BuffaloHokie13 Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 That's exactly my point! The TT guys act like he's the first QB in the history of the game to have a positive effect on the run game. He's not. Agreed on the OL, criminally underrated. They had a huge part of the success of the running game, and even the passing game, but mostly TT gets the credit for it all. So your point is that TT isn't the first QB in history to have this effect and you use the GOAT as your example? Seems like a point of praise, not a reason to tear down the contributions that Tyrod brings to the offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 Injuries can make players busts. See Kijana Carter That's an interesting take Joe. I think that I tend to agree. When I look at guys like Carter, Greg Oden, Ennis and Trev Alberts they all fall into the bust category. I would venture to say that things might have been different if they were healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 So your point is that TT isn't the first QB in history to have this effect and you use the GOAT as your example? Seems like a point of praise, not a reason to tear down the contributions that Tyrod brings to the offense. I can use really any decent QB with a decent RB. Brady just drives the point home round these parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billykaykay Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 The OL gets credit for all of it. I know it's criminal to say around here but I think Jordan Mills did a pretty good job in the running game too. He isn't good in pass protection but he's not totally useless like some think. That's the point. Everything plays a role in the good and the bad. I guess that I'm "a TT guy" if I have him between Tannehill and Dalton at around 20ish? That's just where he is. I find myself defending him when I hear things like "backup." There aren't 32 better starters than him in the league. That doesn't mean he's great. You could do better and you could do worse. Why are you wasting your time arguing. It seems to me that he is one of those people that has an opinion and then scours the internet for any stat that reinforces his opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 Why are you wasting your time arguing. It seems to me that he is one of those people that has an opinion and then scours the internet for any stat that reinforces his opinion.I don't know; I just can't help myself. Should have been a lawyer because I love to argue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 I can use really any decent QB with a decent RB. Brady just drives the point home round these parts. Did you see the stats I posted? Our running game fell apart when Tyrod wasn't on the field. Went from best efficiency in the league to worst efficiency in the league when EJ or Cardale was on the field. How can you say Tyrod didn't contribute to the success of our running game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 Did you see the stats I posted? Our running game fell apart when Tyrod wasn't on the field. Went from best efficiency in the league to worst efficiency in the league when EJ or Cardale was on the field. How can you say Tyrod didn't contribute to the success of our running game? ..of course he does...yet he cannot be a consistently be an offense bailout due to overall offense ineptitude unless you want to get the kid killed.....what team fears the anemic passing "attack (COUGH)"?.....shut down the run and contain TT and then what?..........white flag of surrender?........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 ..of course he does...yet he cannot be a consistently be an offense bailout due to overall offense ineptitude unless you want to get the kid killed.....what team fears the anemic passing "attack (COUGH)"?.....shut down the run and contain TT and then what?..........white flag of surrender?........ I guess I missed this "overall offense ineptitude." Since does 16th in yards and 10th in scoring equate to ineptitude? Maybe you mean the passing game was anemic. But if that's what you mean, then you're saying the only kind of offense that is any good is passing offense. That's wrong. If my team is first in yards and first in scoring, I don't care how they got there. They could lead the league in penalties called against the opponent. Works for me, if it translates into yards and points. Everyone knows that if the defense (19th in yards and 16th in scoring) had been 16th and 10th, like the offense, the Bills would have made the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 Did you see the stats I posted? Our running game fell apart when Tyrod wasn't on the field. Went from best efficiency in the league to worst efficiency in the league when EJ or Cardale was on the field. How can you say Tyrod didn't contribute to the success of our running game? Have you ever read a post I made? Who are you talking to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 (edited) I guess I missed this "overall offense ineptitude." Since does 16th in yards and 10th in scoring equate to ineptitude? Maybe you mean the passing game was anemic. But if that's what you mean, then you're saying the only kind of offense that is any good is passing offense. That's wrong. If my team is first in yards and first in scoring, I don't care how they got there. They could lead the league in penalties called against the opponent. Works for me, if it translates into yards and points. Everyone knows that if the defense (19th in yards and 16th in scoring) had been 16th and 10th, like the offense, the Bills would have made the playoffs. ...sincerely apologize for the confusion bud...would you say Buffalo's passing game is a viable offensive threat on its own merit?.....sure an occasional TT scramble needs to be in the mix, but is it a viable threat ONLY because of his scramble ability and how long can that go on before the kid gets killed?.....DC's figured out mobile guys like RG III and Kaep because they stuck to it....Wilson learned how to adapt and became highly selective when or IF to scramble....as an aside, he took a beating because of a woeful offensive line....if DC's shut down Buffalo's run game and contain TT, is the passing game a prolific threat to win games?...you be the judge, BUT 2017 may be a whole different ballgame....stay tuned............ I guess I missed this "overall offense ineptitude." Since does 16th in yards and 10th in scoring equate to ineptitude? Maybe you mean the passing game was anemic. But if that's what you mean, then you're saying the only kind of offense that is any good is passing offense. That's wrong. If my team is first in yards and first in scoring, I don't care how they got there. They could lead the league in penalties called against the opponent. Works for me, if it translates into yards and points. Everyone knows that if the defense (19th in yards and 16th in scoring) had been 16th and 10th, like the offense, the Bills would have made the playoffs. ...I apologize for the confusion bud....ask yourself if the Bills' passing offense can stand as a viable threat on its own merit....sure TT's scambles are a component but can they be a consistent bailout or an occasional grace saver?....a consistent bailout gets him killed....DC's can take away the run game and contain TT leaving the Bills with what, a passing game threat to win games?....hardly....BUT 2017 may be a different story....so stay tuned............ Edited July 15, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 I can use really any decent QB with a decent RB. Brady just drives the point home round these parts. No, you can't. But I'd love to see the attempt. Be sure to actually look at their stats with an without each other! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) No, you can't. But I'd love to see the attempt. Be sure to actually look at their stats with an without each other! Leveon Bell rushed for under 4 YPC without Ben under center. Compared to his 4.9 YPC average last year with 11 games of Ben and the games with Jones factored in. God, it's just so easy being right all the time. Edited July 16, 2017 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Leveon Bell rushed for under 4 YPC without Ben under center. Compared to his 4.9 YPC average last year with 11 games of Ben and the games with Jones factored in. God, it's just so easy being right all the time. Why was Blount worse with Brady? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 ...sincerely apologize for the confusion bud...would you say Buffalo's passing game is a viable offensive threat on its own merit?.....sure an occasional TT scramble needs to be in the mix, but is it a viable threat ONLY because of his scramble ability and how long can that go on before the kid gets killed?.....DC's figured out mobile guys like RG III and Kaep because they stuck to it....Wilson learned how to adapt and became highly selective when or IF to scramble....as an aside, he took a beating because of a woeful offensive line....if DC's shut down Buffalo's run game and contain TT, is the passing game a prolific threat to win games?...you be the judge, BUT 2017 may be a whole different ballgame....stay tuned............ ...I apologize for the confusion bud....ask yourself if the Bills' passing offense can stand as a viable threat on its own merit....sure TT's scambles are a component but can they be a consistent bailout or an occasional grace saver?....a consistent bailout gets him killed....DC's can take away the run game and contain TT leaving the Bills with what, a passing game threat to win games?....hardly....BUT 2017 may be a different story....so stay tuned............ You didn't defend your statement - absurd statement in my mind - that the Bills offense was inept in 2016. If you can pass and can't run, your offense sputters when you struggle in the passing game. Just the same as you seem to think the Bills offense struggles when the run game is in trouble. Practically no offense is perfect. But imperfection doesn't make it inept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 You didn't defend your statement - absurd statement in my mind - that the Bills offense was inept in 2016. If you can pass and can't run, your offense sputters when you struggle in the passing game. Just the same as you seem to think the Bills offense struggles when the run game is in trouble. Practically no offense is perfect. But imperfection doesn't make it inept. Top 10 in scoring and top 10 DVOA. The offense was fine. They can get better but they were fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Leveon Bell rushed for under 4 YPC without Ben under center. Compared to his 4.9 YPC average last year with 11 games of Ben and the games with Jones factored in. God, it's just so easy being right all the time. So at this point Tyrod's in company with Brady and Big Ben in your eyes. Please continue about how that's somehow bad company. By the way, both Ben and Bell are better than 'decent'. And your point was 'any decent QB with a decent RB'. Good to see that 2 of the best QBs in the game, the RB who led the league in TDs and a top 5 RB somehow make that statement correct. LeSean just came off his best YPC year of his career at 28 years old. His next closest year was 2010 with Vick when he was 22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) Why was Blount worse with Brady? Clearly because teams feared Brissett more says the TT crowd. So at this point Tyrod's in company with Brady and Big Ben in your eyes. Please continue about how that's somehow bad company. By the way, both Ben and Bell are better than 'decent'. And your point was 'any decent QB with a decent RB'. Good to see that 2 of the best QBs in the game, the RB who led the league in TDs and a top 5 RB somehow make that statement correct. LeSean just came off his best YPC year of his career at 28 years old. His next closest year was 2010 with Vick when he was 22. I could list 15 more dude. You're wasting your time. First time "it's just the GOAT." Second time "Two of the best QB's." By the time I get to Ryan Tannenhill, you'll be saying, "So TT's company are QB's who have played in the NFL, and also started in college? Such bad company!" I wonder if McCoy's success stemmed from finally being healthy and playing under the best run game coordinator in the NFL today? Nah couldn't be. As we all know, McCoy had his second best year of his career under TT in 2015. Right? Oh, no. Oh and his third closest year, a .1 difference from his next closest year, was with Nick Foles, Mr. Mobile himself, as shifty in the pocket as any QB ever has been. He carried the ball 100 times more than that 2010 year. Had an extra 600 rushing yards that year and a couple more TD's. But that was nothing compared to Vick and that extra .1 YPC though. Edited July 16, 2017 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 (edited) Clearly because teams feared Brissett more says the TT crowd.You don't have an answer. Honestly, Brissett has some mobility (as does Jimmy G) and that certainly contributes to it. You were the one that brought Brady into the equation. They ran better without him. "Can't wait to see you play the semantics game..." Edited July 16, 2017 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 You don't have an answer. Honestly, Brissett has some mobility (as does Jimmy G) and that certainly contributes to it. You were the one that brought Brady into the equation. They ran better without him. "Can't wait to see you play the semantics game..." Is your argument that Jimmy G and Brissett makes their run game better than Tom Brady does? If not, then I'm not sure why we're arguing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Is your argument that Jimmy G and Brissett makes their run game better than Tom Brady does? If not, then I'm not sure why we're arguing. The numbers from last year would indicate that they ran the ball better with Jimmy G or Brisett. In those games they avergaed 4.2 YPC and 135.5 rushing yards a game. In the Brady games they averaged a whooping 3.8 YPC and 110 rushing yards per game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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