26CornerBlitz Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Multiple tv spots had already been filmed, marketing materials created, basically a full blown ad campaign which isn't cheap. The exact department that Kim works in. It could have been avoided with better communication. It was in Whaley's power to do it but they deserved more of a heads up like hey Fred is on the bubble so don't spend all of that money on an ad campaign. In fact I think that the opposite was said (that he was safe). I wouldn't want to be on that conference call with m&t the day Fred was cut. Kim and Russ were put in a pretty bad spot. I think it was a last minute call by Whaley and it was made for the right football reasons but that doesn't mean that it was the right thing to do or the right way to go about doing it Karlos emerged in camp after that was planned. So was Whaley supposed to keep Fred around just because of a sponsor commercial campaign? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st&ten Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Will it's also possible that Whaley & his agent want to move slowly so that they can test the waters & see if other organizations are interested. Once his contract is up, he's just like a free agent player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 They didn't know at all that karlos was going to blow them away the way he did. They thought he was just going to be a ST player his first year. When he surpassed Fred on the depth chart late in training camp that is when he became expendable because he was now #3 and didn't play ST so he wasn't going to be active some games. That was a late occurring change that was not predictable. Why do you guys miss the point that it wasn't what he did, but how he did it? Very few people are debating the football rationale. What's being pointed out is that Whaley made the President and co-owner look stupid in front of their clients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Will it's also possible that Whaley & his agent want to move slowly so that they can test the waters & see if other organizations are interested. Once his contract is up, he's just like a free agent player. He will go to Cleveland with the #1 pick and build a playoff team with the Bills looking like fools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Karlos emerged in camp after that was planned. So was Whaley supposed to keep Fred around just because of a sponsor commercial campaign? He should have gone to the owners and said this kid is emerging Fred might lose his spot. Then the Pegula's would have probably said too bad keep Fred. I think Whaley waited until the last moment on purpose so nobody could say no. Fred was more to this team and this city than a RB so I understand both sides. It was the break down in communication that was the big issue here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Why do you guys miss the point that it wasn't what he did, but how he did it? Very few people are debating the football rationale. What's being pointed out is that Whaley made the President and co-owner look stupid in front of their clients. Its the same thing. if he couldn't have foreseen it, he couldn't have warned them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Why do you guys miss the point that it wasn't what he did, but how he did it? Very few people are debating the football rationale. What's being pointed out is that Whaley made the President and co-owner look stupid in front of their clients. What was he supposed to do? Keep Fred to make M&T happy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonabb Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 He should have gone to the owners and said this kid is emerging Fred might lose his spot. Then the Pegula's would have probably said too bad keep Fred. I think Whaley waited until the last moment on purpose so nobody could say no. Fred was more to this team and this city than a RB so I understand both sides. It was the break down in communication that was the big issue here I loved the guy as a player and a human being, the only player I would say I put any stock into as a person. He meant nothing to the city though. I mean let's not put him up on the cross. I went to bed every night not worrying about what this city would do if Fred left. I mean, have we been swallowed by the lake yet? Part of the narrative to suggest Whaley is in trouble centers on this overstatement of Fred's value outside the white lines. If Whaley is the GM and has to report every single move to everyone above him, he should move on and find the autonomy a GM deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobu Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 I loved the guy as a player and a human being, the only player I would say I put any stock into as a person. He meant nothing to the city though. I mean let's not put him up on the cross. I went to bed every night not worrying about what this city would do if Fred left. I mean, have we been swallowed by the lake yet? Part of the narrative to suggest Whaley is in trouble centers on this overstatement of Fred's value outside the white lines. If Whaley is the GM and has to report every single move to everyone above him, he should move on and find the autonomy a GM deserves. So true. I sure as hell don't like being micromanaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 He will go to Cleveland with the #1 pick and build a playoff team with the Bills looking like fools. Cleveland will not be in the playoffs for about 10 years. What was he supposed to do? Keep Fred to make M&T happy? he was supposed to be smart enough to cut fred and get a key sponsor and other bills brass informed/prepared BEFORE it became public. this whole going "rogue" suggests otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 The Pegula's want to win but at the end of the day they would rather look like the good guys and maintain strong relationships with sponsors and the community. Keep in mind this is the family business. The fracking stuff paid for it but that is being sold off and the Bills and Sabres will be their legacy. Their kids will be the owners soon and everything they are doing is to set them up for the future. They would much rather build these strong relationships than have 1 good winning season I loved the guy as a player and a human being, the only player I would say I put any stock into as a person. He meant nothing to the city though. I mean let's not put him up on the cross. I went to bed every night not worrying about what this city would do if Fred left. I mean, have we been swallowed by the lake yet? Part of the narrative to suggest Whaley is in trouble centers on this overstatement of Fred's value outside the white lines. If Whaley is the GM and has to report every single move to everyone above him, he should move on and find the autonomy a GM deserves. Fred basically WAS the Bills. He was the one on every billboard and doing all of the appearances. He meant more to the city as a personality than he did as a player. But it was like that because of his heart and determination on the field. Some guys just have "it" and on a team with no QB he was our it player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 In a vacuum they should keep Whaley. Had some great draft picks. Theoretically if that continues, you never have to worry again. However, i feel like he will be gone, barring a 10-6 playoff run. Something still stinks out of OBD. All the 'leaks' and strange things coming from OBD wasnt just a Marrone thing. We still hear little purposefully placed snippets in the media from there such as "Whaley went rogue", "Manuel may win the starting position", and even this new one about the extension. Folks will disagree but I feel like it is Brandon. In which case you would have to assume Whaley will be the one to go as Brandon is pretty much an immovable object at this point with the Sabres and Bills thing. If its Rex... he is also not going anywhere with his deal, signs like speaking at the WJC presser, etc. Whaley is on the weakest footing, unfortunately. I tend to agree. I think I that Whaley is OK - nothing more, nothing less. I continue to like the Watkins pick, and he certainly made a good trade for McCoy. Plaudits for that. I think Rex is gonna get the credit for Taylor, though, not Whaley. I think the same goes for Incognito, but that's just a hunch. The bottom line: Whaley has been running the show for basically three seasons now, and was second in command for a couple of seasons before that. Unless they make the playoffs (doubtful, sadly), he'll have five non-playoff years on his resume. Plus he seems to have issues with others in power there. The Fred thing was a real thing, I think. Freddie has played pretty well too when called upon (excellent blocking; 23 catches on 25 targets). I've said all along that letting him "play out his contract" doesn't bode well for him staying. If teams want someone, they lock them up. They don't give them a chance to walk (this is of course presuming that DW would readily sign now if offered an extension, which I think he would). I'm not passing judgement on him. I just think that on balance, the signs point to his exit. I could very well be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 The Pegula's want to win but at the end of the day they would rather look like the good guys and maintain strong relationships with sponsors and the community. Keep in mind this is the family business. The fracking stuff paid for it but that is being sold off and the Bills and Sabres will be their legacy. Their kids will be the owners soon and everything they are doing is to set them up for the future. They would much rather build these strong relationships than have 1 good winning season If he indeed made a major blunder, which is highly arguable, it seems to be more than an oversight versus a diabolical going around the back or "going rogue" incident. The worst thing he did is not tell a non-football guy about a football move. That issue can be solved with a simple "Hey, next time it's a huge unexpected cut like this with a signature player, let us know." Done deal. It's not sinister even if he did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boolay Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 When your right your right! And when you're wrong you're wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Cleveland will not be in the playoffs for about 10 years. he was supposed to be smart enough to cut fred and get a key sponsor and other bills brass informed/prepared BEFORE it became public. this whole going "rogue" suggests otherwise. Seems like a very simple concept for someone who works in a large organiZation. Ironically, Jimmy Haslam would have probably fired him on the spot for a move like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 If he indeed made a major blunder, which is highly arguable, it seems to be more than an oversight versus a diabolical going around the back or "going rogue" incident. The worst thing he did is not tell a non-football guy about a football move. That issue can be solved with a simple "Hey, next time it's a huge unexpected cut like this with a signature player, let us know." Done deal. It's not sinister even if he did it. i'm going the other way.....whaley knew cutting fred wasn't going to go over well, it was already blocked once in march. whaley knows he's in trouble, as evidenced by the Pegula's trying to hire Polian. this is whaley saying, "f" it, if i'm going down, i'm going down swinging my way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 He should have gone to the owners and said this kid is emerging Fred might lose his spot. Then the Pegula's would have probably said too bad keep Fred. I think Whaley waited until the last moment on purpose so nobody could say no. Fred was more to this team and this city than a RB so I understand both sides. It was the break down in communication that was the big issue here There's no way I'd want to be a GM under those conditions. It's a stupid way to run a football team if that's what is in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 There's no way I'd want to be a GM under those conditions. It's a stupid way to run a football team if that's what is in place. He's free to shop his services to Jimmy Haslam or Jerry Jones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Why do you guys miss the point that it wasn't what he did, but how he did it? Very few people are debating the football rationale. What's being pointed out is that Whaley made the President and co-owner look stupid in front of their clients. In the paraphrased words of Pegula himself "We're here to win Championships. If I want more money, I'll drill another well." Pegula and Brandon should (and most likely do) care more about winning than pleasing sponsors. If this team wins, theyll have plenty of sponsors with or without M&T. The Pegula's want to win but at the end of the day they would rather look like the good guys and maintain strong relationships with sponsors and the community. Keep in mind this is the family business. The fracking stuff paid for it but that is being sold off and the Bills and Sabres will be their legacy. Their kids will be the owners soon and everything they are doing is to set them up for the future. They would much rather build these strong relationships than have 1 good winning season I dont think that is true at all. Winning IS the legacy. No one looks back and says "We were 4-12, but man those sponsors were awesome". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billykaykay Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 anyone besides us on this board? HA i think we saw a few differences in opinion between Rex and Whaley. From an outsides perspective it appeared as if Whaley attempted to flex his muscle once or twice with the EJ vs Cassel situation. Interesting to see if there is any fall out over this or any other moves. Has there ever been any evidence of this EJ/Cassel thing or has it just been speculation by the Bflo News sportswriters ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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