HurlyBurly51 Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Seems he cut a lot of his draft picks. How many remain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 All! "He will not cut his boys" is the matra on the wall! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 None. TD cutting a bunch of late-round draft picks leaves them with nobody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsGuyInMalta Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 At my count, since TD took over the GM position, the Bills have selected 36 players out of the draft. This includes this past April's draft of course. Out of those players, he's cut 13 of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBob Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 At my count, since TD took over the GM position, the Bills have selected 36 players out of the draft. This includes this past April's draft of course. Out of those players, he's cut 13 of them. 19220[/snapback] That agrees with my math, we still have 23 draft choices aboard. This is what happens as a team rebuilds and gets better talent. Eventually, later round players get cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 23 of TD's 36 draft picks are still with the team. 3 of the players cut today (Fumbling Freddy plus I think Sape and Sobieski) are eligible for the practice squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahnyc Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 I don't think Sape or Sobieski are eligible for the practice squad. I believe that they were on the roster last year for for the full season. I think this disqualifies them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 I don't think Sape or Sobieski are eligible for the practice squad. I believe that they were on the roster last year for for the full season. I think this disqualifies them. 19227[/snapback] I'm not quite sure that's how the practice squad works. Eligiblity is based on the active roster participation, not the full roster. I hope some roster guru out there will shed some light on this subject, in case I am just typing out of my stojan-hole right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 They have to be active for I believe it's 10 games to not be eligible for practice squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarthur31 Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 Seems he cut a lot of his draft picks. How many remain? 19207[/snapback] And this is different from any other GM in the NFL, how? Oh these trolls are easily dismissed with calculated facts! *sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodnarb Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 look around at other teams and their draft picks over the past 3 years. you'll see that the bills are in the top 10 in teams that have retained their picks, and for good reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gross Posted September 5, 2004 Share Posted September 5, 2004 look around at other teams and their draft picks over the past 3 years. you'll see that the bills are in the top 10 in teams that have retained their picks, and for good reason. 19268[/snapback] That's what makes me chuckle when people talk about the Bills drafting horribly. No, we're not starting 22 players that were drafted by the Bills, but we are among the highest with # of draft picks on the roster. We have a handful of Bills'-signed (over the years) UDFAs on the roster as well, with a couple starting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 And this is different from any other GM in the NFL, how? Oh these trolls are easily dismissed with calculated facts! *sigh* 19248[/snapback] Just under 40% of TD's day 2 picks are still with the team, though that number could jump up past 50% if Sobieski, Sape, and Fumbling Freddie all make tomorrow's practice squad (assuming Sobieski and Sape are eligible). Of course, the percentage of day 2 picks still with the team isn't the best measuring statistic. For example, certain day 2 players like Marques Sullivan and Dominique Stevenson should be considered successes because they both contributed to the Bills for 2-3 seasons, and this is all one should reasonably expect from a day 2 drafted player. So how about the percentage of day 2 players who made the Bills roster at some point in their football career? Answer: over 85%, if you include the practice squad as part of the roster and assume Fumbling Freddie makes this year's practice squad. Take this all for what it's worth, but without looking at other NFL teams' draft stats, I think they show TD is doing a slightly above average to very good job during Day 2 of the draft. By the way, I don't believe this is a significant issue to grade an NFL GM. There are more important issues, like day 1 of the draft, overall free agents, undrafted street free agents, hiring decisions with the coaching staff, etc... So if the trolls want to attack TD, this is not the subject with which to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBob Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Just under 40% of TD's day 2 picks are still with the team, though that number could jump up past 50% if Sobieski, Sape, and Fumbling Freddie all make tomorrow's practice squad (assuming Sobieski and Sape are eligible). Of course, the percentage of day 2 picks still with the team isn't the best measuring statistic. For example, certain day 2 players like Marques Sullivan and Dominique Stevenson should be considered successes because they both contributed to the Bills for 2-3 seasons, and this is all one should reasonably expect from a day 2 drafted player. So how about the percentage of day 2 players who made the Bills roster at some point in their football career? Answer: over 85%, if you include the practice squad as part of the roster and assume Fumbling Freddie makes this year's practice squad. Take this all for what it's worth, but without looking at other NFL teams' draft stats, I think they show TD is doing a slightly above average to very good job during Day 2 of the draft. By the way, I don't believe this is a significant issue to grade an NFL GM. There are more important issues, like day 1 of the draft, overall free agents, undrafted street free agents, hiring decisions with the coaching staff, etc... So if the trolls want to attack TD, this is not the subject with which to do so. 19305[/snapback] [sarcasm]Oh KH, you're such a TD apologist! LOL![/sarcasm] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Just under 40% of TD's day 2 picks are still with the team, though that number could jump up past 50% if Sobieski, Sape, and Fumbling Freddie all make tomorrow's practice squad (assuming Sobieski and Sape are eligible). Yep, Sobieski is eligible since he only was active for 1 game last year. I think that's the way they're going with him. As for Sape, he might have to wrestle for that last spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurlyBurly51 Posted September 6, 2004 Author Share Posted September 6, 2004 And this is different from any other GM in the NFL, how? Oh these trolls are easily dismissed with calculated facts! *sigh* 19248[/snapback] Wow, did I touch on a sore spot with you or something? Sensitive! I was simply looking for some information since I was too lazy to look it up - thanks to those who responded! Wasn't insinuating anything about TD. Actually, the percentages are fairly impressive, but I had no idea where we stood. As a matter of fact, before yesterday I had perceived that we barely let go of any of our draft picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frez Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 look around at other teams and their draft picks over the past 3 years. you'll see that the bills are in the top 10 in teams that have retained their picks, and for good reason. 19268[/snapback] Maybe that's TD's downfall? Will Denney and Kelsay step it up this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 A little update/extra info on this topic: Now that Sobieski, Sape, and J. Smith are on the practice squad, that leaves TD with only 10 of his 36 picks no longer with the team in any capacity. Of those 10 players, 2 played at least two full seasons with the Bills (Dom Stevenson, Marques Sullivan), 2 had somewhat promising careers cut short due to injuries (Brandon Spoon, Tony Driver), 3 had careers cut short due to major character issues (Tyrone Robertson, Rodney Wright, Reggie Germany), 1 never made the team but is still having a productive NFL career elsewhere (Jimmy Williams), and 2 never got anywhere much beyond their first Bills preseason (Dan O'Leary, Jarret Ferguson). Over 70% of TD's picks are still with the team. 100% of TD's day one picks are still with the team. Over 50% of TD's day two picks are still with the team. Once again, it's hard to make much of these facts without looking at how other GM's have done in the same past 4 years. And you can't necessarily rate a GM's drafting ability based on the players still with the team since good teams often have no need to keep many of their draft picks. Nevertheless, my own opinion from these stats is that TD has at least done a very good drafting job, if not an excellent job. Of the 10 picks no longer with the team, 7 still made the Bills team at some point and only Ferguson never made an NFL roster. Spoon, Ferguson, and O'Leary were the only draft picks I thought were wastes of a pick. All three didn't have the talent level to match the round in which they were chosen. The three guys with character issues (Robertson, Wright, Germany) each had the definite talent and NFL potential to justify their 7th round draft positions. That's all, folks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayFromDC Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Since when did production stop meaning anything, who cares about percentages, what the hell have they done??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Yeah, but I can go 6-10 with anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 To me it doesn't matter about draft picks that much. This is a 98.5% TD built team. The only hold-over from the Bulter era is Moulds. And TD re-signed him. Frankly in this era of free agency, I'd be more worried about a 100% team of home grown draftees. It's a card game boys and girls. You're going to win some hands, and lose some others. Nobody wins 'em all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayFromDC Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Well we sure as hell haven't been winning them I can tell you that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 a better question to ask is how productive have his picks been 23 of 36 picks made the active roster 1 QB Losman 3 RB Henry, McGahee, Smith 1 TE Euhus 3 WR Evans, Aiken, Reed 1 G Pucillo 3 T Williams, Jennings, McFarland 3 DE Schobel, Denney, Kelsay 3 DT Edwards, Bannan, Anderson 2 LB Haggan, Crowell 3 CB Clements, Thomas, McGee 1 S Wire Of these 23 how many are starting? 1 RB Henry 1 WR Reed/Evans 2 T Williams, Jennings 2 DE Schoebel, Kelsay/Denney 1 CB Clements 1 S Wire (only until Milloy returns) Yielding 8 starters 1 starter is a UDFA, LG Lawrence Smith So TD has found 9 starters 2 starters, WR Moulds and DT Williams are holdovers from previous regime 2 starters via trade, QB Bledsoe and TE Campbell 11 starters via free agency (FB Shelton, C Teague, RG Villarel, DT Adams, LB Posey, LB Spikes, LB Fletcher, CB Vincent, FS Reese, P Mooreman, K Lindell) 13 of 24 starters were free agents 2 of 24 are holdovers 9 of 24 are TD talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Good job /dev/null. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Since when did production stop meaning anything, who cares about percentages, what the hell have they done??? 20014[/snapback] You again, huh? Aren't you the guy who is calling Lee Evans a bust? I see your crusade against TD has not waned... Attention all McDonald's-working, GED-earning, ADHD-struggling simpletons frequenting this board who cannot follow an analysis beyond a simple win-loss record, let alone an analysis of Fake-Fat-Sunny proportions: I wasn't defending TD's job as an overall GENERAL MANAGER, but without any other drafting stats from other teams that can be used as a reference, I AM defending his job as a DRAFT EVALUATOR. Until anyone else here can post stats from other teams that show TD is doing a comparably worse job of drafting, then there is no reason to be complaining about TD's drafting abilities. As for TD's overall ability as a GM and his win-loss record, only one of his 3 seasons here can be considered a failure. In his first season, we were in serious salary cap jail. In his second season, we were still in salary cap jail and managed to improve by 5 games. In his third season as GM, we should have made the playoffs but instead underachieved. The blame went primarily to GW and KG for this. Was there more to last year's failure than coaching? Was TD to blame for more than just a bad head coach hiring? We don't know yet, but we should find out by the end of this season. So then let the season unfold before you grab your pitchforks and flaming toches and rush on over to OBD. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 Good job /dev/null. 20040[/snapback] I agree. Evaluating actual starters from the draft (plus the UDFA talent pool) is a good way - perhaps the best way - to evaluate TD's drafting abilities. 10 of his 25 starters this Sunday (I included long snapper as a full-time position like K and P) will be his former draft picks or UDFA's. 40%. That's pretty good and probably among the highest in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest joe b Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 I know he kept Pukecillo and that has to be only because he drafted him in round 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 I know he kept Pukecillo and that has to be only because he drafted him in round 4. 20060[/snapback] First of all, Pukecillo was drafted in round 7. Second of all, the coaches make the determination on who gets cut and who stays, not TD. And third of all, Pukecillo is not a good starter but still is a respectable reserve who's had a full preseason experience with McNally and a full two years with the majority of the OL. Who else would we have kept instead of Pukey? Sullivan? No, at least Pukester has a work ethic. Sobieski and Esposito? Well they're on the practice squad now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted September 6, 2004 Share Posted September 6, 2004 You again, huh? Aren't you the guy who is calling Lee Evans a bust? I see your crusade against TD has not waned... Attention all McDonald's-working, GED-earning, ADHD-struggling simpletons frequenting this board who cannot follow an analysis beyond a simple win-loss record, let alone an analysis of Fake-Fat-Sunny proportions: I wasn't defending TD's job as an overall GENERAL MANAGER, but without any other drafting stats from other teams that can be used as a reference, I AM defending his job as a DRAFT EVALUATOR. Until anyone else here can post stats from other teams that show TD is doing a comparably worse job of drafting, then there is no reason to be complaining about TD's drafting abilities. As for TD's overall ability as a GM and his win-loss record, only one of his 3 seasons here can be considered a failure. In his first season, we were in serious salary cap jail. In his second season, we were still in salary cap jail and managed to improve by 5 games. In his third season as GM, we should have made the playoffs but instead underachieved. The blame went primarily to GW and KG for this. Was there more to last year's failure than coaching? Was TD to blame for more than just a bad head coach hiring? We don't know yet, but we should find out by the end of this season. So then let the season unfold before you grab your pitchforks and flaming toches and rush on over to OBD. Peace. 20051[/snapback] I think this post is right on target, hits the nail on the head and other cliches of praise beyond you mentioning my new name! I think you are right on target that only 1 of TDs seasons can be honestly judged a failure on his part, Unfortunately for him in this what have you done for me lately league and world, it was the last one. I think the irony here though is that this failure as you point out was the failure of the coaches and GW and KG (along with Ruel) lost their jobs due to this failure, However, I think that their failure has to be a big part of assessment of TDs work, because to me his biggest mistake occured right after he arrived on the Bills scene because for 'never again' or whatever reasons he hired an HC who was not ready for primetime. I think this first should have become clear to fans in GW's first season when he took a marketing and motivational tack of declaring that the Bills goal his first year was to make the playoffs. I pointed out this was stupid in a louder and louder virtual voice as the 3-13 record stacked up. I was dosappointed (though I guess not surprised) that some folks defended him saying that there was nothing else he could say since admitting that 2001 was a rebui8lding year was unacceotable. I heartily agree that admitting the obvious of 2001 being a rebuilding year was not possible, but i also reject the notion that he only had two choices, either stupidly give-up or stupidly claim we were going to make the playoffs. If only he and TD had taken the Sabre-like stance of declaring the 2001 Bills the "hardest" working team in fiitbakk and they could have both motivated the TEAM by holding them to a high standard and disentangle claims of success from producing a good record they could not produce. I blame GW for this, but I blame TD for not picking a better HC. 2002 also saw a critical mistake that TG should be held accountable for in that it was pretty obvious to me (even a simpleton outsider) that HW was not up to winningthe game. I held out some hope once it became clear that TD was not going to pull the plug on his employment that he was setting things up so KG could be disciplined with the threat of moving former OC Les Steckel in to replace him. Alas and alack it never happened and we went 6-10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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