrong routes, Allen ran for his life in a lot of the games this year and had to throw under immense pressure or throw it away. Those add up. The lack of talent around him has deflated his numbers. Watch more of his games and you will see that. I like the fact that his coach is the same one that coached with Carson Wentz. He's seen both play and compares the two. I take his opinion as he has had first hand experience coaching both. I think Allen will be a better pro if given time and coached properly. We will find out a lot more over the next few months. Can't wait, I'm excited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Rudolph certainly had the advantage of a better recieving corps. Allen looked more like Wentz and less like EJ yesterday, but I still have a hard time un-seeing some of the throws I saw earlier. I’ll trust our scouts because....what other choice do I have? Fingers crossed for the best! (Whatever that may be.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 18 hours ago, Buffalo30 said: How did you not see translatable traits in today's game? His first touchdown was a bullet over the middle on a deep slant. His second touchdown, he threw a very accurate pass while on the run after avoiding pass rushers. His third touchdown, he threw a perfect deep ball to a wide receiver in stride. How were those throws not translatable? We don't have a guy that can do that now. His deep middle slant throw was a big time NFL throw. None of the other QBs in this draft class could make that pass with that type of zip. His potential is so high. He needs time to be groomed behind a vet. I hope we will be patient as a franchise if we get him. He has taken snaps from under center. His coach is the same coach that was with Carson Wentz and he has talked about both being in the same light. He didn't throw that many passes today and still had some outstanding passes. If he gets coached well, someone will get him playing at that high level on a more consistent basis and I hope it is us. He had more talent around him last year and everyone who scouts him and talks about him knows that. He is playing with garbage players. Don't look at the numbers, look at the potential in his ability. I guarantee Lamar Jackson could've made that throw. He has a "gun" too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 37 minutes ago, the skycap said: I guarantee Lamar Jackson could've made that throw. He has a "gun" too. Opinions on Jackson appear to be all over the map. His arm is plenty strong. I think he might be a "smart" Mike Vick. Some folks are dead set against a running qb, though. Anyway, not my first choice, but I would definitely consider him. I think he will be there without trading up, but he'll be a first rounder imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted December 24, 2017 Share Posted December 24, 2017 2 hours ago, the skycap said: I guarantee Lamar Jackson could've made that throw. He has a "gun" too. That's debatable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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