BringBackOrton Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 You obviously don't watch other teams play. Oh, I do. I also know that Denver and Minnesota are both statistically top 5 in YPP, PPG, YPG and a multitude of other categories. With worse offenses in terms of sustaining drives as ours. How do you explain that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Oh, I do. I also know that Denver and Minnesota are both statistically top 5 in YPP, PPG, YPG and a multitude of other categories. With worse offenses in terms of sustaining drives as ours. How do you explain that? Their defenses are better than ours? Who was arguing otherwise? But anyways: Time per drive: Minnesota: 10th Buffalo: 23rd Denver: 27th Drives per game: Denver 6 Minnesota 19 Buffalo 27 Plays per game: Denver: 18th Minnesota 20th Buffalo 30th Plays per drive: Minnesota: 14th Buffalo 22 Denver: 30th To say these teams are worse than us at sustaining drives would be objectively wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) Their defenses are better than ours? Who was arguing otherwise? But anyways: Time per drive: Minnesota: 10th Buffalo: 23rd Denver: 27th Drives per game: Denver 6 Minnesota 19 Buffalo 27 Plays per game: Denver: 18th Minnesota 20th Buffalo 30th Plays per drive: Minnesota: 14th Buffalo 22 Denver: 30th To say these teams are worse than us at sustaining drives would be objectively wrong. Their defenses are better than ours? Who was arguing otherwise? But anyways: Time per drive: Minnesota: 10th Buffalo: 23rd Denver: 27th Drives per game: Denver 6 Minnesota 19 Buffalo 27 Plays per game: Denver: 18th Minnesota 20th Buffalo 30th Plays per drive: Minnesota: 14th Buffalo 22 Denver: 30th To say these teams are worse than us at sustaining drives would be objectively wrong. Why are their defenses better than ours? Denver is objectively worse than us at sustaining drives. Your data supports that. Minnesota is closer. Edited November 2, 2016 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhDozeBills Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 We're 8 games in and the D has had very poor showings in 3 of them. I don't care if one was against Brady and the Pats, you give up 41 points at home and that's just bad. 2 of the bad games the secondary was terrible and one game was awful run D. So, it's a mixed bag so far, but you can't argue they have been inconsistent. They seem to either be really good and perform like a top 5 D or plain awful and look like one of the worst in the league. Guess that makes them just average, and for all the supposed genius D minds we have it's just not good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Why are their defenses better than ours? Denver is objectively worse than us at sustaining drives. Your data supports that. Minnesota is closer. Let's back WAY up. My point: our defense struggles when our offense can't sustain drives. Your point: the two best defenses in the league are successful when their offense is not. Was your point intended to refute mine? Because practically, it does not. And logically, it does not follow. Would you care to refute the notion that the Buffalo defense struggles when the offense strings together three and outs? Yes/No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Let's back WAY up. My point: our defense struggles when our offense can't sustain drives. Your point: the two best defenses in the league are successful when their offense is not. Was your point intended to refute mine? Because practically, it does not. And logically, it does not follow. Would you care to refute the notion that the Buffalo defense struggles when the offense strings together three and outs? Yes/No All defenses feel added pressure when offenses can't sustain drives. You aren't reinventing the wheel here. And seeing as that's the case, it's no excuse that exonerates the defense or Rex Ryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) Let's back WAY up. My point: our defense struggles when our offense can't sustain drives. Your point: the two best defenses in the league are successful when their offense is not. Was your point intended to refute mine? Because practically, it does not. And logically, it does not follow. Would you care to refute the notion that the Buffalo defense struggles when the offense strings together three and outs? Yes/No Dude seriously. Maybe the Miami game backs up your dumb theory somewhat but in the Jets game, we kicked off, they marched down the field and we basically never stopped them. The offense hadn't even touched the ball. No adjustments were made. NE is NE but we sustained a drive before they ever scored, we had the lead when the offense left the field and the defense surrendered it. I do think Rex has improved over last year on a game by game plan but his in game adjustments do not exist. Edited November 2, 2016 by 4merper4mer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 All defenses feel added pressure when offenses can't sustain drives. You aren't reinventing the wheel here. And seeing as that's the case, it's no excuse that exonerates the defense or Rex Ryan. And the best defenses can deal with that pressure and still perform. Denver and Minnesota are both superior D ' s to the Bills. The Bills don't tackle well enough consistently , especially the secondary. The dbs are often out of position to make stops without giving up YAC . That is why they are not an elite defense. That's more on the players than Rex. If they tackled more like say, Seattle does, they'd be much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 When you have a defense that gives up 375 yards in the air to Fitz and a total of almost 500 yards of offense to the 3-5 Jets. That NYJet offense is currently 28th in points for and 22 in yards...not exactly an offensive juggernaut to stop. Now, let's take a look at the Miami game in which this Bills defense allowed an unknown Dolphin RB to rush for 214 yards and meanwhile Talleywhacker had less yards in the air than Tyrod! Fast forward to this past week and Tom Brady bends the defense over for 315 yards passing and 4 passing TD's to Gronk, to Edelman, to 7/11, to Amendola. Oh! WAIT! It was Brady so of course, he is going to decimate the Bills defense as he does that to every team. But Fitz did it too and for more yards! Most Bills fans thought the defense was going to be great this year with Rob Ryan and Ed Reed as new coaches. This game with Shaq Lawson and Marcell Dareus the defense was supposed to be much better. Tied with Denver for most sacks but that doesn't seem to be equating to pressure on the QB as the Bills are currently 14th in defensive hurries. Last year it looked like the only time the defense was really prepared to play was against AFC East teams and now this year it looks just the opposite. At 4-4 overall and1-3 in the division. Houston, Denver, Oakland and KC all currently have better records. This sure wasn't the defense most of us was expecting to see this year and against the Patriots so many of the major problems that plagued last year's squad looked to emerge again with Penalties, play calls coming in late, players confused on the field. This with the defense only missing one starter who was lost week 7. You are such a nattering nabob of negativity. Doug Whaley is a brilliant GM; the Bills are lucky to have him. We need more continuity so the defense can gel under Rex's tutelage. He's a brilliant defensive mind and very much current with today's NFL. We've suffered many injuries that are the fault of no one. It's all the result of injury. Tyrod just needs more time to develop. Same for EJ but he never got a fair shot. This roster is loaded with talent. We're going to end up something like 7-9 or 8-8, but for the life of me, I'm not sure why. We seem like an easy 10 or 11 win team and should be going deep into the playoffs. If it wasn't for that actual "record" thing getting in the way. Everyone gets whipped by the Patriots; it's no big deal when they whip us too. Lee Harvey Oswald did not act alone. Watch out for the chemtrails, and if you think 9/11 was an act of terrorism and not the product of the US govt., you're nuts. I think that covers just about everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 All defenses feel added pressure when offenses can't sustain drives. You aren't reinventing the wheel here. And seeing as that's the case, it's no excuse that exonerates the defense or Rex Ryan. Yes, actually it is. It's the same song and dance since 1999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 The defense is what it is at the moment. I've just updated my tracking thread for this week and we are mediocre in pretty much everything except sacks. We are a middle of the road defense. Is the offense helping? No. Has the defense had some good games? Yes. But overall this defense is average, mediocre and not good enough at this stage of the season. I hope they come on strong down the stretch because we need them to - at the moment this isn't close to the D Rex inherited and that isn't blind hatred - it is just fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) All defenses feel added pressure when offenses can't sustain drives. You aren't reinventing the wheel here. And seeing as that's the case, it's no excuse that exonerates the defense or Rex Ryan. The Bills have been bottom 3-5 in three and out pct since last year. They are particularly bad at it. They put lopsided pressure on the D. There really isn't any comparable team. And the best defenses can deal with that pressure and still perform.This is false. And it's the equivalent of saying TT sucks because his stats don't look like Brady's. Edited November 2, 2016 by The Big Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Their offense finished 26th in the NFL in 2014 in percentage of drives that are 3 and out. The defense in 2014 was very good and better than the one we are currently watching. Good post right back at you. I was about to try and look for that number because my recollection of 2014 was a whole host of 3 and outs that season too. It is just that during 2014 we had some of those on defense too..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Dude seriously. Maybe the Miami game backs up your dumb theory somewhat but in the Jets game, we kicked off, they marched down the field and we basically never stopped them. The offense hadn't even touched the ball. No adjustments were made. NE is NE but we sustained a drive before they ever scored, we had the lead when the offense left the field and the defense surrendered it. I do think Rex has improved over last year on a game by game plan but his in game adjustments do not exist. The defense was bad against NYJ and NE. Yes. Complementary football is not my dumb theory. It's a basic concept that Rex haters choose to ignore. Their offense is currently 27th in the NFL in percentage of drives that are 3 and out. Their offense finished 26th in the NFL in 2014 in percentage of drives that are 3 and out. The defense in 2014 was very good and better than the one we are currently watching. Please stop. Good post. Who are you talking about? And who is arguing that our D is better than theirs? Your assertions here follow no logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Jerky Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) Half way through season, and the Bills D is average, per the stats. So much for a 2nd D coordinator, bringing in his brother and being a D genius. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&tabSeq=2&season=2016&role=OPP&Submit=Go&archive=false&conference=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=TOTAL_YARDS&qualified=false Some of this goes on the O as well, and no passing game, but not all of it. Flame away. EDIT: 1/2 way through the season, I thought, was a good measuring stick: sorry the Pats loss skewed the stats.. geez The Seattle loss will skew them even more... wait... To be honest with all these injuries and suspensions I am surprised we are that good on defense. If we could only have the 2014 health of our players right now we would be top 5. Edited November 2, 2016 by Beef Jerky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 The Bills have been bottom 3-5 in three and out pct since last year. They are particularly bad at it. They put lopsided pressure on the D. There really isn't any comparable team.This is false. And it's the equivalent of saying TT sucks because his stats don't look like Brady's. And like I said, Denver and Minnesota have worse 3 and out percentages this season and still have top 5 defenses. They handle the lopsided pressure just fine, apparently. In fact, Denver crushes this team in drives and plays per game but we crush them in average plays per drive. Do you know why? Their defense gets them the ball back, and ours doesn't. Complimentary football goes both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Who are you talking about? He is talking about the Bills - the 2014 version and this version. Both went 3 and out a lot on offense. One had a good defense the other so far has an inconsistent, average D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) Which is my point that the offense sucking has very little to do with the defenses performance. You are fundamentally wrong and I'm done trying to convince you of that. Edited November 2, 2016 by The Big Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 You are fundamentally wrong about that and I'm done trying to convince you of that. I'm having a hard time understanding how people can't understand that back to back to back to back to back 3 and outs would negatively affect the performance of the defense. If they're out there 15 minutes more than the opposition's defense, they're going to break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I'm having a hard time understanding how people can't understand that back to back to back to back to back 3 and outs would negatively affect the performance of the defense. If they're out there 15 minutes more than the opposition's defense, they're going to break. That's because they aren't good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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