Refugee Crisis in Europe

[meazza]

Ah, the lie of cultural relativism. You've bought it hook line and sinker. Sucker. Take a look at the pew polls taken a few years back in "moderate " Muslim countries. Check the attitudes toward women, gays and other topics like apostasy. Then come back and tell me how their culture is equivalent to mine. Sorry, not buying it.

It once was, that's why many left. Don't blame it on their culture, blame it on extreme elements gathering power.

 

Somewhat like what will happen in Europe when the far right gets into power.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

It once was, that's why many left. Don't blame it on their culture, blame it on extreme elements gathering power.

 

Somewhat like what will happen in Europe when the far right gets into power.

Define "once."

[meazza]

Define "once."

 

Well Tunisia still is but there is growing terrorism.

 

As an example.

Edited February 14, 2017 by meazza

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

Well Tunisia still is but there is growing terrorism.

 

As an example.

 

Is Tunisia as open and inclusive a society as any western democracy? Does it have freedom of religion, equal rights for women (including the ability to choose to not wear the veil despite their husbands' wishes)? Does it have freedom of speech?

[Chef Jim]

 

Is Tunisia as open and inclusive a society as any western democracy? Does it have freedom of religion, equal rights for women (including the ability to choose to not wear the veil despite their husbands' wishes)? Does it have freedom of speech?

And this is the issue with our current immigration situation. Assimilation or lack thereof. Previous waves of immigrants, while bringing some of their best cultures with them like music and food, wanted to become American in every way. And for a few decades now assimilation is almost nonexistent. Simple example is Lowes or Home Depot. All signage, here in CA anyway, is in English and Spanish. I'm sorry I have a major problem if you can't learn simple worlds like doors, windows and bathroom. When I moved to CA over 30 years ago to work in restaurants I had to learn Spanish because they weren't learning English. And they weren't learning it because they didn't have to. I actually enjoyed learning a second language.

[boyst]

And this is the issue with our current immigration situation. Assimilation or lack thereof. Previous waves of immigrants, while bringing some of their best cultures with them like music and food, wanted to become American in every way. And for a few decades now assimilation is almost nonexistent. Simple example is Lowes or Home Depot. All signage, here in CA anyway, is in English and Spanish. I'm sorry I have a major problem if you can't learn simple worlds like doors, windows and bathroom. When I moved to CA over 30 years ago to work in restaurants I had to learn Spanish because they weren't learning English. And they weren't learning it because they didn't have to. I actually enjoyed learning a second language.

when you're Hispanic and in California everywhere is a toilet. Get your money. Get your freedoms. Than move back to mexico courtesy of ICE.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

And this is the issue with our current immigration situation. Assimilation or lack thereof. Previous waves of immigrants, while bringing some of their best cultures with them like music and food, wanted to become American in every way. And for a few decades now assimilation is almost nonexistent. Simple example is Lowes or Home Depot. All signage, here in CA anyway, is in English and Spanish. I'm sorry I have a major problem if you can't learn simple worlds like doors, windows and bathroom. When I moved to CA over 30 years ago to work in restaurants I had to learn Spanish because they weren't learning English. And they weren't learning it because they didn't have to. I actually enjoyed learning a second language.

 

His argument is utter nonsense. Arab nations and North Africa are backwaters. Next he'll tell me that at one time A THOUSAND YEARS AGO it was the center of culture in the world. Great. What happened then?

Edited February 14, 2017 by joesixpack

[boyst]

Cool story bro.

 

Incredibly ignorant since you don't know a thing about Arab and North African Islamic culture aside from what you saw from Sean hannity

I don't know **** about other cultures. I don't give a **** to. I live in the United States of America. And when you come here you need to learn our culture, our language and our way of life. I don't care if you're a fag smoking Frenchmen, a doctor from Iran or a florist from Singapore. Communication and tolerance go hand in hand. If you can't communicate you won't be tolerated by the mass population. We already have enough trash born here in this country that can barely speak English and work to contribute to society.

 

Trudeau and all of Canada can let in all of these folks from around the world if they're so concerned. They can have their no go zones. They can have entire communities shut down for prayer. They can have ghettos of poor uneducated. We have Al that and we are doing just fine, eh?

 

Your hoity toity holier than thou Canadian viewpoint is not valid when it comes to tolerance in America. We are more tolerant than any other country. We just have the balls to discuss and disagree. Balls are what hang between a mans legs, my understanding is some Canadians may not know that.

[meazza]

 

Is Tunisia as open and inclusive a society as any western democracy? Does it have freedom of religion, equal rights for women (including the ability to choose to not wear the veil despite their husbands' wishes)? Does it have freedom of speech?

 

Yes.

 

A friend of mine who grew up there told me that at roadblocks, the police would pull you over to see if your breath smelled of alcohol. If you didn't you were suspected of being a member an Islamist and questioned.

I don't know **** about other cultures. I don't give a **** to. I live in the United States of America. And when you come here you need to learn our culture, our language and our way of life. I don't care if you're a fag smoking Frenchmen, a doctor from Iran or a florist from Singapore. Communication and tolerance go hand in hand. If you can't communicate you won't be tolerated by the mass population. We already have enough trash born here in this country that can barely speak English and work to contribute to society.

 

Trudeau and all of Canada can let in all of these folks from around the world if they're so concerned. They can have their no go zones. They can have entire communities shut down for prayer. They can have ghettos of poor uneducated. We have Al that and we are doing just fine, eh?

 

Your hoity toity holier than thou Canadian viewpoint is not valid when it comes to tolerance in America. We are more tolerant than any other country. We just have the balls to discuss and disagree. Balls are what hang between a mans legs, my understanding is some Canadians may not know that.

 

My viewpoint is not holier than thou. Don't mistake me for some tree hugger who thinks the borders should be completely open with but don't think I won't call out someone who says another culture is inferior because it isn't or who will all of a sudden support the nutjob right wingers in Europe because they agree with one issue, immigration.

 

Tell me why Le Pen wants Jews to renounce dual citizenship but has no issue with Russians being dual citizens?

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

Yes.

 

A friend of mine who grew up there told me that at roadblocks, the police would pull you over to see if your breath smelled of alcohol. If you didn't you were suspected of being a member an Islamist and questioned.

 

My viewpoint is not holier than thou. Don't mistake me for some tree hugger who thinks the borders should be completely open with but don't think I won't call out someone who says another culture is inferior because it isn't or who will all of a sudden support the nutjob right wingers in Europe because they agree with one issue, immigration.

 

Tell me why Le Pen wants Jews to renounce dual citizenship but has no issue with Russians being dual citizens?

Not all cultures are equally valuable. Some are better, some are worse. Moral relativism is a tired, backwards philosophy.

[meazza]

Not all cultures are equally valuable. Some are better, some are worse. Moral relativism is a tired, backwards philosophy.

 

And that's where we disagree.

[Like A Mofo]

And this is the issue with our current immigration situation. Assimilation or lack thereof. Previous waves of immigrants, while bringing some of their best cultures with them like music and food, wanted to become American in every way. And for a few decades now assimilation is almost nonexistent. Simple example is Lowes or Home Depot. All signage, here in CA anyway, is in English and Spanish. I'm sorry I have a major problem if you can't learn simple worlds like doors, windows and bathroom. When I moved to CA over 30 years ago to work in restaurants I had to learn Spanish because they weren't learning English. And they weren't learning it because they didn't have to. I actually enjoyed learning a second language.

 

I do agree with you Chef Jim. But i do have one comment: Is the fact that America does not have an official language lead to this type of mentality, where I will just keep my language instead of being motivated to learn English?

[FireChan]

 

And that's where we disagree.

You're equal but different to the culture that stones whores?

 

Do you have any self-respect?

Edited February 14, 2017 by FireChan

[boyst]

 

Yes.

 

A friend of mine who grew up there told me that at roadblocks, the police would pull you over to see if your breath smelled of alcohol. If you didn't you were suspected of being a member an Islamist and questioned.

 

 

My viewpoint is not holier than thou. Don't mistake me for some tree hugger who thinks the borders should be completely open with but don't think I won't call out someone who says another culture is inferior because it isn't or who will all of a sudden support the nutjob right wingers in Europe because they agree with one issue, immigration.

 

Tell me why Le Pen wants Jews to renounce dual citizenship but has no issue with Russians being dual citizens?

you are coming off as pretty left if youvdidnt realize it. And I have no idea why she said that. I can't read her mind.

But the tolerance and acceptance of not assimilating cultures is concerning. It will continue to divide our country. It will continue to empower hate speech. And both sides will draw more firmly partisan lines to further distance themselves from the public

[meazza]

You're equal but different to the culture that stones whores?

 

Do you have any self-respect?

 

If I did would I spend time on this board and support the Bills?

you are coming off as pretty left if youvdidnt realize it. And I have no idea why she said that. I can't read her mind.

But the tolerance and acceptance of not assimilating cultures is concerning. It will continue to divide our country. It will continue to empower hate speech. And both sides will draw more firmly partisan lines to further distance themselves from the public

 

That's because you group people between left and right. Some people have nuanced opinions. You should give it a try.

 

She said it because she's an anti-semite and she wants the Jews to leave France and go to Israel.

Edited February 14, 2017 by meazza

[Maury Ballstein]

Is that why she gives the Muslims free reign to terrorize the French Jews ?

[meazza]

Is that why she gives the Muslims free reign to terrorize the French Jews ?

 

Seems to be working:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/22/middleeast/france-israel-jews-immigration/

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Is that why she gives the Muslims free reign to terrorize the French Jews ?

 

The plight of France's jews isn't a french problem, it's a Muslim problem.

 

The authorities there are too afraid of being "racist," which prevents them from cracking down on Muslim communities.

[meazza]

 

The plight of France's jews isn't a french problem, it's a Muslim problem.

 

The authorities there are too afraid of being "racist," which prevents them from cracking down on Muslim communities.

I guess marine thinks it's easier to force them to leave?

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

And that's where we disagree.

This is a position which, when taken to it's logical ends, contends that there is no right or wrong, and that any one individual's perception is in fact reality. It allows that anarchists smashing windows and assaulting people in Berkley are well within their rights, and that ISIS members beheading infidels and tossing homosexuals off buildings are justified. It gives moral license to the atrocities committed by Mao, Hitler, Lenin, and Mussolini. It puts Kim Jung Un on equal footing with Mother Theresa.

 

Backwards. Broken. Tired.

Edited February 14, 2017 by TakeYouToTasker

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I guess marine thinks it's easier to force them to leave?

 

Who? Jews? It isn't french people terrorizing jews.

This is a position which, when taken to it's logical ends, contends that there is no right or wrong, and that any one individual's perception is in fact reality. It disallows that anarchists smashing windows and assaulting people in Berkley are well within their rights, and that ISIS members beheading infidels and tossing homosexuals off buildings are justified. It gives moral license to the atrocities committed by Mao, Hitler, Lenin, and Mussolini. It puts Kim Jung Un on equal footing with Mother Theresa.

 

Backwards. Broken. Tired.

 

THIS.

 

The minute we say it's ok for men in those...shitholes are allowed to treat their women as cattle, we've abandoned all moral authority.

[meazza]

 

Who? Jews? It isn't french people terrorizing jews.

 

 

THIS.

 

The minute we say it's ok for men in those...shitholes are allowed to treat their women as cattle, we've abandoned all moral authority.

 

Funny that's not what I said.

 

Marine Le pen isn't the one terrorizing Jews but she clearly will take measures so that they leave France given that there is a very large population that has both Israeli and French citizenship.

This is a position which, when taken to it's logical ends, contends that there is no right or wrong, and that any one individual's perception is in fact reality. It allows that anarchists smashing windows and assaulting people in Berkley are well within their rights, and that ISIS members beheading infidels and tossing homosexuals off buildings are justified. It gives moral license to the atrocities committed by Mao, Hitler, Lenin, and Mussolini. It puts Kim Jung Un on equal footing with Mother Theresa.

 

Backwards. Broken. Tired.

 

I've been arguing in this thread since the beginning that Arab culture before the Islamists took power was open and free. I have never taken the position that Islamic societies that practice Sharia law are equal to our own.

 

As I mentioned earlier, as Quebec is primarily french speaking, we have a lot of migrants from Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco and Lebanon who often tell me that their societies were open and inclusive and changed at one point which is why they left. Morocco/Tunisia in my opinion still is relatively open but things are changing.

 

That's what I have an issue with.

Edited February 14, 2017 by meazza

[boyst]

 

If I did would I spend time on this board and support the Bills?

 

 

That's because you group people between left and right. Some people have nuanced opinions. You should give it a try.

 

She said it because she's an anti-semite and she wants the Jews to leave France and go to Israel.

the nuanced people allow lepen to be excused because they value her ability to speak freely. The nuanced people allow Hillary to commit major crimes because she has experience in doing so. They allow trump to be a complete jackass because he speaks their dark sided thoughts. They excuse their moralities on the principle of tolerance.

 

How tolerant do you want to be on morals? What kind of backbone do ya have, you frenchman?

[meazza]

the nuanced people allow lepen to be excused because they value her ability to speak freely. The nuanced people allow Hillary to commit major crimes because she has experience in doing so. They allow trump to be a complete jackass because he speaks their dark sided thoughts. They excuse their moralities on the principle of tolerance.

 

How tolerant do you want to be on morals? What kind of backbone do ya have, you frenchman?

 

She's allowed to speak freely but she shouldn't be elected.

 

I don't like Hillary.

 

I don't like Trump.

[grinreaper]

Funny that's not what I said.

 

Marine Le pen isn't the one terrorizing Jews but she clearly will take measures so that they leave France given that there is a very large population that has both Israeli and French citizenship.

 

I've been arguing in this thread since the beginning that Arab culture before the Islamists took power was open and free. I have never taken the position that Islamic societies that practice Sharia law are equal to our own.

 

As I mentioned earlier, as Quebec is primarily french speaking, we have a lot of migrants from Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco and Lebanon who often tell me that their societies were open and inclusive and changed at one point which is why they left. Morocco/Tunisia in my opinion still is relatively open but things are changing.

 

That's what I have an issue with.

Take a look at this and tell us how enlightened predominately Muslim nations want to be:

 

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/

 

Sharia as Divine Revelation

gsi2-chp1-1

In 17 of the 23 countries where the question was asked, at least half of Muslims say sharia is the revealed word of God. (For more information on sharia see text box.) In no country are Muslims significantly more likely to say sharia was developed by men than to say it is the revealed word of God.

 

Acceptance of sharia as the revealed word of God is high across South Asia and most of the Middle East and North Africa. For example, roughly eight-in-ten Muslims (81%) in Pakistan and Jordan say sharia is the revealed word of God, as do clear majorities in most other countries surveyed in these two regions. Only in Lebanon is opinion more closely divided: 49% of Muslims say sharia is the divine word of God, while 38% say men have developed sharia from God’s word.

[Chef Jim]

 

I do agree with you Chef Jim. But i do have one comment: Is the fact that America does not have an official language lead to this type of mentality, where I will just keep my language instead of being motivated to learn English?

 

No. It's because we just sit back and allow it to happen. Of course you can't force people to assimilate we need to make it so they want to be American. You know how we do that? I'll tell ya how.

 

We make America Great Again!!

[boyst]

Funny that's not what I said.

 

Marine Le pen isn't the one terrorizing Jews but she clearly will take measures so that they leave France given that there is a very large population that has both Israeli and French citizenship.

 

I've been arguing in this thread since the beginning that Arab culture before the Islamists took power was open and free. I have never taken the position that Islamic societies that practice Sharia law are equal to our own.

 

As I mentioned earlier, as Quebec is primarily french speaking, we have a lot of migrants from Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco and Lebanon who often tell me that their societies were open and inclusive and changed at one point which is why they left. Morocco/Tunisia in my opinion still is relatively open but things are changing.

 

That's what I have an issue with.

I support open expression of all religion that is legal by the constitution. Allowing anyone to wear a toaster on their head and pray to Ronald McDonald is a-okay by me. But, when you have radicalized religion and fail to blame the religion you fail to blame the problem. It isn't all on religion. But itstarts there and the aability for one to exercise whatever they would like becomes in jeopardy when one side has more power/muscle/guns/money/influence over another. In this country that was Christianity. We built ourselves on those teachings. We believe a little baby was born to a virgin and walked in water. Died and came back to move a big rock and atone for all our !@#$ups. But, just like every other principle religion we have a set of morals and guidelines which to I've by and enforcing those is the institution on which we must base our culture.

 

A somewhat related example. When oshaa comes in to your building to inspect your safety. If your rules transcend their rules and you are found to have broken your own rule though not an Osha rule you are on violation and can be fined. Why not do this to religion? Why let some religion lie, cheat and !@#$ up? Why can't we simply hold individuals responsible regardless of religion skin color sex or culture?

[B-Man]

Geert Wilders Vows to Take the Netherlands Out of EU, Leads Polls Ahead of Election

 

Wilders proposes 11-point programme to “de-Islamise” the Netherlands, end EU-mandated Open Borders

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Geert Wilders Vows to Take the Netherlands Out of EU, Leads Polls Ahead of Election

 

Wilders proposes 11-point programme to “de-Islamise” the Netherlands, end EU-mandated Open Borders

 

This is what I'm talking about! Bring the whole corrupt house of cards down.

[meazza]

 

This is what I'm talking about! Bring the whole corrupt house of cards down.

 

Right:

 

 

 

Wilders has campaigned to stop what he views as the "Islamisation of the Netherlands". He has compared the Quran to Mein Kampf and has campaigned to have the book banned in the Netherlands.^[6][7][8] He advocates ending immigration from Muslim countries,^[6][9] and supports banning the construction of new mosques.

 

Mind you it's wiki but I'm sure you're ok with this.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

Mind you it's wiki but I'm sure you're ok with this.

 

You're damned right I am.

[meazza]

 

You're damned right I am.

As long as your conscience is clear you racist.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

As long as your conscience is clear you racist.

 

Islam isn't a race.

 

It's a set of VERY bad ideas, and one that should be torn apart and thrown away.

 

I'm not afraid of the likes of you calling me a racist.

[meazza]

 

Islam isn't a race.

 

It's a set of VERY bad ideas, and one that should be torn apart and thrown away.

 

I'm not afraid of the likes of you calling me a racist.

 

You know who else wanted to get rid of people of a certain religion?

 

The likes me of? That's funny you bigot.

Edited February 14, 2017 by meazza

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

You know who else wanted to get rid of people of a certain religion?

 

The likes me of? That's funny you bigot.

 

Yes, the likes of you.

 

The likes of a surrenderer to cultural relativism. The likes of someone who lives in a country that has some of the tightest border controls for immigration on earth, but dares to lecture people who live in another country that's had its laws abused.

 

Yes.

The likes of YOU.

 

And again, if you're brought to calling someone a "racist" who disagrees with you...you've already lost.

[meazza]

 

Yes, the likes of you.

 

The likes of a surrenderer to cultural relativism. The likes of someone who lives in a country that has some of the tightest border controls for immigration on earth, but dares to lecture people who live in another country that's had its laws abused.

 

Yes.

The likes of YOU.

 

And again, if you're brought to calling someone a "racist" who disagrees with you...you've already lost.

 

I didn't call you a racist because you disagree with me, I called you a racist because of this:

 

 

 

Islam isn't a race.

It's a set of VERY bad ideas, and one that should be torn apart and thrown away.

Canada has tight border controls? Based on what?

And this statement alone means you have no reading comprehension. Congrats, we'll call you Gatorman:

 

The likes of a surrenderer to cultural relativism.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

 

I didn't call you a racist because you disagree with me, I called you a racist because of this:

 

So, battling against bad, antiquated, misogynistic, anti-democratic religions is racist?

 

Ha, I'll take the label knowing that I'm on the right side.

 

Canada has tight border controls? Based on what?

 

 

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/apply.asp

 

Unless you're a "skilled worker," are going to start a business or are applying to join family that's already Canadian...good luck.

 

What those rules mean is that the vast majority of the 11 MILLION illegal central-american aliens in the US wouldn't qualify to enter canada.

[PastaJoe]

[meazza]

 

So, battling against bad, antiquated, misogynistic, anti-democratic religions is racist?

 

Ha, I'll take the label knowing that I'm on the right side.

 

 

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/apply.asp

 

Unless you're a "skilled worker," are going to start a business or are applying to join family that's already Canadian...good luck.

 

What those rules mean is that the vast majority of the 11 MILLION illegal central-american aliens in the US wouldn't qualify to enter canada.

 

First of all, the position you're taking is against all Muslims and not just the extremists. That's why you're a racist.

 

Second, I have never commented on this forum about Canadian immigration policy and I don't know why me saying that Marine Le Pen and the rest of the European far right are disgusting politicians who hopefully do not get elected has anything to do with American or Canadian immigration policy.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

 

First of all, the position you're taking is against all Muslims and not just the extremists. That's why you're a racist.

 

Second, I have never commented on this forum about Canadian immigration policy and I don't know why me saying that Marine Le Pen and the rest of the European far right are disgusting politicians who hopefully do not get elected has anything to do with American or Canadian immigration policy.

Apologies. I'm crossing over topics, I know you've been a supporter of amnesty in the past. And again I don't see how stating the obvious: that Islam as a belief system is incompatible with secular western society makes me a racist. It's not racism, it's common sense.