Bills Defense - average after all the changes (corrected)

[The Big Cat]

 

I'm having a hard time understanding how people can't understand that back to back to back to back to back 3 and outs would negatively affect the performance of the defense. If they're out there 15 minutes more than the opposition's defense, they're going to break.

 

Their inability to understand is willful. I'm giving up.

[BringBackOrton]

Their inability to understand is willful. I'm giving up.

Everyone understands what you're saying. No one else thinks it's a valid excuse. There's a key distinction.

[The Big Cat]

 

I'm having a hard time understanding how people can't understand that back to back to back to back to back 3 and outs would negatively affect the performance of the defense. If they're out there 15 minutes more than the opposition's defense, they're going to break.

 

To be clear, this applies to Bills v Miami exclusively, as it pertains to 2016.

 

In that game, the Bills ran 25 plays over seven consecutive drives spanning the halves.

 

Doesn't matter, wins or losses, neither Denver nor Minnesota has a had a run even remotely that bad this year, which is immaterial anyways considering:

1. We're not talking about the Bills D relative to other defenses, we're talking about them relative to the games we win and lose
2. Football is not played in a vacuum, so just comparing outcomes to other teams doesn't consider opponent, injuries, field conditions, the list is virtually endless

But to just digress for a second. Denver did actually have a run as bad as what the Bills put together in Miami. And it came in their loss this week to San Diego. So. You know.

Everyone understands what you're saying. No one else thinks it's a valid excuse. There's a key distinction.

 

Plenty of people do. In, fact, most do. You just happened to have enlisted with the same three muskateers that have been resisting this truth for the last year.

[BringBackOrton]

 

To be clear, this applies to Bills v Miami exclusively, as it pertains to 2016.

 

In that game, the Bills ran 25 plays over seven consecutive drives spanning the halves.

 

Doesn't matter, wins or losses, neither Denver nor Minnesota has a had a run even remotely that bad this year, which is immaterial anyways considering:

1. We're not talking about the Bills D relative to other defenses, we're talking about them relative to the games we win and lose
2. Football is not played in a vacuum, so just comparing outcomes to other teams doesn't consider opponent, injuries, field conditions, the list is virtually endless

But to just digress for a second. Denver did actually have a run as bad as what the Bills put together in Miami. And it came in their loss this week to San Diego. So. You know.

 

Plenty of people do. In, fact, most do. You just happened to have enlisted with the same three muskateers that have been resisting this truth for the last year.

If it's a valid excuse, why doesn't Denver and Minny have bad defenses this year like the Bills?

 

We (you and I) talk about the Bills relative to other teams all the time. You do it every time you cite our 3 and out ranking or virtually any other stat. What you're really trying to say is that when the data doesn't support the theory that having a bad O means you have to have a bad D, you don't look at it. Denver's D is immaterial, because they are great with a worse offense.

 

Football isn't played in a vacuum? That's true, however, that is an excuse that could be made for every argument. Every time you bring up the Oakland loss in 2014, football isn't played in a vacuum. Every heat map of opposing averages, football isn't played in a vacuum.

 

I'd love to see the numbers of the poll that says most folks blame the offense for the defense playing like crap for 2 seasons now. Link.

Edited November 2, 2016 by jmc12290

[MAJBobby]

There are good defenses who have offenses with worse 3 and out percentages. We don't have one of them

No not really we have the worse 3 and Out% In the league, or maybe one team.worse than us

[The Big Cat]

If it's a valid excuse, why doesn't Denver and Minny have bad defenses this year like the Bills?

 

I'd love to see the numbers of the poll that says most folks blame the offense for the defense playing like crap for 2 seasons now. Link.

 

So because it works (kinda, but not really, actually, if you actually cared to watch Minnesota's last two games or Denver's loss against SD) for two teams, it should work for ours? This is such a juvenile argument, it's insane.

 

To your second sentence: nobody is saying that. In fact, I quite clearly stated the opposite.

Edited November 2, 2016 by The Big Cat

[BringBackOrton]

No not really we have the worse 3 and Out% In the league, or maybe one team.worse than us

No, we don't. Pay attention.

[BringBackOrton]

 

So because it works (kinda, but not really, actually, if you actually cared to watch Minnesota's last two games or Denver's loss against SD) for two teams, it should work for ours? This is such a juvenile argument, it's insane.

 

To your second sentence: nobody is saying that. In fact, I quite clearly stated the opposite.

Denver lost a game? The horror. Denver and Minny still have awesome defense that are both much better than the Bills, no matter how much you try to nit pick and deflect.

 

Because other defenses can clearly compensate, why can't ours? Let's talk to our defensive mastermind coach who, if you're keeping score, got destroyed by Jay Ajayi and Ryan Fitzpatrick.

 

You're saying the offense isn't to blame for the defense? What?

Edited November 2, 2016 by jmc12290

[The Big Cat]

Denver lost a game? The horror. Denver and Minny still have awesome defense that are both much better than the Bills, no matter how much you try to nit pick and deflect.

 

Because other defenses can clearly compensate, why can't ours? Let's talk to our defensive mastermind coach who, if you're keeping score, got destroyed by Jay Ajayi and Ryan Fitzpatrick.

 

I'm done with you. You're either a troll or a moron. Either way you're not worth anybody's time.

[Cripple Creek]

I'd love to see the numbers of the poll that says most folks blame the offense for the defense playing like crap for 2 seasons now. Link.

There's plenty of blame to go around. No reason to limit your question to either or.

[MAJBobby]

No, we don't. Pay attention.

It is statistically negligible between Us, Minny, and Denver.

 

And MIA and LA are worse off defense wise.

 

However MIA did get pretty darn good on Defense recently when their offense started extending drives

 

Its like people have never watched or played played a football game to think the constant short drives by offenses will hurt a defense. Specially in NFL when you have what maybe 20 players active on Defense

 

This isnt college were they are dressing 100 and have 5 deep to rotate (not that they play defense anyway).

Edited November 2, 2016 by MAJBobby

[BringBackOrton]

It is statistically negligible between Us, Minny, and Denver.

 

And MIA and LA are worse off defense wise.

 

However MIA did get pretty darn good kn Defense recently when their offenze started extending drives

So we aren't the worst or second worst. Yep.

 

I'm sure if we were, you'd argue the bottom 5 are basically all the same. Because you'd definitely be unbiased.

 

BTW, the Pats are right where the Bills are in 3 and out percentage.

 

 

I'm done with you. You're either a troll or a moron. Either way you're not worth anybody's time.

Calls me juvenile, then resorts to insults. Funny how that always seems to happen.

Edited November 2, 2016 by jmc12290

[MAJBobby]

So we aren't the worst or second worst. Yep.

 

I'm sure if we were, you'd argue the bottom 5 are basically all the same. Because you'd definitely be unbiased.

 

BTW, the Pats are right where the Bills are in 3 and out percentage.

 

Calls me juvenile, then resorts to insults. Funny how that always seems to happen.

Biased how? Because i understand football and short drives on offsense can take a toll on defense, Really?

 

And awesome news Flash the Pats have played a BU QB for 1 game and a half and a 3rd stringer for 2.5 games.

 

Now watch where they go

Edited November 2, 2016 by MAJBobby

[GunnerBill]

 

I'm having a hard time understanding how people can't understand that back to back to back to back to back 3 and outs would negatively affect the performance of the defense. If they're out there 15 minutes more than the opposition's defense, they're going to break.

 

I absolutely do understand that. I just don't think it is an explanation for why the defense has got so much worse under Rex - because the 2014 defense overcame the same issues. Imagine that defense with an O that wasn't going 3 and out a lot..... they could have been Seattle level dominant.

[MAJBobby]

 

I absolutely do understand that. I just don't think it is an explanation for why the defense has got so much worse under Rex - because the 2014 defense overcame the same issues. Imagine that defense with an O that wasn't going 3 and out a lot..... they could have been Seattle level dominant.

So now it is 2016.

 

1. Every player is 2 years older (AVG Career 3ish years)

2. Mario gone (was a top end talent when heart in it, was for JS not for Rex)

3. AW healthy

4. Dareus Healthy and not suspended

5. Searcy was better than Meeks

 

When you look at it is it really that hard.to understand.

Edited November 2, 2016 by MAJBobby

[The Big Cat]

 

I absolutely do understand that. I just don't think it is an explanation for why the defense has got so much worse under Rex - because the 2014 defense overcame the same issues. Imagine that defense with an O that wasn't going 3 and out a lot..... they could have been Seattle level dominant.

 

1. The defense hasn't been bad this year. They had two poor performances to which this concept doesn't apply (NYJ & NE)
2. The 2014 defense did not have to overcome the same issues. The offense that year did not string together quick drives like they did a lot last year and like they did to their detriment against Miami
3. This is a serious question: Will there come a time when we can start considering 2014 the exception and not the expectation?

Edited November 2, 2016 by The Big Cat

[MAJBobby]

 

 

• The defense hasn't been bad this year. They had two poor performances to which this concept doesn't apply (NYJ & NE)
• The 2014 defense did not have to overcome the same issues. The offense that year did not string together quick drives like they did a lot last year and like they did to their detriment against Miami
• This is a serious question: Will there come a time when we can start considering 2014 the exception and not the expectation?

No there wont be, because you know before 2014 we also were fielding dominant defenses. The defense regressed in 2015 from years of dominant defense.

 

Oooo wait

[GunnerBill]

So now it is 2016.

 

1. Every player is 2 years older (AVG Career 3ish years)

2. Mario gone (was a top end talent when heart in it, was for JS not for Rex)

3. AW healthy

4. Dareus Healthy and not suspended

5. Searcy was better than Meeks

 

When you look at it is it really that hard.to understand.

 

You make as many excuses for Rex as the people you object to make for Tyrod.

 

Rex has overseen defences here that are mediocre and cannot overcome any adversity despite inheriting one that was bordering on elite and did overcome adversity. You can throw as many excuses as you want at the wall. If Rex Ryan does not get this defense back on he right track between now and January the Bills will finish worse than .500 and he will be done for good as an NFL Head Coach. Simple as that.

[MAJBobby]

 

You make as many excuses for Rex as the people you object to make for Tyrod.

 

Rex has overseen defences here that are mediocre and cannot overcome any adversity despite inheriting one that was bordering on elite and did overcome adversity. You can throw as many excuses as you want at the wall. If Rex Ryan does not get this defense back on he right track between now and January the Bills will finish worse than .500 and he will be done for good as an NFL Head Coach. Simple as that.

No not making excuses for Rex IMO he should be fired (not just because of defense) (ooo that hurts right just cant just deflect). That still does NOT change the fact that ineffective offenses put added stress on a defense.

 

Never mentioned Tyrod since i got back in this thread.i might have earlier, but not since i got back in.

 

I am not defending Rex or defense i am defending the point (accurate on at that) difference between me and the church of Tyrod

Edited November 2, 2016 by MAJBobby

[BringBackOrton]

Biased how? Because i understand football and short drives on offsense can take a toll on defense, Really?

 

And awesome news Flash the Pats have played a BU QB for 1 game and a half and a 3rd stringer for 2.5 games.

 

Now watch where they go

That's not what I'm referring to homie.

 

Pats have lost 1 game with a QB carousel.