Andy Benoit on Bills and draft

[eball]

Agree entirely here. It was his best game as a pro. His command was really evident as he checked in and out of plays; he had defenders moving all game long.

 

I thought the Seattle game may have been his "ah-ha" moment, but that wasn't the case. I'm hoping the Miami game was, too, but I need to be convinced like everybody else. If not, our only hope is to get leads and keep him from having to win games with his arm.

 

Still, that's a terrible indictment of a QB's ability to say he can't throw with anticipation. It's perhaps the most critical aspect of the position from a passing standpoint. Especially in this league where the athletes are all superior and the margins are narrow to begin with.

 

Did he really say "can't?" Seems the appropriate word would be "hasn't" or "doesn't." Nitpicky, I know, but it's not like this is a physical trait like arm strength.

[K-9]

 

Did he really say "can't?" Seems the appropriate word would be "hasn't" or "doesn't." Nitpicky, I know, but it's not like this is a physical trait like arm strength.

He said "he's not an anticipation passer." That sounds a lot like can't to me.

[NoSaint]

 

Did he really say "can't?" Seems the appropriate word would be "hasn't" or "doesn't." Nitpicky, I know, but it's not like this is a physical trait like arm strength.

its not like its physically impossible for him, but its something he has not executed with any sense of consistency and will need to (and is hard to pickup as an established vet)

[transplantbillsfan]

 

"Not an anticipation quarterback" is one hell of an indictment. Nothing more to say, actually. Doesn't matter what kind of receiver you draft or where you draft him. A QB that can't throw with anticipation is too easy to defend and is a liability. Simple as that.

 

 

Well... there'd be nothing more to say if it were a fact. It's not. It's Benoit's opinion.

 

And yes, he watches a lot more football than any of us, so it's a pretty educated opinion. But while Benoit has been pretty consistently negative in his view on Taylor, Cian Fahey, another guy who watches every single snap of every single NFL QB, thinks Taylor is really good. And his is another educated opinion that runs quite counter to Benoit's...

 

So sure, Benoit's opinion is worth considering, but settle an argument it does not...

[transplantbillsfan]

Agree entirely here. It was his best game as a pro. His command was really evident as he checked in and out of plays; he had defenders moving all game long.

 

I thought the Seattle game may have been his "ah-ha" moment, but that wasn't the case. I'm hoping the Miami game was, too, but I need to be convinced like everybody else. If not, our only hope is to get leads and keep him from having to win games with his arm.

 

Still, that's a terrible indictment of a QB's ability to say he can't throw with anticipation. It's perhaps the most critical aspect of the position from a passing standpoint. Especially in this league where the athletes are all superior and the margins are narrow to begin with.

 

Did Benoit say Taylor can't throw with anticipation?

 

Did he really say "can't?" Seems the appropriate word would be "hasn't" or "doesn't." Nitpicky, I know, but it's not like this is a physical trait like arm strength.

 

Beat me to it...

He said "he's not an anticipation passer." That sounds a lot like can't to me.

 

I'm not a runner. It doesn't mean I can't do it.

[Beef Jerky]

So many draft threads not sure where to put this, but I tend to value Benoit's opinion on where the Bills should go in the draft more than some of the "draft" guys as he studies film of every team, every game, every week.

@andy_benoit

With Tyrod Taylor not being an anticipation passer, #Bills cant run complex route combinations. Theyll have to draft for talent at WR.

#Bills need at least two WRs to join Sammy Watkins. Any style of receiver can do.

Foundation of #Bills offense will remain the run game. Would be wise for them to find a No. 2 TE, allow Clay to be more movable chess piece.

LeSean McCoy turns 29 in July. Still have to consider him in his prime.

That is basically what I have been saying, Tyrod is good enough to where you can win as long as he has good pass catchers around him.

[jeffismagic]

 

Well... there'd be nothing more to say if it were a fact. It's not. It's Benoit's opinion.

 

And yes, he watches a lot more football than any of us, so it's a pretty educated opinion. But while Benoit has been pretty consistently negative in his view on Taylor, Cian Fahey, another guy who watches every single snap of every single NFL QB, thinks Taylor is really good. And his is another educated opinion that runs quite counter to Benoit's...

 

So sure, Benoit's opinion is worth considering, but settle an argument it does not...

 

Andy Benoit > Cian Fahey

 

 

Fahey thought Vernon Adams was better than Carson Wentz as a QB prospect last year. Time for him to go back to analytics.

Edited April 24, 2017 by jeffismagic

[transplantbillsfan]

 

Andy Benoit > Cian Fahey

 

 

Fahey thought Vernon Adams was better than Carson Wentz as a QB prospect last year. Time for him to go back to analytics.

 

We've been through this.

 

You can find prospects and players that absolutely every single "expert" or "guru" has completely whiffed on, including Benoit.

 

So if you like Benoit more than Fahey, that's fine and you're entitled to your own opinion. But arguing it based on a whiff is pretty short-sighted.

 

 

Plus, Fahey's area of "expertise" really isn't college. Benoit seems to do more with college, but both guys are ultimately NFL guys, so it would probably at least lend more credence to the argument that one guy is greater than the other if you look at their analysis of their fields of expertise: the NFL.

[jeffismagic]

 

We've been through this.

 

You can find prospects and players that absolutely every single "expert" or "guru" has completely whiffed on, including Benoit.

 

So if you like Benoit more than Fahey, that's fine and you're entitled to your own opinion. But arguing it based on a whiff is pretty short-sighted.

 

 

Plus, Fahey's area of "expertise" really isn't college. Benoit seems to do more with college, but both guys are ultimately NFL guys, so it would probably at least lend more credence to the argument that one guy is greater than the other if you look at their analysis of their fields of expertise: the NFL.

 

I never learn anything from reading Fahey. That's why I don't get why people quote him so much.

[K-9]

 

Did Benoit say Taylor can't throw with anticipation?

 

Beat me to it...

 

I'm not a runner. It doesn't mean I can't do it.

Look, I'm not a Taylor hater and I hope he can make everyone a believer. But he leaves a lot to be desired as a passer based on performance to date. I don't care about Benoit's or anyone else's opinion as I'm perfectly capable of forming my own. And I believe it's helluva lot more informed than Benoit's, anyway.

 

Your last sentence makes absolutely no sense in this context by the way. I'm glad you can run. Are you ready to carry the rock 20 times in an NFL game?

 

Believe what you want, but ANY quarterback who can't throw with anticipation in this league won't be successful in it. It really is as simple as that. The sad fact is that TT hasn't shown any consistent ability to do that to date. If you don't agree with that, I have to wonder what you've been watching.

[HappyDays]

 

Andy Benoit > Cian Fahey

 

 

Fahey thought Vernon Adams was better than Carson Wentz as a QB prospect last year. Time for him to go back to analytics.

Maybe in 3 years we're all saying Fahey was a genius. It's pretty early to say he was right or wrong. Wentz looked awful after Week 4, no two ways around it. I recognize that Adams is currently in the CFL but to be honest I have a very low opinion of the collective decision making of NFL executives. So to me saying "this player hasn't gotten a look by an NFL team so he must suck" is not right.

 

Anyways, not gonna get into a lengthy defense of Adams because I don't know the first thing about him. Just saying it's a weird criticism. If you want a better one here's Fahey saying Dak Prescott was a wasted pick last year:

 

http://presnapreads.com/2016/05/02/developmental-quarterbacks-the-nfl-drafts-pyramid-scheme/

 

QB evaluators are wrong all the time so it's weird to say Benoit is better than Fahey. What's that based on? I don't have a comparison of their records, maybe you do.

[jeffismagic]

Maybe in 3 years we're all saying Fahey was a genius. It's pretty early to say he was right or wrong. Wentz looked awful after Week 4, no two ways around it. I recognize that Adams is currently in the CFL but to be honest I have a very low opinion of the collective decision making of NFL executives. So to me saying "this player hasn't gotten a look by an NFL team so he must suck" is not right.

 

Anyways, not gonna get into a lengthy defense of Adams because I don't know the first thing about him. Just saying it's a weird criticism. If you want a better one here's Fahey saying Dak Prescott was a wasted pick last year:

 

http://presnapreads.com/2016/05/02/developmental-quarterbacks-the-nfl-drafts-pyramid-scheme/

 

QB evaluators are wrong all the time so it's weird to say Benoit is better than Fahey. What's that based on? I don't have a comparison of their records, maybe you do.

 

Getting Dak wrong is not as bad as declaring Vernon Adams the top QB prospect in the 2016 draft.

[transplantbillsfan]

 

I never learn anything from reading Fahey. That's why I don't get why people quote him so much.

 

You never learn anything from him? Have you read his "film room" analyses? I'm not asking that rhetorically, I'm genuinely curious. What he writes occasionally misses the mark, but so does the work of just about any writer out there.

 

Can you give me an example of an expert who consistently writes things you "learn" from and provide one of his articles?

[transplantbillsfan]

 

Getting Dak wrong is not as bad as declaring Vernon Adams the top QB prospect in the 2016 draft.

 

It's not like it was an overwhelmingly strong QB class, anyway.

 

The best QB in the class surprised absolutely everyone. The guy drafted #1 overall is on the path to being a bust already. And Wentz started hot and fizzled away the rest of the year.

 

You're talking about a guy as a miss who is really a never was. It's the equivalent of everyone complaining that the Bills didn't trade up to get Dak and how Whaley was wrong to be likely enamored with Jones over Dak.

 

Have we really seen Jones play, yet?

 

For that matter, have we seen Dak sustain his level of play, yet?

 

 

Pump the brakes with the overreactions and try to find some even ground you can sit on. We need a few years before we can really say anything about these guys. And as much as some will want to jump back to EJ and shout from a mountaintop that "I knew he was a bust from DAY1!!!" I bet many of those are the same guys who were saying "Kirk Cousins is the worst NFL QB!!!" for his first few years in the league.

[Estro]

 

Andy Benoit > Cian Fahey

 

 

Fahey thought Vernon Adams was better than Carson Wentz as a QB prospect last year. Time for him to go back to analytics.

Yea Cian Fahey has gotten way too much hype as some type of player analyst. Don't get me wrong, he's a good follow and he has strong takes. That said I take his opinions as seriously as I do mine or my buddies when it comes to the NFL.

 

His defense of Tyrod being some type of good QB is comical. He's dug in so far with Tyrod, that I believe it's more important to him to defend Tyrod and throw shade at anybody who questions his analysis than to admit he was wrong and that Tyrod isn't very good.

 

I'll take what my eyeballs show me.....and also what Andy Benoit and Greg Cosell think about Tyrod (that he's not good) over what some guy in Ireland who's based his opinion on Tyrod's 2 or 3 best games........and not the 15 so-so/stinkers he's had.

 

I love Schopp, but he relies on Cian' QB analysis way too hard. It's what got Schoop excited about Mitch Tribusky. Cian really likes Mitch and doesn't like Patrick Mahomes. I on the other hand think Tribusky is bad and is going to be really bad in the NFL.

[transplantbillsfan]

Yea Cian Fahey has gotten way too much hype as some type of player analyst. Don't get me wrong, he's a good follow and he has strong takes. That said I take his opinions as seriously as I do mine or my buddies when it comes to the NFL.

 

His defense of Tyrod being some type of good QB is comical. He's dug in so far with Tyrod, that I believe it's more important to him to defend Tyrod and throw shade at anybody who questions his analysis than to admit he was wrong and that Tyrod isn't very good.

 

I'll take what my eyeballs show me.....and also what Andy Benoit and Greg Cosell think about Tyrod (that he's not good) over what some guy in Ireland who's based his opinion on Tyrod's 2 or 3 best games........and not the 15 so-so/stinkers he's had.

 

I love Schopp, but he relies on Cian' QB analysis way too hard. It's what got Schoop excited about Mitch Tribusky. Cian really likes Mitch and doesn't like Patrick Mahomes. I on the other hand think Tribusky is bad and is going to be really bad in the NFL.

Translation: Fahey's a hack because he likes Taylor and I don't. And because I can cite 2 other QB guys, my opinion is validated. And because he likes Tribusky and I don't.

 

 

And what the hell does him being in Ireland have to do with anything in this day and age?

Edited April 25, 2017 by transplantbillsfan

[transplantbillsfan]

I'll take what my eyeballs show me.....and also what Andy Benoit and Greg Cosell think about Tyrod (that he's not good) over what some guy in Ireland who's based his opinion on Tyrod's 2 or 3 best games........and not the 15 so-so/stinkers he's had.

Way to totally make something up... you may disagree with his opinion, but it's too bad you have to lie to try to further invalidate his work...

[PolishDave]

Comparing Tyrod to a pure pocket passer is a waste of time in my opinion. He's not a pure pocket passer.

 

His strength is making plays "unexpectedly" with his legs and also making plays "unexpectedly" with his deep ball because he was able to extend a broken play long enough for a receiver to break away.

 

He's not a Tom Brady, Matt Ryan style qb. Never has been. Never will be. He is very good at what his strengths are and his strengths are entirely different than those pocket passers.

 

It's like people here are waiting for him to turn into a pure pocket passer. Silly. Not gonna happen.

 

The guy is, however, an athlete with elite level football talent (not elite qb talent) who also has a great arm. If he has a system designed for his strengths and is given enough practice time to master the execution of those plays, the guy will be an incredibly "hard to beat" quarterback. I say that because his level of athleticism and level of improvisation is off the charts positive when it comes to football players.

 

Remember, right now in every game plan a team makes against the Bills - those teams are worried about 3 main offensive threats from the Bills - Shady, Sammy and yes - Tyrod

 

When you replace Tyrod you want to have a QB to replace him with who is good enough to force teams to consider him as a primary threat - so much so that they are afraid they are going to get beat by him embarrassingly if they don't defend him right. If opposing teams don't have to consider your QB as a primary threat in their game plans, then every defense you play against is a notch or two better than it otherwise would be.

[jeffismagic]

Yea Cian Fahey has gotten way too much hype as some type of player analyst. Don't get me wrong, he's a good follow and he has strong takes. That said I take his opinions as seriously as I do mine or my buddies when it comes to the NFL.

 

His defense of Tyrod being some type of good QB is comical. He's dug in so far with Tyrod, that I believe it's more important to him to defend Tyrod and throw shade at anybody who questions his analysis than to admit he was wrong and that Tyrod isn't very good.

 

I'll take what my eyeballs show me.....and also what Andy Benoit and Greg Cosell think about Tyrod (that he's not good) over what some guy in Ireland who's based his opinion on Tyrod's 2 or 3 best games........and not the 15 so-so/stinkers he's had.

 

I love Schopp, but he relies on Cian' QB analysis way too hard. It's what got Schoop excited about Mitch Tribusky. Cian really likes Mitch and doesn't like Patrick Mahomes. I on the other hand think Tribusky is bad and is going to be really bad in the NFL.

Exactly. I can call people in my network that know more than Fahey. But good for him, he has learned how to get clicks.

Edited April 25, 2017 by jeffismagic

[K-9]

Comparing Tyrod to a pure pocket passer is a waste of time in my opinion. He's not a pure pocket passer.

 

His strength is making plays "unexpectedly" with his legs and also making plays "unexpectedly" with his deep ball because he was able to extend a broken play long enough for a receiver to break away.

 

He's not a Tom Brady, Matt Ryan style qb. Never has been. Never will be. He is very good at what his strengths are and his strengths are entirely different than those pocket passers.

 

It's like people here are waiting for him to turn into a pure pocket passer. Silly. Not gonna happen.

 

The guy is, however, an athlete with elite level football talent (not elite qb talent) who also has a great arm. If he has a system designed for his strengths and is given enough practice time to master the execution of those plays, the guy will be an incredibly "hard to beat" quarterback. I say that because his level of athleticism and level of improvisation is off the charts positive when it comes to football players.

 

Remember, right now in every game plan a team makes against the Bills - those teams are worried about 3 main offensive threats from the Bills - Shady, Sammy and yes - Tyrod

 

When you replace Tyrod you want to have a QB to replace him with who is good enough to force teams to consider him as a primary threat - so much so that they are afraid they are going to get beat by him embarrassingly if they don't defend him right. If opposing teams don't have to consider your QB as a primary threat in their game plans, then every defense you play against is a notch or two better than it otherwise would be.

He has to be a pure pocket passer if he wants to last in this league. Simple as that. Oh, he'll continue to have flashes while he makes amazing, scintillating plays with his legs, but if a QB cannot operate from the pocket he will not be able to utilize the entire field and he becomes too easy to defend as a result. Defenses are stocked with great athletes and smart DCs to begin with and if you can't force them to defend the entire space it plays right into their hands.