Marquise Goodwin Listed on SI's 50 Fittest List

[mrags]

Again, production vs. talent. You clearly do not understand the distinction.

i already explained that I do. That neither of them have any actual talent. Again, besides the fact that neither of them are talentless, they both suck production wise. Which happens to be the only thing in sports that can be compared.

[FireChan]

i already explained that I do. That neither of them have any actual talent. Again, besides the fact that neither of them are talentless, they both suck production wise. Which happens to be the only thing in sports that can be compared.

Wait what?

 

You said he doesn't have talent because he's only caught 20 balls. How is that not confusing talent for production?

 

Goodwin is 1 billion times the football talent of Graham. Now if that talent is irrelevant because he can't stay on the field (which is fair) is a completely different argument from being "talentless." Go watch tape of the second Jets game from 2013, where our starting WR's were Graham and Goodwin and tell me both are equally "talentless." If you still hold that position, you just don't understand football.

 

Goodwin is more frustrating because if he actually cared enough to stay healthy, he could be much more productive based on his talent. Graham was healthy, he just wasn't good. Neither were very productive for very different reasons, but not because they both were talentless. Sorry.

Edited June 10, 2016 by FireChan

[mrags]

Wait what?

 

You said he doesn't have talent because he's only caught 20 balls. How is that not confusing talent for production?

 

Goodwin is 1 billion times the football talent of Graham. Now if that talent is irrelevant because he can't stay on the field (which is fair) is a completely different argument from being "talentless." Go watch tape of the second Jets game from 2013, where our starting WR's were Graham and Goodwin and tell me both are equally "talentless." If you still hold that position, you just don't understand football.

 

Goodwin is more frustrating because if he actually cared enough to stay healthy, he could be much more productive based on his talent. Graham was healthy, he just wasn't good. Neither were very productive for very different reasons, but not because they both were talentless. Sorry.

if you think Goodwin has talent you don't understand football.

 

Sorry, I have to explain this to you again like your 12. I said that Glass and Graham both equally have no talent. However... The only way to judge them is based on production. Which is the only real way to judge any sports athlete ever. Neither is good. Graham however had more than double the production as Goodwin which shows how useless Goodwin can be.

 

It's funny that you stick up for Goodwin so much. Yet you hold tight in the fact that Graham sucks yet he has triple the receptions and yards as Goodwin.

 

Based on your rationale however, you should be a huge supporter of Manziel, EJ, Losman, Tebow, Maybin, etc...

 

All those players had a ton of talent yet most people tho I they suck. Why??? Because talent is as useless as a poopie flavored lollipop. It means absolutely nothing unless it can be backed up by production.

[26CornerBlitz]

If the pay was equal, Marquise Goodwin would choose track and field over football. The Buffalo Bills wide receiver was asked in a live Facebook chat event with Emily Kaplan of MMQB which sport he'd choose if the money was the same. It didn't take long for Goodwin to answer with track and field.

[FireChan]

if you think Goodwin has talent you don't understand football.

 

Sorry, I have to explain this to you again like your 12. I said that Glass and Graham both equally have no talent. However... The only way to judge them is based on production. Which is the only real way to judge any sports athlete ever. Neither is good. Graham however had more than double the production as Goodwin which shows how useless Goodwin can be.

 

It's funny that you stick up for Goodwin so much. Yet you hold tight in the fact that Graham sucks yet he has triple the receptions and yards as Goodwin.

 

Based on your rationale however, you should be a huge supporter of Manziel, EJ, Losman, Tebow, Maybin, etc...

 

All those players had a ton of talent yet most people tho I they suck. Why??? Because talent is as useless as a poopie flavored lollipop. It means absolutely nothing unless it can be backed up by production.

The only way to judge them is based on production.

 

Dead wrong. This is getting sad. You're trying to tell me you can't judge a WR on their hands, ability to get separation, route running, etc etc.

 

I don't know football? You're off the reservation here. You're exposing yourself. Pack it in.

 

And if you think I'm sticking up for either of them, you aren't paying attention. You just lack a basic understanding, and I'm trying to educate you.

Edited June 10, 2016 by FireChan

[KDIGGZ]

These are my issues with Glass:

1. If he gets hit he gets hurt. Hes completely useless if you can't count on him to be on the field.

2. When he got drafted he said he was done with track. Come to find out he has been doing track specific workouts the entire time he's been in the league instead of possibly bulking up a bit so he can actually take a hit and earn his paycheck.

3. The Bills drafted him based on his combine numbers. The combine is a tool to use in addition to the film and stats. Not as a reason to draft someone.

4. When we drafted him I laughed and said there we go drafting another track guy hoping he can be turn into a football player. That almost never works. I was ridiculed by people that thought they knew better. And I love to say I told you so

[mrags]

The only way to judge them is based on production.

 

Dead wrong. This is getting sad. You're trying to tell me you can't judge a WR on their hands, ability to get separation, route running, etc etc.

 

I don't know football? You're off the reservation here. You're exposing yourself. Pack it in.

 

And if you think I'm sticking up for either of them, you aren't paying attention. You just lack a basic understanding, and I'm trying to educate you.

yeah. I don't need your education. I'm just in awe of your knowledge. Your always so incredibly insightful.

 

I'm done here. Your trying to argue about a WR that has said he would rather run track than play football. Can't stay on the field for more than 2 games a season and has a total of 20 receptions in 3 seasons. regardless of anything you say he's useless in a football uninform and pads.

 

I get your argument that production and talent are different. Again for the 800th time, I inderstamd that. You apparently just want to keep arguing that he actually has talent. Which is in no way measurable.

 

Tell me genius, what makes him talented? How can you actually measure/judge the talent of his "hands, route running, ability to get separation, Etc" if he's only caught 20 passes? How can you actually see any of his "talent" if he can't stay on the field?

 

Again, your argument could make sense if there was something to base it on. It's a funny thing about measurable production. They kind of go hand in hand with talent. If someone usually sucks in the talent field they usually don't have any production and vice versa. Which is not a guarantee which is why you have guys like Peyton Hillis for 1 season. But it's not an exact science.

 

You'd get much more respect out of me if you just admitted you have a thing for Goodwin. You like his speed. You appreciate the way he takes care of his sister. You are a fan of his work ethic for track, Etc. instead you hold onto this idea that he has talent which is in fact impossible to prove and based on his production, impossible to back up.

Edited June 10, 2016 by mrags

[FireChan]

yeah. I don't need your education. I'm just in awe of your knowledge. Your always so incredibly insightful.

 

I'm done here. Your trying to argue about a WR that has said he would rather run track than play football. Can't stay on the field for more than 2 games a season and has a total of 20 receptions in 3 seasons. regardless of anything you say he's useless in a football uninform and pads.

 

I get your argument that production and talent are different. Again for the 800th time, I inderstamd that. You apparently just want to keep arguing that he actually has talent. Which is in no way measurable.

 

Tell me genius, what makes him talented? How can you actually measure/judge the talent of his "hands, route running, ability to get separation, Etc" if he's only caught 20 passes? How can you actually see any of his "talent" if he can't stay on the field?

 

Again, your argument could make sense if there was something to base it on. It's a funny thing about measurable production. They kind of go hand in hand with talent. If someone usually sucks in the talent field they usually don't have any production and vice versa. Which is not a guarantee which is why you have guys like Peyton Hillis for 1 season. But it's not an exact science.

 

You'd get much more respect out of me if you just admitted you have a thing for Goodwin. You like his speed. You appreciate the way he takes care of his sister. You are a fan of his work ethic for track, Etc. instead you hold onto this idea that he has talent which is in fact impossible to prove and based on his production, impossible to back up.

How many games did he play in 2013? I watched him in all of them. You clearly did not.

 

Did you know that players both run routes and get separation, even without having to catch the ball? You continue to claim you "understand," when you clearly do not. His talent is not impossible to back up. You only need to use your eyes instead of basing your player "evaluation" by pouring over the stat sheet. Do you think that's how they do it in the NFL? Do you think guys get drafted based on exclusively how many catches or yards they have?

 

Finally, I hate Goodwin. I think he's screwed the Bills for years by not taking football seriously. I think he likes getting his check and following his Olympic dream. I think if he put more effort into being a good football player, he could be both a better player and stay healthier/on the field more. None of this invalidates him being more talented than Graham.

Edited June 10, 2016 by FireChan

[mrags]

How many games did he play in 2013? I watched him in all of them. You clearly did not.

 

Did you know that players both run routes and get separation, even without having to catch the ball? You continue to claim you "understand," when you clearly do not. His talent is not impossible to back up. You only need to use your eyes instead of basing your player "evaluation" by pouring over the stat sheet. Do you think that's how they do it in the NFL? Do you think guys get drafted based on exclusively how many catches or yards they have?

 

Finally, I hate Goodwin. I think he's screwed the Bills for years by not taking football seriously. I think he likes getting his check and following his Olympic dream. I think if he put more effort into being a good football player, he could be both a better player and stay healthier/on the field more. None of this invalidates him being more talented than Graham.

there is the issue right there. You seem to think that just because he gets separation or or runs routes he has talent. It's a false. You think that because he was able to do these things in 10 games that he's actually got talent. Here's more news for the missinformed. Just because he was able to do these things doesn't mean he's actually good at them. It takes 2 teams, 2 people to base that argument on. Who was he up against? As a 2nd, 3rd, most likely 4th receiver? Was he able to do these incredible offensive feats against Richard Sherman? Chances are defenders covering him were no name nobodies (much like he is) or guys like Ron Brooks at best. But it wouldn't expect you to admit to that because you want to hold onto this notion that he was very good at What he did and was extremely talented.

 

Just a serious question, have you ever played in any sport at all in your life? Because anyone that has would know it's not just about how good you are or aren't, it's also about who you are facing as an opponent. Even the fastest kid in the special Olympics has talent for what he does. And he still wins and gets his medal but that doesn't mean he's actually fast. Your surroundings have a lot to do with it.

 

On to your point about hating Goodwin and wishing he took football seriously. I disagree. I believe that no matter what he would never be a good football player. I don't even think he could ever be average. He can never change his height or weight enough to make a difference in his game.

[FireChan]

there is the issue right there. You seem to think that just because he gets separation or or runs routes he has talent. It's a false. You think that because he was able to do these things in 10 games that he's actually got talent. Here's more news for the missinformed. Just because he was able to do these things doesn't mean he's actually good at them. It takes 2 teams, 2 people to base that argument on. Who was he up against? As a 2nd, 3rd, most likely 4th receiver? Was he able to do these incredible offensive feats against Richard Sherman? Chances are defenders covering him were no name nobodies (much like he is) or guys like Ron Brooks at best. But it wouldn't expect you to admit to that because you want to hold onto this notion that he was very good at What he did and was extremely talented.

 

Just a serious question, have you ever played in any sport at all in your life? Because anyone that has would know it's not just about how good you are or aren't, it's also about who you are facing as an opponent. Even the fastest kid in the special Olympics has talent for what he does. And he still wins and gets his medal but that doesn't mean he's actually fast. Your surroundings have a lot to do with it.

 

On to your point about hating Goodwin and wishing he took football seriously. I disagree. I believe that no matter what he would never be a good football player. I don't even think he could ever be average. He can never change his height or weight enough to make a difference in his game.

Now you've completely spun off the planet. Goodwin hasn't burned Richard Sherman (not that he's had the chance), so he's not talented. #3 WR's that beat #3 CB's aren't talented and are basically useless.

 

These are fiery takes my man.

 

BTW Antonio Brown is ~5'10" 180 lbs, and he's the best WR in football. Not sure he needs to change his height/weight to make a difference.

Edited June 10, 2016 by FireChan

[mrags]

Now you've completely spun off the planet. Goodwin hasn't burned Richard Sherman (not that he's had the chance), so he's not talented. #3 WR's that beat #3 CB's aren't talented and are basically useless.

 

These are fiery takes my man.

 

BTW Antonio Brown is ~5'10" 180 lbs, and he's the best WR in football. Not sure he needs to change his height/weight to make a difference.

im done here. I think your an idiot and have no desire to engage in talk about football with you ever again. It's clear you are holding onto this argument because you feel you have more football knowledge than others and it's just plain false.

 

Again, You are arguing about a wr that has stated he'd rather run track than play football and there's a good chance he will be out of the league within 2 years.

 

But just keep thinking your right about this. Despite NFL teams being unable to get anything out of him and almost everyone else here on this message board completely thinking he's useless.

 

And fwiw, talent means nothing if you can't produce. All it does is take a roster spot away from another player that could do the exact same thing as a useless decoy, and catch more than 7 footballs a year.

[eball]

After today I'm done with Goodwin from a Bills perspective. He basically told reporters that he only played football rather than staying in track so he could make more money, faster. Track is his love and that's what he wants to do. He also shat on Bills (and football) fans because they're not as "positive" as track fans. Which is funny, because I didn't know there were "track fans."

 

Enjoy the Olympics, Goodwin. Bring home the gold.

[FireChan]

im done here. I think your an idiot and have no desire to engage in talk about football with you ever again. It's clear you are holding onto this argument because you feel you have more football knowledge than others and it's just plain false.

 

Again, You are arguing about a wr that has stated he'd rather run track than play football and there's a good chance he will be out of the league within 2 years.

 

But just keep thinking your right about this. Despite NFL teams being unable to get anything out of him and almost everyone else here on this message board completely thinking he's useless.

 

And fwiw, talent means nothing if you can't produce. All it does is take a roster spot away from another player that could do the exact same thing as a useless decoy, and catch more than 7 footballs a year.

I 100% agree with the bolded. But you haven't been arguing that.

 

I never said Goodwin will be a great pro. Or that his talent means that he's worth a roster spot. Or that he's gonna turn it around. My only argument was that he's more talented than Graham, a guy who has put up better numbers.

 

At the end of the day, the best ability is availability. But there's a reason that Goodwin is on an NFL roster today and Graham isn't, even though he's been outproduced. I'd love to hear your explanation for that.

[boyst]

 

If the pay was equal, Marquise Goodwin would choose track and field over football. The Buffalo Bills wide receiver was asked in a live Facebook chat event with Emily Kaplan of MMQB which sport he'd choose if the money was the same. It didn't take long for Goodwin to answer with track and field.

I think most would on injury factor alone. I know I would

[Kelly the Dog]

I think most would on injury factor alone. I know I would

Not to mention that he is among the best in the world at his position in track and maybe the four or fifth best on his team in football. Probably not in the top 200.

[mrags]

I 100% agree with the bolded. But you haven't been arguing that.

 

I never said Goodwin will be a great pro. Or that his talent means that he's worth a roster spot. Or that he's gonna turn it around. My only argument was that he's more talented than Graham, a guy who has put up better numbers.

 

At the end of the day, the best ability is availability. But there's a reason that Goodwin is on an NFL roster today and Graham isn't, even though he's been outproduced. I'd love to hear your explanation for that.

The explanation is that it's not possible to cut an injured player. Or maybe because as someone mentioned (maybe uiu I have no idea) that it would make the Bills look pretty stupid to be cutting a player that's trying to win a medal and help his country in the Olympics. Or maybe it's that we have some bad WRs at this point and they need as many bodies as possible. Or maybe it's because some idiot coach or GM actually thinks they can get something out of his "talent".

 

One thing I will agree with is the fact he actually does have talent. He's fast. That's all I'll give him credit for. IMO he had nothing else. Unfortunately for you, I will never be proven otherwise because he'll be out of the league soon and will have never shown anything.

[FireChan]

The explanation is that it's not possible to cut an injured player. Or maybe because as someone mentioned (maybe uiu I have no idea) that it would make the Bills look pretty stupid to be cutting a player that's trying to win a medal and help his country in the Olympics. Or maybe it's that we have some bad WRs at this point and they need as many bodies as possible. Or maybe it's because some idiot coach or GM actually thinks they can get something out of his "talent".

 

One thing I will agree with is the fact he actually does have talent. He's fast. That's all I'll give him credit for. IMO he had nothing else. Unfortunately for you, I will never be proven otherwise because he'll be out of the league soon and will have never shown anything.

He's not injured. PR is possible, but probably unlikely. Other teams have bad WR's and Graham is still MIA. Why don't any idiots think they can get something out of Graham?

 

You will never be proven otherwise as long as you never watch the games. That's true. Kind of an ostrich head-in-the-sand situation, not something I'd be really proud of, personally.

[boyst]

Not to mention that he is among the best in the world at his position in track and maybe the four or fifth best on his team in football. Probably not in the top 200.

no. Not best in track. Best in field

Not to mention that he is among the best in the world at his position in track and maybe the four or fifth best on his team in football. Probably not in the top 200.

no. Not best in track. Best in field

[mrags]

He's not injured. PR is possible, but probably unlikely. Other teams have bad WR's and Graham is still MIA. Why don't any idiots think they can get something out of Graham?

 

You will never be proven otherwise as long as you never watch the games. That's true. Kind of an ostrich head-in-the-sand situation, not something I'd be really proud of, personally.

he has been injured the majority of the last 2 years. IR is possible but only when a player is actually injured. He would be IRd more if his injuries were more than a few weeks at a time but they aren't. One week he tweaks a hammy, the next it's his hand, etc. The next injury will be a stubbed toe from getting out of the shower. Don't worry it's coming for your lover boy. When he's not injured he sucks.

 

Other idiots have tried to get something out of Graham. He played for the Saints last year. The same idiots that thought they could get something out of CJ Spiller. That worked out well for them. The other idiot coach to take a shot on Graham is Ryan with the Jets. The same idiot thinking he can actually get anything out of Goodwon. Or you can turn to the GM in Whaley that drafted Him and still refuses (much like you) to give in to the fact that he's a talentless scrub that wouldnt make it on almost any other team in the league.

 

You seem to think I like Graham. Which is understandable considering I'm comparing him to Goodwin. The problem that you have and are too stupid to realize is that I'm not comparing them to prove that one is better than the other. It's to compare them in that they both are useless football players that have no talent. You apparently feel that Goodwin does have talent when Graham doesn't. It's funny that you say Goodwin has talent but neither are any good and they have the exact same talent. To run in a straight line and draw coverage from a real WR on the other side of the field. Which I really don't care about either. They both suck. Neither should be in the league. But the fact remains that as bad and talentless you think Graham is, which I'm not denying; you don't think Goodwin is just as talentless. The fact is, as bad as Graham is, he still outperforms Goodwin by double the statistics. Which as I keep stating is the only factual evidence to actually measure a players worth.

 

In the end, I will be proven right by the fact that they will both be out of the league within a few years. I'll go on record and state that Goodwin will not have more than 120 receptions, 1,000 yards, and 12 TDs for his entire career. That's a season for a good WR. I'll bet you a case of beer that Goodwin doesn't post these numbers for the rest of his days.

 

If you really want to get frisky I'll double down and state that Graham will have a more productive career than Goodwin. And I personally don't think Graham plays another down in the league.

[FireChan]

he has been injured the majority of the last 2 years. IR is possible but only when a player is actually injured. He would be IRd more if his injuries were more than a few weeks at a time but they aren't. One week he tweaks a hammy, the next it's his hand, etc. The next injury will be a stubbed toe from getting out of the shower. Don't worry it's coming for your lover boy. When he's not injured he sucks.

 

Other idiots have tried to get something out of Graham. He played for the Saints last year. The same idiots that thought they could get something out of CJ Spiller. That worked out well for them. The other idiot coach to take a shot on Graham is Ryan with the Jets. The same idiot thinking he can actually get anything out of Goodwon. Or you can turn to the GM in Whaley that drafted Him and still refuses (much like you) to give in to the fact that he's a talentless scrub that wouldnt make it on almost any other team in the league.

 

You seem to think I like Graham. Which is understandable considering I'm comparing him to Goodwin. The problem that you have and are too stupid to realize is that I'm not comparing them to prove that one is better than the other. It's to compare them in that they both are useless football players that have no talent. You apparently feel that Goodwin does have talent when Graham doesn't. It's funny that you say Goodwin has talent but neither are any good and they have the exact same talent. To run in a straight line and draw coverage from a real WR on the other side of the field. Which I really don't care about either. They both suck. Neither should be in the league. But the fact remains that as bad and talentless you think Graham is, which I'm not denying; you don't think Goodwin is just as talentless. The fact is, as bad as Graham is, he still outperforms Goodwin by double the statistics. Which as I keep stating is the only factual evidence to actually measure a players worth.

 

In the end, I will be proven right by the fact that they will both be out of the league within a few years. I'll go on record and state that Goodwin will not have more than 120 receptions, 1,000 yards, and 12 TDs for his entire career. That's a season for a good WR. I'll bet you a case of beer that Goodwin doesn't post these numbers for the rest of his days.

 

If you really want to get frisky I'll double down and state that Graham will have a more productive career than Goodwin. And I personally don't think Graham plays another down in the league.

Why would I bet this when I agree with it? Are you even reading what I'm writing?

 

I skipped the rest of your post. I assume it just talked about stats and catches and other nonsense I've already addressed. You clearly aren't listening.

Edited June 10, 2016 by FireChan