GunnerBill Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) Nobody...and I mean nobody...is suggesting it doesn't. But let's not pretend that the difference between Brady and Taylor is Belichick, that the difference between Sherman and Gilmore is Carrol, Julio Jones and Robert Woods Dan Quinn. It gets more preposterous as we go, doesn't it? Players make plays. Better players make better plays more frequently. https://twitter.com/YardsPerPass/status/796797973808222208 But we not talking about poor players here. Gilmore has been a top 12 corner in this league the past 2 years... Darby was a candidate for DROY.... we are not running bums out there. The scheme is just exposing them more than before. Edited November 10, 2016 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 I'm NOT saying coaching is everything - at all, it's part of the puzzle. I'm not letting the players off the hook either. They have to prepare and make plays. But I have to look and wonder what is different? Why have they regressed? What has changed? It's not just that they aren't trying or don't care. There's at the very least a loss of focus for some reason. Why is that? Are they bad on every play? Or have we just played two QB's the last two weeks that have made them pay dearly for a small number of lapses? And if it's more so the latter, then credit be to the opposition. They've made plays. It's what players do. And which piece of the puzzle does coaching comprise? Does it credit for having the team hang tough on prime time in a hostile environment after things went sour early? Is it the part of the puzzle that put players in a position to hold the opposition to 3 points on 55 yards in the second half? How about for the scheme that has generated more sacks than any other team in the NFL? The blame coaches crowd would be a lot more credible if they were willing to credit coaches too. But that's exceedingly rare. My position on the matter has been simple and unwavering since Jauron was in town: Players make plays. Scheme can only carry bad players so far. A great QB cures all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 The players have regressed and the coaches matter. To what degrees? Hard to quantify. And we are crediting a coach, just not one who is on the staff this year. Oh, and we made Fitz look like an All Pro too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) The players have regressed and the coaches matter. To what degrees? Hard to quantify. And we are crediting a coach, just not one who is on the staff this year. Oh, and we made Fitz look like an All Pro too. Fitz played like an All-Pro. We weren't the cause. Players make plays. He was hot that night. Also, sounds like you're arguing that lapses from our CB's have been sustained and not isolated/exposed. On that we fundamentally disagree, and the film/stats don't flatter your position. Edited November 10, 2016 by The Big Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 But we not talking about poor players here. Gilmore has been a top 12 corner in this league the past 2 years... Darby was a candidate for DROY.... we are not running bums out there. The scheme is just exposing them more than before. Solid point. Interesting that we are getting FAR more sacks than last year, but our DB's are getting burned more. How much has our blitz percentage changed? What other factors might account for this? Is the scheme that different? Serious questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Solid point. Interesting that we are getting FAR more sacks than last year, but our DB's are getting burned more. How much has our blitz percentage changed? What other factors might account for this? Is the scheme that different? Serious questions. We're blitzing less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Fitz played like an All-Pro. We weren't the cause. Players make plays. He was hot that night. Also, sounds like you're arguing that lapses from our CB's have been sustained and not isolated/exposed. On that we fundamentally disagree, and the film/stats don't flatter your position. They had Jets WR's well covered for the most part, but they failed to look for the ball and make plays. Yes, the players did NOT make the plays that they more frequently did the year before. What changed? Coaching? Scheme? We sorely miss AW again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 But we not talking about poor players here. Gilmore has been a top 12 corner in this league the past 2 years... Darby was a candidate for DROY.... we are not running bums out there. The scheme is just exposing them more than before. How? How does a top 12 corner get exposed more? You can either cover or you can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 We're blitzing less. That's interesting. We don't have Mario out there dogging it, so that helps. But the difference is night and day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Re: Darby--there is such a thing as a sophomore slump. For all players, there is such a thing as a slump, in general. Again, I ask, do you really think these two are playing poorly play in and play out, or have opposing QB's just exposed them on a handful of lapses? And has that exposure been magnified by the fact that QB's made great throws to good receivers and the outcome was that much better in their favor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Gilmore is a kitty, he doesn't like too tackle He does like to hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 That's interesting. We don't have Mario out there dogging it, so that helps. But the difference is night and day! You really think that they are hopeless each and every play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 You really think that they are hopeless each and every play? No, I should have been more clear. I was talking about all the sacks we are racking up. I think our safety play is hurting our CB's, and I think we miss AW more than most people realize, both in terms of talent and comminication. But then, he was gone a lot of last year too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Landing Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 This board is starting to achieve the tenor of offseason. Threads like this should just die on the vine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 (edited) No, I should have been more clear. I was talking about all the sacks we are racking up. I think our safety play is hurting our CB's, and I think we miss AW more than most people realize, both in terms of talent and comminication. But then, he was gone a lot of last year too. The loss of AW last year cannot be overstated. His loss was felt on MNF too and will be for the rest of the year. Whaley's misses have been few, but not adequately addressing safety this off season disappointed me greatly. Edited November 10, 2016 by The Big Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Darby was sick. He's been making me sick. Maybe he's been watching himself on game film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 The loss of AW last year cannot be overstated. His loss was felt on MNF too and will be for the rest of the year. Whaley's misses have been few, but not adequately addressing safety this off season disappointed me greatly. They had high hopes for Blanton, the team and a lot of the fans were excited for when we signed him. Turns out he sucks. It would be interesting to hear why they didn't value Rambo over some of these other guys. Rambo isn't good, but at least he is good at something...the same can't be said for Meeks/Blanton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 How? How does a top 12 corner get exposed more? You can either cover or you can't. That is rubbish I am afraid. Some players are more comfortable in certain coverages than others. Gilmore's success in his NFL career has been as a guy asked to press at the line and be aggressive with the security of safety help over the top. He is not a read and react player he is an instincts guy and Rex looks to me like he is asking him to think more than he has before and it is leading to these occasional (and with Gilmore I think the tape shows it has been occasional except week 2 whereas I think with Darby it has been more of a regular problem) mental mistakes. Now you can say "well if he can't concentrate and read the play he isn't good enough" but we know there are things he can do at a very high level.... he is being asked to do fewer of them. Is Gilmore playing as well as last year? No he isn't, no question. Is he making some business decisions? Yes I believe he is. But is the scheme helping him? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 That is rubbish I am afraid. Some players are more comfortable in certain coverages than others. Gilmore's success in his NFL career has been as a guy asked to press at the line and be aggressive with the security of safety help over the top. He is not a read and react player he is an instincts guy and Rex looks to me like he is asking him to think more than he has before and it is leading to these occasional (and with Gilmore I think the tape shows it has been occasional except week 2 whereas I think with Darby it has been more of a regular problem) mental mistakes. Now you can say "well if he can't concentrate and read the play he isn't good enough" but we know there are things he can do at a very high level.... he is being asked to do fewer of them. Is Gilmore playing as well as last year? No he isn't, no question. Is he making some business decisions? Yes I believe he is. But is the scheme helping him? No. Then if he can't hack it in the scheme, then we can name one of the teams that won't be paying him top dollar this offseason. The way arguments like this are frequently framed are suggestive of duties that are prohibitively difficult. I don't by that crap. Just because it's not something he excels at doesn't give him a free pass to outright suck at it. And if he was in fact a top 12 CB, then he wouldn't. Same thing was true last year of Mario. Oh, he's not being asked to do the one thing he does well! That's not a free pass to suck at literally everything else. And in Gilmore's case that includes the basics. Like tackling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Look I respect you are giving an ex athelte's opinion but I am giving an ex coach's opinion. Coaching in any team sport is about using what your guys do best. Unless it is a sport with unlimited resources to go and get the best at everything you have to come up with a way of using the talents you have. That is the job. I don't absolve Gilmore of blame and I certainly didn't absolve Mario of blame last year when he gave up halfway through the season.... but coaching is about putting your players in position to do what they are best at and covering what they are worst at. It is why I hate "my way or the highway" system coaches. I don't rate Chip Kelly for the same reason. You suit what you do to what you have. You don't force feed what you want to do onto people. I know Rex would say he tried to take my approach last year and it failed... but forcing his system onto the D hasn't been a rip roaring success either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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