brihs2005 Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Why is everyone so down on McGee that they think he can't be a starting #2 Corner in this league or for this team. He had a REALLY rocky start, but he started to come into his own later in the season. I didn't see a lot of the same mistakes that i did in the first few games he started. While not a shut down corner i like what he brings to our Defense and think he has earned a starting spot. I agree we need more depth at Corner, but it seems that everyone is looking to land a FA corner or draft a corner so McGee can go back to being the nickle. Did i not see something during the last 6-8 weeks of the season where McGee played himself out of the starting lineup instead of into a solid #2 corner on our depth chart? Your thoughts...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 I agree 100%, I think he'll be a stud CB in this league with more experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JStranger76 Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 He just isn't very good in man to man coverage. VA Bills said it best, he has very bad hips and gets turned around way to easily. We could do better but at least he isn't Chris Watson! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njsue Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Too small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 I think McGee is a very capable #2 corner in this league. He has a great nose for the ball and a short term memory for bad plays. Having said that, drafting another CB is critical. Who knows whether Clements will stay beyond 2005, and you can never have enough good CB's for your nickel and dime formations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 No particular beef here - he's done ok. But I recall the various scouting reports prior to him being drafted - the consensus was that he would be a fine free safety, and played CB in his last year out of team necessity. He was also thought to be among the very best return men in college, so it was disappointing to see GW et al not use him in that role in his first season. He certainly vindicated the scout's opinions in that regard last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Rich Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Why is everyone so down on McGee that they think he can't be a starting #2 Corner in this league or for this team. He had a REALLY rocky start, but he started to come into his own later in the season. I didn't see a lot of the same mistakes that i did in the first few games he started. While not a shut down corner i like what he brings to our Defense and think he has earned a starting spot. I agree we need more depth at Corner, but it seems that everyone is looking to land a FA corner or draft a corner so McGee can go back to being the nickle. Did i not see something during the last 6-8 weeks of the season where McGee played himself out of the starting lineup instead of into a solid #2 corner on our depth chart? Your thoughts...? 255638[/snapback] I've posted before that I feel that we need another veteran corner so that we can better match up against multiple WR sets. I was at the finale against Pittsburgh when that point was painfully driven home. Whether we get one to become the starter opposite Clements or to be the nickel back, we do need one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoho Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 He just isn't very good in man to man coverage. VA Bills said it best, he has very bad hips and gets turned around way to easily. We could do better but at least he isn't Chris Watson! 255644[/snapback] We play a very aggressive blitz defense that leaves our corners one on one frequently. In such a case, the corners have to play conservatively to avoid the big play. The key is to learn when to make an aggresive move to the ball and when to lay back, play it safe and make a tackle. Clemens has really learned this and the QB's stay away from him in general. McGee is younger and therefore they tend to look his direction more. There is no such thing as a shutdown corner in this defensive package. McGee is young, athletic, and has a nose for the ball. For a guy with bad hips, he sure can evade tacklers on kickoff returns. McGee will be fine with another year out there. We can not have pro-bowlers at every position. He is more than adequate as our #2 corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 There is nothing wrong with McGee that can't be fixed with experience. What I saw last year is a young guy who was relying on his athletic ability to get by. As far as hips go, I don't see a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvansOnAFlyPattern Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 if I remember correctly......it was Nate who was burnt multiple times......and ah ....the jacksonville game..........knock it down nate........knock it down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 if I remember correctly......it was Nate who was burnt multiple times......and ah ....the jacksonville game..........knock it down nate........knock it down... 255687[/snapback] Nate wasn't burnt much this past season and is a big time playmaker. There are no CBs in the history of the NFL who don't give up catches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 I don't think McGee is terrible, and he will get better. His size is not great, given the trend toward big, physical receivers, particularly in the AFC. I like McGee better as a nickel back. All things staying the same though, a good defensive line can mask a weakness in the secondary, rarely the other way around...re-sign PW please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderweb Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 I don't think McGee is terrible, and he will get better. His size is not great, given the trend toward big, physical receivers, particularly in the AFC. I like McGee better as a nickel back. All things staying the same though, a good defensive line can mask a weakness in the secondary, rarely the other way around...re-sign PW please! 255710[/snapback] McGee early in the year got picked on quite heavily, but really did settle down for the most part in the second half of the year. While winfiled had far superior technique and was one of the best tacklers pound for pound, he lost many points because the "big" INT just wasn't part of his game. McGee will jump routes a bit more, has shown the ability to pick a few off. I like his "big" play possibilities. Winfield also did alot of his tackling "after" he gave up the catch. I don't care how close he was when the opposition WR made catch after catch. Also, to this observer, Winfiled seemed to struggle with the deep ball more than a quality CB should have. Winfield was and still is a solid CB, just no where near worth the ridiculous money he got from Minny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 There is nothing wrong with McGee that can't be fixed with experience. What I saw last year is a young guy who was relying on his athletic ability to get by. As far as hips go, I don't see a problem. 255668[/snapback] I am torn on this one. He was having a lot of problems early on, but a big part of it was also explained by stiffs at FS. When Vincent came back, McGee's game "improved" but he was still picked on mercilessly. While he may have the talent to eventually become a solid No. 2, I'm still favoring the addition of Chad Scott to the secondary, as that would immediately make ours among, if not the best, units in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 I am torn on this one. He was having a lot of problems early on, but a big part of it was also explained by stiffs at FS. When Vincent came back, McGee's game "improved" but he was still picked on mercilessly. While he may have the talent to eventually become a solid No. 2, I'm still favoring the addition of Chad Scott to the secondary, as that would immediately make ours among, if not the best, units in the league. 255745[/snapback] I'm not sure Scott still has "it" - though if he were willing to take the vet minimum and paltry signing bonus plus incentives he'd be worth a look. Sometimes you just have to let a guy succeed or fail. Considering the guy on the other side is Nate Clements, if I were the OC my offense would certainly be attacking dude with half a season of starts under his belt and Ike Reese over him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 I'm not sure Scott still has "it" - though if he were willing to take the vet minimum and paltry signing bonus plus incentives he'd be worth a look. Sometimes you just have to let a guy succeed or fail. Considering the guy on the other side is Nate Clements, if I were the OC my offense would certainly be attacking dude with half a season of starts under his belt and Ike Reese over him. 255751[/snapback] I'm hoping that Scott's injury history will help to keep his price down. There are enough No. 1 CBs on the market to appease the teams needing the shut-down corner. I honestly think that Scott will cost us not much more than the vet minimu, which in his case will be about $750 - $1MM. I'm going on Scott's performance vs us as the gauging stick. He shut down every Bills receiver he faced that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Several years ago, the Bills were in the playoffs with their 4th and 5th string corners as I recall. You saw how that turned out. I think that MaGee has a great upside, but he returns kickoffs. Clements IS very good, and he returns punts. This increases the injury risk for both. The Bills are dangerously thin at CB. The pass rush that our front 4 provides is good, but not earth shattering. This football team needs more quality corners and quickly, considering that Nate is all but gone after this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 There is nothing wrong with McGee that can't be fixed with experience. What I saw last year is a young guy who was relying on his athletic ability to get by. As far as hips go, I don't see a problem. 255668[/snapback] Mcgee seems to want to ride his receivers to the outside. When the receiver goes like he is cutting that way there were numerous times where Mcgee rather then keeping his hips square turns to the outsidewhile the receiver is still underneath him. This gives the inside route to the receiver if he recognizes it and was a big part of Mcgee getting burned during the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Mcgee seems to want to ride his receivers to the outside. 255869[/snapback] That's probably what was being coached. As he is supposed to have help over the top. Like I said earlier, experience is what the kid is lacking - it sure isn't athletic ability. As for turning his hips, he doesn't have any problem doing it when he's returning kicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Mcgee got alot better after Vincent started playing Free Safety. Winfield now has a coach on the field with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 That's probably what was being coached. As he is supposed to have help over the top. Like I said earlier, experience is what the kid is lacking - it sure isn't athletic ability. As for turning his hips, he doesn't have any problem doing it when he's returning kicks. 255880[/snapback] It's different and maybe it's coaching but. But corners are not supposed to commit the hips until the receiver is even with them or the alternate route is blocked by his body. mcgee seems to want to commit his hips early. Some guys do it naturally, like Dion, even Clements does, others like Watson never learn. Mcgee has been in the NFL long enough that he should have learned by now. Like I said he is in my humble opinion better suited for nickel/dome or Free safety then having to be a corner on an island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 It's different and maybe it's coaching but. But corners are not supposed to commit the hips until the receiver is even with them or the alternate route is blocked by his body. mcgee seems to want to commit his hips early. Some guys do it naturally, like Dion, even Clements does, others like Watson never learn. Mcgee has been in the NFL long enough that he should have learned by now. Like I said he is in my humble opinion better suited for nickel/dome or Free safety then having to be a corner on an island. 255884[/snapback] He's been in the NFL long enough? Can't say I agree with that, especially considering where he played in college and last season he was forced in to a starting role with Ike Reese being his "help". He played better and better as the season went on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 He's been in the NFL long enough? Can't say I agree with that, especially considering where he played in college and last season he was forced in to a starting role with Ike Reese being his "help". He played better and better as the season went on. 255892[/snapback] Not sure what he faced NWS-Lousiana. But he is in his second year where he started most of last year and was the nickel the year before. We'll see. You guys are probably right, it probably is coaching, but it just seems like Winfield, Nate, and even Kenny Irvin never really had the issue of commit early on a receiver. Nate tends to jump routes and try to be a ball hawk, Winfield never was beat, but never seemed to make big plays either. Irvin seemed to be a little skittish and would get burned underneath, but that was the slack coaching style. Liek I said, to me it looks like Mcgee gets wrapped around himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Not sure what he faced NWS-Lousiana. But he is in his second year where he started most of last year and was the nickel the year before. We'll see. You guys are probably right, it probably is coaching, but it just seems like Winfield, Nate, and even Kenny Irvin never really had the issue of commit early on a receiver. Nate tends to jump routes and try to be a ball hawk, Winfield never was beat, but never seemed to make big plays either. Irvin seemed to be a little skittish and would get burned underneath, but that was the slack coaching style. Liek I said, to me it looks like Mcgee gets wrapped around himself. 255901[/snapback] To me it looks like he's overcompensating for not being mentally ready to play. I'll be very surprised if by the midway point of this season it hasn't "clicked" for him and he becomes pretty damn good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckeyeBill Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 You got to remember something... the Bills coaches are not stupid, and Vincient is one heck-of-a corner. We were on a potential playoff run, if McGee was not worthy of being the number 2 corner, Vincient would have stepped back into his own shoes. The coaches trust McGee. Playing with 3 probowlers in the secondary (TV, LM, NC) of course their gonna try to pick on McGee, but he holds his own. Also, he played against the best in the Probowl. I'm glad he got some playing time as corner in that game. Good for him. Look for McGee to be the real deal at Number 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 You got to remember something... the Bills coaches are not stupid, and Vincient is one heck-of-a corner. We were on a potential playoff run, if McGee was not worthy of being the number 2 corner, Vincient would have stepped back into his own shoes. The coaches trust McGee. Playing with 3 probowlers in the secondary (TV, LM, NC) of course their gonna try to pick on McGee, but he holds his own. Also, he played against the best in the Probowl. I'm glad he got some playing time as corner in that game. Good for him. Look for McGee to be the real deal at Number 2. 255922[/snapback] Personally, I think you're right on McGee but I think the coaches thought McGee at corner/Vincent at safety/Reese in street clothes (not really but I wish) was ALOT stronger than Vincent at corner/Reese on the field for actual snaps/McGee in nickle. Hard to disagree after watching Reese sleepwalk through Sunday afternoons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seadog Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 You got to remember something... the Bills coaches are not stupid, and Vincient is one heck-of-a corner. We were on a potential playoff run, if McGee was not worthy of being the number 2 corner, Vincient would have stepped back into his own shoes. The coaches trust McGee. Playing with 3 probowlers in the secondary (TV, LM, NC) of course their gonna try to pick on McGee, but he holds his own. Also, he played against the best in the Probowl. I'm glad he got some playing time as corner in that game. Good for him. Look for McGee to be the real deal at Number 2. 255922[/snapback] I got to agree. I'm not sold on Vincent as our starting saftey and Mcgee as our #1 corner. I think the coaches must have been very desperate at saftey and maybe want to see what Mcgee has as a corner. Vincent is a Pro Bowl corner and i think that's where he sould line up, Mcgee #2. Finding a stud saftey in the draft or FA will be easier than a starting corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Why is everyone so down on McGee that they think he can't be a starting #2 Corner in this league or for this team. He had a REALLY rocky start, but he started to come into his own later in the season. I didn't see a lot of the same mistakes that i did in the first few games he started. While not a shut down corner i like what he brings to our Defense and think he has earned a starting spot. I agree we need more depth at Corner, but it seems that everyone is looking to land a FA corner or draft a corner so McGee can go back to being the nickle. Did i not see something during the last 6-8 weeks of the season where McGee played himself out of the starting lineup instead of into a solid #2 corner on our depth chart? Your thoughts...? 255638[/snapback] Here's my thoughts, McGee was a Pro Bowler because of his ability to return kick offs. Due to his size and wanting him to remain the primary kick off returnman I don't want him starting in the worry he might become hurt. While there's no doubt he could be a good #2, I think he better serves the team as a great KO return specialist and nickel back. As stated in an earlier thread I'd love him be another Allen Rossum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarthur31 Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Why is everyone so down on McGee that they think he can't be a starting #2 Corner in this league or for this team. He had a REALLY rocky start, but he started to come into his own later in the season. I didn't see a lot of the same mistakes that i did in the first few games he started. While not a shut down corner i like what he brings to our Defense and think he has earned a starting spot. I agree we need more depth at Corner, but it seems that everyone is looking to land a FA corner or draft a corner so McGee can go back to being the nickle. Did i not see something during the last 6-8 weeks of the season where McGee played himself out of the starting lineup instead of into a solid #2 corner on our depth chart? Your thoughts...? 255638[/snapback] I think he's a pretty good corner. He turned his season around in the second half. I really think he'll be better than Winfield was covering guys 1 on 1 someday but will never hit like him. If he can reproduce then he will be an upgrade over Vincent, IMO. We need to replace the safeties now becuz our starters are getting up there in age. Speed is something you don't want to lose here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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